The Dragon Demands

Councilor Keeper of the Lore
  • I live in New York City
  • My occupation is Medieval Historian
  • I am Male

Pre-Administratorship Talk-page Archive
User talk:The Dragon Demands/Archive 1


"Wikia will be hosting a panel at C2E2 in Chicago on 26 April. They're flying me in specially for the event (!) and Kristian Nairn will also be part of the panel. "

I wrote up a lot of questions for this when the Wikia Staffers asked us to submit Q&A questions.

I was very excited that Wikia got to set up a panel with cast members like this.

I have been unable to find any major reports or video of the panel.

What was it like? Was any of our submitted Q&A answered?

I don't understand: how was this panel associated with Wikia as a topic?

How did you promote or discuss Game of Thrones Wiki at the panel? What did the cast have to say about it? (we always hope they read our stuff)

You didn't give a report on how the panel went on the wiki so I was unaware what happened. The Wikia panel was almost four months ago, and the only thing you mentioned about it on Game of Thrones Wiki before was three months ago when you loaded that photo of you with Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy):

I wasn't sure what had happened.

Then the thought occurred to check the archives of your WertZone blog, and you did give a brief report there:
"One of the several other hats I wear is the founder and admin of the Game of Thrones Wiki, which has reached a high of 12 million hits per week during this season. Wikia, which runs the whole network, wanted me to join in a panel on the show. Initially it was just going to be myself, Jamie Hari of the Marvel and DC Database Wikis and Alfie 'Theon' Allen, but we were eventually also joined by Kristian Nairn (Hodor) and Natalia Tena (Osha). The actors were fashionably late, which left myself and Jamie to hold down the fort with several hundred fans for the opening minutes.
"The panel seemed to be successful. Alfie talked about the process of playing such a damaged character as Theon and Kristian the various ways the directors have got him to act with such restricted dialogue. Natalia talked about the importance of the TV show as a separate entity to the books and the urgent need for male/female nudity parity in the show. I mused on the fan theory that Littlefinger is turning into Batman (the voice) and we threw it out there that Joffrey had faked his own death."

This is sort of brief and I'm not sure from it how much Game of Thrones Wiki was discussed.

Will you have time to do a more detailed writeup of this event during this weekend?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Adam I asked you about this over a week ago.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:17, August 24, 2014 (UTC)

The panel ended up being rushed due to a lack of firm planning. At one point we were only getting one actor and we only had all three confirmed at the last minute (Alfie in particular seemed uncertain if he was going to do it). We were also told that we were only getting all three actors for the last quarter hour or so, and then we had them for a lot longer. The decision was then made to allow the audience (which was easily 300-400 strong) to ask questions rather than firing questions at them from a long list. The actors didn't stick around for very long afterwards. So it was a bit more of an 'event hosted by Wikia' thing than an event about the Wiki in any real detail. Some fans and readers were in the audience and talked to me about the site afterwards, but we didn't get a chance to discuss the site very much with the actors.

I am also hoping to be able to visit the Wiki more often soon. Six months of both shift work and increased paid writing work in other venues has left me with almost no time whatsoever to work on the Wiki (and you will notice a significant decrease in blog activity as well, and what there has been has been rather brief). This situation looks like easing, at least somewhat, in the near future.--Werthead (talk) 18:42, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

Am I still to create the perfect wiki?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:10, August 25, 2014 (UTC)
I was invited to attend C2E2/this panel but had to cancel last minute :( I hate that I missed it! QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:56, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

GOT Community App

Hey, Dragon! Wikia is in the process of working on a Game of Thrones Wiki community app and we could really use your help! Would you or the other admins mind helping us curate categories for the GOT Community App? The curation lives on this page and there are instructions on there for adding/removing categories that will appear in the app itself. Let me know if you have any questions! P.S. The page says Game Guides right now but that will change eventually! Grace @fandom (profile)•(talk) 21:30, September 5, 2014 (UTC)

Sure! Let me know if you have any questions once you've read it. This essentially is going to be a guide for users about Game of Thrones which is why we need the most important categories listed out for people that want to learn about the series through the wikia. Grace @fandom (profile)•(talk) 18:26, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Wonky sigils, part 2

I'm at a loss as to what is causing this... but one possible fix might be to move them above the infobox, as AWoIaF does. We could even create special shield shaped versions for this purpose.--Ser Patrek (talk) 10:02, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I think I've found the answer: The files size for some of these heraldry images are simply too large, (over 1,000px in some cases) they're overloading the "name" field. Up till now I've just been resizing the wonky ones so they fit again, but now I'm seeing ones that I've already fixed have been displaced again. Obviously we can't just keep shrinking them, as eventually they'll be so small as to be indistinct. I think the solution is to create separate mini versions of the images that can fit in the infobox at their own size, without needing to be scaled down.--Ser Patrek (talk) 13:00, September 7, 2014 (UTC)
Ahh, thank you for figuring that out!!! Talk about driving me nuts! QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:07, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Flags and shields

I'm fixing up the infobox heraldry at the moment, but I had an idea that I wanted to run by you. What if I created special flag icons that are just for articles on locations. Like so.--Ser Patrek (talk) 07:44, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
Well those are fun, but we don't have the "official"...tail design? for every house. Most use the foreground color (Baratheon uses black tails, Bolton uses red tails) but some use alternate colors (Starks apparently use a green tail in the TV version? Or something?)...and I'm not even sure what multi-colored ones like the Tullys would use...
(shrug) might as well use it for the ones we know like the Boltons and Baratheons, etc.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Titancon 2014 World of Ice and Fire reading

Any link to a summary or something like that?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:52, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Starts here:

The reading was from the chapter on Aegon III the Dragonbane, which should give some hints at how the Dance of the Dragons ended.

During the first three fourths of the Dance (what TPATQ covers) Winterfell did declare for Rhaenyra, but House Dustin and House Manderly are also singled out. Keep in mind that Robb Stark could rally an army of 20,000 to head south relatively quickly...and this probably isn't all of the able-bodied men; the North is vast and a point is that it takes a while for them to rally all of their soldiers and get put on a war footing. Specifically, during the Targaryen Conquest, consider how long it took Torrhen Stark to assemble his whole army (the war was already over after the Field of Fire). Anyway, while the North did make major contributions to the war...the "Winter Wolves" led by Roderick Dustin who came south numbered only 2,000 men. This is apparently just the standing household men-at-arms they could assemble at short notice - great and professional warriors, but not every able-bodied man who could hold a spear...AND, the Winter Wolves did a LOT of damage to the Greens, vastly out of proportion to their numbers, before the last of them were killed at First Tumbleton. Cregan Stark was probably just a child at the time, because he later fought Aemon the Dragonknight some 30-40 years later, and Aemon always said he was the toughest opponent he ever faced, plus Cregan did not seem very proactive in the Dance but delegated it to commanders like Roderick (he might not have been a "child",

Anyway, Aegon III came to the throne at 11 years old, but it would be five years until he came of legal age, so a regency council was set up to rule until then - with members chose from both the Blacks and the Greens, as neither side truly won the war. Jeyne Arryn was one, the severely mutilated Tyland Lannister was another, etc.

What we found out in this reading is that:

  • Cregan Stark and the rest of the Northern army finally arrived south, but by then the war had ended (Aegon II died through as yet unknown circumstances leaving Aegon III as the only male heir). Again, the North "contributed" to the war - they sent their best hand-picked men south as "the Winter Wolves" - this was the general army of regular, less well trained but far more numerous guys (okay, this is me speculating). At any rate, Cregan and his Northern reinforcements arrive south to find the war is ended - he is not amused, nor are his bannermen, many of them sons or younger brothers of other Northerners who died earlier in the war. To appease Lord Stark, they decided to make him the new Hand of the King and Regent: he declared that he would hold trials and executions. The "trials" and executions all lasted a single day: he knew who he wanted dead so he had all of their heads on spikes in one day. He did at least give them the option to take the black as an alternative to death, and several did leave for the Wall. He was Hand and Regent it seems for a single day; the day after the executions, satisfied, he began the return journey home. Afterwards they came up with the idea to make a "Regency council" composed of seven members, chosen from both the surviving Blacks and surviving Greens.
  • Most of Cregan's army, however, stayed behind: again, many were younger second sons who were too young at the start of the war, but many still had surviving older brothers/fathers. Some swore themselves to southron lords, others became sellswords, but many became bandits - which was already a serious problem due to the breakdown in public order caused by the Dance itself.
  • Once Aegon III actually did come of legal age, the regency council transferred power back to him peacefully and without incident.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:21, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Programming Question

Hello, TDD!

I wanted to let you know that I sent you an email this evening with some general questions about *potential* future programming plans here on the GOT community. Would love to hear your thoughts when you have a moment to reply. Thanks, ser!

Brian@fandom 02:54, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Yup, I e-mailed back.  I have school tomorrow.  And a big family event Saturday.  Afterwards college is on two week break due to Jewish holidays.  I've been in standby mode the past two weeks because of the start of the new semester.  Plan on launching into numerous major projects within the next few days once I get into the break, please check back frequently.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:17, September 18, 2014 (UTC)


Hi, TDD! I wanted to let you know that I just sent you an email about NYCC. Please take a look and respond by the end of the day today if possible. Thanks, ser!

Brian@fandom 21:16, September 25, 2014 (UTC)

Okay I sent a response e-mail.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:18, September 26, 2014 (UTC)


Hi, TDD.

Saw your note. I'm forwarding that page to the appropriate parties here. Thanks!!

Brian@fandom 01:51, September 27, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, ser.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:29, September 27, 2014 (UTC)

Faith of the Seven brand

Faith Militant mini brand

I've created a Seven-Pointed Star brand for the Faith Militant article, and a mini version for relevant character articles. Would you mind adding it to the High Sparrow article?--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 10:06, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and though I'm sure you've already seen the WotW posts with the photos of the Faith Militant there's was a suggestion in the comments that Loras would be taking on some sort of Lancel-like role. I mean, he was dressed in all black, which he's never done before...--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 10:15, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think those are just Loras's bedclothes, or his undergarments; i.e. he just took his armor off, or his formal tunic off. I see no...specific reason to suspect major changes.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:44, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

...Wait, I'm not sure where to put it in the High Sparrow article. The regular "High Septon" or "Mordane" articles don't use the normal Faith of the Seven sigil anymore.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:59, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

Oh shit, It's worse than that. A new video of filming in Croatia shows Loras being restrained and dragged away by the Sparrows! Looks like he's being arrested for "sword swallowing". [1]. As for the brand, I think it should be okay in Faith Militant character infoboxes as they do wear the scar/brand as outward display of affiliation. Just like heraldry, but more gruesome.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 20:10, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

.......(long pause)

(Jaw hanging open for a minute)

Uh...I'm hoping this isn't a major "thing" and is just an "incident" of "Faith Militant toughs rough up homosexuals at Littlefinger's brothel"....but then the regular City Watch steps in and saves him (possibly part of the same scene I hope for, since "Kissed by Fire"; Loras is in bed with Olyvar but looking annoyed, then he says he's realized he's just "drowning his sorrows" and will never love after Renly, so he wants to join the Kingsguard....then Faith Militant toughs burst in and drag him into the street...then hopefully he gets rescued and joins the Kingsguard.

Crud. This might turn out to actually be a good way to give Loras more to do...IF it has no long-term side-effects. We've never really seen, say...a Septon's sermon preaching that homosexuality is a sin, and Loras looking upset about it (which he probably did at some point in his life). So we get to see Loras facing some real discrimination, fine. So long as it has no lasting effects that drastically alter his long-term storyline.

Oh god.

Oh, you reminded me: "during the Andal Invasion, with the zeal of their new faith, the Andals would carve Seven-pointed stars into their flesh" -- that must be what the TV show is taking its cue from. Good book reference, actually. But I can't tell if they are brands or carved.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:16, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

If Loras is executed... we riot! This is a serious concern because (although we don't know what GRRM has planned for the character) it seems like he's just waiting to die on Dragonstone at the moment. I don't doubt that the seige will be cut entirely. TV-first fans don't care that Dragonstone needs to be retaken, and I can't see D&D spending time and money on a non-essential battle scene... full of expensive CGI and stunwork... not a chance! Much easier to just say that Stannis took his entire garrison North with him, and the Island is now abandoned, and then have Cersei weaken the Tyrells by having Loras arrested by the High Sparrow. We know he's having another scene with Olyvar next seasons, so presumably the arrest immediately follows this. I have no hope for Olyvar... he'll probably be killed on the spot, with Loras, as a high-born taken to the Sept of Baelor to be made an example of. Damn them!--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 11:10, September 29, 2014 (UTC)
Confirmed: The Sparrows invade Littlefinger's brothel. [2].--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 15:20, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Please Read

I've passed your message along to the appropriate people. Thanks for letting me know! Grace @fandom (profile)•(talk) 16:42, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Because I can.

So I'm going to get on your nerves with this, but I don't BAH! But can I pleaseeeee, (or can you) archive your talk page. Man, it takes awhile to scroll through 200+ messages. ;) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:07, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Entirely my fault. Yes, the "cluttered desk" I've got on here. I'll get right on it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:41, September 29, 2014 (UTC)
Woo hoo! Not sure why that peeves me! lol QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:12, September 29, 2014 (UTC)


You are correct in that my contributions to the Wiki have gradually decreased over the last couple of years. This is for several reasons. The most obvious and pressing one is that, being based in the UK, I don't get to watch the show until a day or more after the US release. By the time I have finally watched it and am in a position to edit (which may be a day or two after that, depending on work/life events), US-based editors have already written summaries, included trivia, already worked out the identities of minor unidentified extras/characters and updated all of the relevant character pages. We now have a larger number of contributors and it has left me with effectively nothing to do on a day-to-day basis on the Wiki, even when the show is actually airing.

This is also the case in the administration tasks: by the time I am able to address any particular issue, yourself or someone else has already pretty much dealt with the problem. Since the Wiki is a democracy - my 'Head Administrator' title comes purely from clicking a few buttons a few weeks or months before someone else would have done it anyway and confers no actual leadership role - my constant, day-to-day supervision has not been necessary as the other trusted and efficient admins and editors can deal with other problems as they emerge. In short, I am not needed here as much as in other venues, such as my (considerably longer-standing) role as a moderator on, my own work on my own blog (which you can note has also radically decreased recently), or my paid writing work, which has become more pressing. I have also had significant changes in both my working and personal life recently, such as the move to working from 7am in the morning and for up to 12 hours a day in front of a computer screen, which was dramatically reduced my inclination to spend the few free hours I have each day in front of a computer screen as well.

There is an additional reason why I have not been visiting the Wiki as often: I have been in consultations about a paid writing project which would overlap with the Wiki's area of interest, and I have not wanted to consciously or subconsciously plagiarise the Wiki (I have seen the issue developing with WiC as well) in the development of this other project. If and when that comes to fruition, I will contact you and the other admins privately to discuss this further.

As for my prescence on social media, that has not been as affected because I can do that from my phone in front of the TV. I find doing anything at all to do with the Wiki (or most other websites) on my phone to be awkward to unpleasant, so I do not use it for that.

Please note that I can always be reached by sending a private message via Twitter or's direct messaging service, both of which result in me being emailed. Leaving messages on my wall here will not help very much if it's going to be another few days or couple of weeks before I log in again.

I am, as always, deeply grateful and impressed by the work done by others on the Wiki. But I am not being paid to work on the site and when other matters take precedence and will result in me being absent for a few weeks, than that is what will happen. Obviously now that Wikia are using me as a panel participant on a possibly recurring basis (Chicago looked like it might be a one-off), this may result in an increase in my presence here. If not, I may have to ask them to start using other people from the Wiki instead.--Werthead (talk) 17:44, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

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