Episodes leaked

Just so you know, the first few episodes have leaked. From the screeners, one assumes. They're all over the torrent sites. So we should probably prepare for a lot of people trying to add photos from it, or information from the episodes, which is based on illegitimate means of acquiring the episodes. Anyway, thought you should know. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 02:22, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

BY THE RAGING FURY OF THE *SKY DEMON*, THIS AFFRONT WILL NOT GO UNANSWERED.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:29, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Dear God in heaven...--Ser Patrek (talk) 08:15, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Heads up

HBO Canada aired the premiere last night by mistake - it was all over the fileshare sites before anyone could stop it... - Xanderen signature 12:04, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

.....(Long, silent pause)....


Burn them all.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:24, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Locked page

Why is the season 6 premiere locked? Is it to prevent the spoilers? I wanted to like help out and make a couple tweaks while watching the opening and end credits cause some people may not be included. S hannon434 (talk) 00:42, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

We don't edit live, that gets too messy. We unlock it the instant it finishes airing. Keep notes, that's what I do.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC
Hi I don't know if this is a better pic but I'm gonna let you decide because the Jon Snow page is locked.Do you think this is a better picBrandonnovoa98 (talk) 03:27, June 10, 2017 (UTC)brandonnovoa98
IMG 20170609 113329

Valyrian in The Red Woman

I'm guessing you did not get the email I sent you last night, so let me repeat more-or-less what I said there: I promise you that in the Meereen scene in The Red Woman, both Tyrion and Varys are speaking High Valyrian to the beggar woman—OK, Tyrion is barely speaking any language at all, but he's clearly trying for HV: the first word is cearly supposed to be aōha, HV for "your," rather than ao, the Astapori equivalent (the Meereeneese equivalent seems to be osh, which is even further. I guess it is at least remotely possible that the second word he says is the Meereenese reflex of ipradagon "to eat," but I doubt it). Varys is likewise speaking HV: first sentence is something like zȳha Valyrio *qubēgrie issa (that word for "terrible" is new, so I'm not certain I have it right. We should find out for sure later today), whereas in Astapori it would be more like zya Valyre sa **quveghri(?), and in Meereenese... well, again, even farther.

So, why are they speaking in High Valyrian to what is evidently a very humble inhabitant of Meereen? Well, David J. Peterson has repeatedly said that he views the situation as diglossic. Basically, everyone in Meereen understands High Valyrian, even if only the nobles know how to speak it. He has explicitly compared this to the situation with Arabic today, where nearly everyone learns Classcal Arabic, at least for reading and understanding, but under normal circumstances speaks their native "dialect" (and assumes it's just a degenerate form of the language). Consequently, Dany, Tyrion, and Varys are all shown speaking only in High Valyrian, even when they understand Low Valyrian (Tyrion understands the bouncer in Volantis, for instance, and Dany understands everything Kraznys says), while most inhabitants of Slaver's Bay speak in Low Valyrian (the nobles occasionally use HV, I think, but usually they too use LV) but understand High Valyrian (e.g. Dany's speeches to the Unsullied, and the slaves of Meereen). The only characters shown not to understand HV so far (if I remember correctly) are the two shepherds victimized by Drogon... presumably there is less call for High Valyrian out in the hinterland.

The situation gets even more complex when you take into account the use of Astapori in Meereen, as I mentioned in my email to you, but we can save that for another day.

Anyway, I am really not sure exactly how the text in the episode description should be changed. I made some minor changes last night to indicate that they are in fact speaking High Valyrian, but I really wasn't sure what to do with the rest of your commentary on the sociolinguistic situation, and hoped you could figure out an appropriate way to rewrite that. Unfortunately even my minor edits have been undone since then. I mean, I guess I could go replace the text entirely with something like what I have written here, but it feels inappropriate to just wipe out all your work there, much of which is very good. I kind of hoped you'd help figure out what to keep and what to change.

Kirimvos and/or krimvo (also, whatever it is in Meereenese, but it sounds like *krimwa), Mad Latinist (talk) 17:14, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ack...I see now. Let me get to fixing this up...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:36, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Oh! I should also add that the Red Priest was also giving his sermon in HV (just as the one in Volantis did). --Mad Latinist (talk) 17:15, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

re: Discussion at bottom of articles

Hmmm... Not sure what you mean by "it shouldn't" - it looks to be working as intended. If you're asking whether the feature itself can be 'turned off', I just checked into that, and unfortunately it's not currently an option.

XD1@@fandom 21:25, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
Blast. Well, thanks for your time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:35, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, man. you know I always help when I can...
XD1@@fandom 20:09, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:50, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Trystane Martell

Hello Dragon. I have thought to write in the article about Trystane that he's still alive in the novels but that his death in the TV show could imply that he will die in one of the upcoming novels, would that be allright? --Exodianecross (talk) 18:14, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

1 - We have an article on "Ellaria Sand's coup in Dorne"

2 - NO. Nothing about what just happened in the Season 6 premiere gives us a prediction about the novels. Frankly, it throws Myrcella's death into question.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:52, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Do you think it can be generalized to other characters as well (Selmy, Selyse, Shireen, Myrcella, Doran, Hotah, etc.) - that their death in the show does not necessarily mean they will die in the books too? 06:14, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

They stated that Shireen will die in the novels. Otherwise we don't really have "proof" or even solid clues that deaths in the TV series probably correspond to the books (except maybe for major characters such as Cersei or Jaime; they will be following the broadest strokes). Don't fixate on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:57, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

I have understood what you wanted to say Dragon. Now let's see how it will go on in Dorne. --Exodianecross (talk) 23:02, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

Animals and plants portal

Are you happy with it as it stands? - Xanderen signature 08:53, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Great. Though are there any other more closeup images that can be used for Weirwood trees? current version is too zoomed-out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:27, April 28, 2016 (UTC)
Better? - Xanderen signature 09:12, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
Also, the episode guide on the main page hasn't been updated yet. - Xanderen signature 09:13, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
New Euron portal image. Are animals and plants ready to go up? Euron-Portal Xanderen signature 08:39, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Nav Bar and other edits

The "Oathbreaker" link on the nav bar under Season 6 doesn't lead to that episode page, it just leads to the deleted page with the mispelling. Also 6x04 is called "Book of a Stranger" so you can probably add that as well. Alcasinoroyale (talk) 20:18, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Also, I mentioned this on the talk page for the "Home" episode, but nobody ever changed it. You have the episode written by D&D, but HBO confirmed that Episode 2 is written by Dave Hill. So that's something else to add. Alcasinoroyale (talk) 00:38, April 29, 2016 (UTC)


Wow, I was going to take it personally that you were online and didn't reply; now I understand why it took you five hours to do that. I thought I was on a Davos chapter :3.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought I mentioned Asoiaf Wiki; you know the one that 2 people edit.. Aw yeah it's the topic of this conversation :).

First of all let me tell you that I'm really impressed; you surely deserve to be a bureaucrat admin. Did you have all this information about us in your mind, or did you just make a research? Because I assure you, you missed the conversation when I declined the offer to be an admin. They promoted me anyway, but I'm telling you, they were only bored of me asking them to delete or change the name of a page :P. I still pretend I'm not Admin though.

Surely you think this is irrelevant, but here is the thing.. some people make edits for the fun of it, not the title.

Now let's get back to our topic. I don't mind honesty in people. in fact I love it, so you don't have to apologize :3. The only thing that irritated me is that you read My conversations in My talk page.

All in all I agree with everything you said. I'm aware of most of it, I mean we are half started Wiki and we don't stand a chance against Weteros group. but hey who said we think of it as a competition? Again I personally like editing, then who cares if I'm editing at the top of the world, or some side pit at the bottom!

However, I've just noticed one more thing, I don't know if Weteros group are some self-centered group! but if linking asoiaf Wiki might anger them, then the last thing we'd like to do is cut off the coat tail you're riding. We definitely don't want to pull you down with us.

I'm not trying to insult you. But I get the feeling we're becoming good friends : ).

I'd like to thank you for bringing the Wret boy subject; I can see why you're angry about it.. We should probably file to Wikia asking for the demotion of LordSnow and Werthead; neither serves any purpose as staff there, and their presence as such does make the Wiki more unprofessional.


  • Joe and I didn't put faith in anyone, since there was no one to begin with. We don't feel abandoned.. at least I don't
  • I'm actually deeply upset that you didn't get the chance to get in an international airplane flights paid for by Wikia itself, to attend convention panels in the US, and take Selfie with the cast members in place of the Wret boy. you deserve better.
  • Thank you very much for your offer, I will surely think about it in the future, however I don't think you want me on this Wiki; although it has been very nice and informative to tlk to you, and I've met some other cool and cooperative users such as Xanderen, let alone how active this Wiki is.. Yet I'm deeply sorry; I haven't watched a single episode of GoT.
  • I know, major loss for the Wiki, but maybe when I start the series... since you mentioned an Open Invitation ;)
  • I'll let Joe know about your offer, you can expect an answer any time soon.

I know you think this was hard to read*, but I'm telling you again... I joined asoiaf Wiki aware of the situation I'm in; even Joe wasn't active back then. Maybe you'll find someone like me who thinks it's fun to edit, and not interested in a Selfie with the cast members.. See ya. May Kaiba (talk) 22:20, April 29, 2016 (UTC)

two pics

I added two pictures... and I am proud of those two! I wish I had HBO (for those who aren't aware, I am a psychology student and I am basically broke lol) and could edit more freely. lol I hope you know, even if I am not around often, I LOVE this Wiki and I am here if you need anything, I will always stop in and check on things! I can always be a mediator lol. You guys are the best! QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 05:26, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

Absurdity the key word

What an awesome message, thank you!

I did finally get a chance to view the episode... the following day. :) I was very disappointed in the Sand Snakes as well. It is obvious that Dorne is in chaos and WILL fail/fall from Ellaria's choices. Why kill Trystane? Because he would have been next in line? Simply because he was a male? They could have molded him into being a new, strong leader. Who will take Dorne seriously now? I totally agree with what you're saying on the misogynistic part.

The episode was a little anti-climatic-- though it did update us on most of the characters. I wonder when Bran will come into play, as well as Bronn... where is he??

Seeing a new Khal made me miss Drogo and Jason Momoa... but that is probably just a woman thing. ;)

I thought it was a cool reveal about Melisandre... it shows just how powerful the woman actually is. That said, I really hope she can bring Jon back in some way... his revenge would be so epic! I do hope we get to see Ghost tearing shit up too! haha

I'm sure you read about how the final seasons of GoT will be much shorter. Not sure how I feel about that. :( Actually, I do know how I feel about that... it blows. I don't ever want the show to end... though I don't want it jumping the shark either.

As far as being broke... yeahhh, every college graduate in America is, sadly. I've just signed up to go back to school myself... to get my masters in Counseling. I'm either brave or stupid... I haven't decided yet. haha

QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 18:15, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

Main Page Slider

  • Jon Snow: titled Jon lives or something like that
  • Euron Greyjoy
  • The Three-Eyed Raven
  • Ramsay Bolton: the Lord of Wintefell

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:12, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. Sorry I'm a little behind, end of semester projects combined with large amounts of new material, doing what I can.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:41, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Its alright. Take your time.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:55, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Candidates for Deletion

Paul Andreson - seems to be a typo and/or unrelated to GoT. Can't find any Paul Andreson/Paul Anderson credited on the show.

Pauline Norton - same idea as above. Created by same user too.

Tulla Fyus - once again same idea, same author.

Iron Bank (talk) 05:18, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

The next two weeks are finals at school and I'm finishing term papers. This combined with the already heavy workload from Season 6 means my ability to get to work on here will be sporadic at best (frankly I'm already robbing papers of time by coming on here as much as I am).

I will get to further messages on my Talk page when I have a break between projects.

Thankfully this tight time situation will be over with by the halfway point of Season 6.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:53, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

Quick question - can I start adding the smaller shields and earlier versions of the shields as candiates for deletion? If so, should I just add the category "Candiates for deletion" and then you will review when you have the chance?

As you know, I am particularly focused on cleaning-up the shields on this site BUT I really do not want to step on anyone else's toes. Given that I would be recommending for work by other's to be deleted, I just wanted to double-check with you first before I started.

I would only add those files that were not used anywhere on the wiki. I wanted to start having the smaller versions deleted so that everyone to use the main-shield versions. It's easier to get everyone to use the main-shields if the other versions are no longer available to be used.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:10, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Hammerdown Protocol

Perhaps you can write a short tag or something explaining the Protocol.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:05, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

"Hammerdown Protocol is a scorched earth code-name wherein the U.S. military decides to cut it's losses and destroys, through carpet bombing, the U.S.'s own territories and/or cities that are deemed lost to enemy forces."

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:09, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Let's begin it already and f*ck the do*che.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:12, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Changes to the Main Page Character Portal

I think "Reek" should be renamed "Theon". And with Roose dead, who do you think should be take the new spot? I'm more inclined towards Gilly or Jorah. Any ideas?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:18, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

I was pondering this as well - Gilly or Rickon? Depends on who gets prominently used next episode I guess.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:20, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
I think we should use Rickon. Gilly is always with Sam, and it doesn't look like they will appear much this season, probably only 3 or 4 episodes. I think we should swap Roose for Rickon, but put him in the first row where rest of the Starks are. Blackfish can be put somewhere in the lower rows. --Gladiatus (talk) 12:18, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Television footer

Hi, The Dragon Demands!

Would you be interested in having Game of Thrones added to our television footer program?

Best regards,

Raylan13@fandom (talk) 20:59, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Sigils of Dornish houses

Hi, were you going to delete those sigils we discussed earlier? Just making sure you haven't forgotten :) (And who knows, maybe I'll make another attempt and do the job more properly in the future) --CrappyScrap (talk) 17:15, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Guess that today is

TODAY IS MY NAMEDAY!!!! I MADE IT TO 37, WHAT AN AMAZING FEAT!!!! hahaha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:30, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Great News. But I'm starting to reach the point I realize I'm running out of time. Freaks me out that I'm as old as my mom was when I was born.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:32, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
I think about that too.. that as I get older, it means so are my folks :( Scary thought. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:40, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark, "Kingship" or "Lordship"

Hello Dragon. In "Book of the Stranger" we heard Sansa and Jon talking about the "Warden of the North", there was no mention about the "Kingdom in the North"! Shouldn't the Inbox of House Stark be changed accordingly? It seems that the "Kingdom of the North" with Robb as independent king is more or less buried. Therefore Bran and Rickon are just lords and Sansa and Arya are just ladies! --Exodianecross (talk) 16:33, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Right now they're just fighting for survival and don't have a firm plan. Even in the novels with Stannis in the North, they don't waste that much time debating "is Stannis going to be king over the North or not" once he just starts attacking the Boltons. They'll figure that out later, and so shall we.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:39, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Bastard letter

I think that article should be simplified following our time-honored format: an "in-universe" section for the show version and the "In the books" section for 'book-to-screen' comparison.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:40, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

I tried to do that. I'll move it around.
Actually this was my attempt at consolidation: rather than have a gigantic notes sub-article on "The Red Woman/Mutiny at Castle Black" or a huge sub-section on "Mutiny at Castle Black", or a giant notes section on "The Red Woman/Ellaria's Coup in Dorne"...
I realized it might be easier to segregate off the controversial mess onto its own dedicated topic articles: that is, "Bastard Letter" and "Ellaria's Coup in Dorne" will contain all of the comparisons/differences, so we 1 - aren't redundant 2- don't use up a lot of space for other stuff on the episode articles.
Oh I didn't think the current version was perfect, it was getting the ball rolling.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:48, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
If a "controversy" section proves to large we can have sub-articles (like with the infamous Jaime/Cersei scene) Titled "Article title/fan reaction" or "Episode title/Reaction to XXXXX scene"Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:57, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Er...I think we'll be refining this thing for a couple of days so if anyone doesn't like parts feel free to revise them.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:04, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Back in the Game

Hello again, The Dragon! I've had three previous accounts on this wiki, namely User:Aetherium, User:The Snow Prince and User:Asguardian, so I wonder if you (or any other administrator who sees this) could redirect those articles to my new account? I would very much appreciate it! – Mel Sailor (talk) 06:41, May 17, 2016 (UTC)


Love it!! Thanks for sharing that info. Stuff like that ALWAYS interests me and I Am always looking at the numbers under our Admin link. haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:05, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

Footer Thing

Hey Dragon, I haven't edited a lot lately but I was checking in and noticed the footer thing.

I was looking through it, and I think it's kind of unnecessary and lengthens the home page. It's at the very bottom of the page, which to be honest, I doubt anyone really has any need to go down there, and it appears it would contrast greatly to the color scheme here. That's just my thoughts, it doesn't really matter, but you know, your choice, just my thoughts. How are you by the way? Played the game yet?

Here's a few examples:

Regards, InGen Nate Kenny (talk) 23:17, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

Robb Stark

Do you remember where GRRM made the comparison you mentioned? If we could find it, it should definitely be added to the article. (For the record, of course I agree Robb was a shitty politician xD ) --CrappyScrap (talk) 22:21, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

...not a specific quote, but what comes to mind is the special feature in the Season 5 Blu-ray about "real life history and Westeros" and they talk about how characters were based on King Edward IV of England (Richard III's older brother). And GRRM is one of the commentators. And I mean the comparisons have been drawn before because they're very obvious: young Edward IV was a lot like Robb, this dashing young warrior king...then as Edward IV hit middle age, he hated the business of actually ruling and became this drunken glutton like Robert Baratheon. I don't have an exact quote but it's a point brought up repeatedly: neither Ned Stark nor Robert Baratheon were particularly good at politics despite being good warriors and generals on the battlefield, and like them, Robb Stark ends up getting politically outmaneuvered due to his own failings (losing any potential alliance with the Baratheons, losing the Karstarks, then losing the Freys was his biggest blunder).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:48, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough. It's not that I disagree that Robb was a bad politician, but I felt their failings were different in nature. But if its coming from the big man himself, it's gospel :P Cheers! --CrappyScrap (talk) 11:48, May 22, 2016 (UTC)


Hello I was wondering if Trivia sections could be added to character articles, trivia is a great idea especially when people want to know quick facts about the characters. Just a suggestion. Bree 08:44, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Generally we call those "Behind the scenes" sections, not "Trivia". They go immediately above "In the books".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:49, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Watch this guy!

I've had to undo every one of his edits so far because they are spoilers. Shaneymike (talk) 12:34, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Update from leaks

While I'm already bothering you - is there any rule that prevents me from adding information from an episode before its premiere? --CrappyScrap (talk) 14:32, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Explicitly. It is forbidden to update character articles with information from leaks...that's why they're called leaks!--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:27, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Alright. I felt the spoiler policy was a bit unclear on that, but maybe it's just me :) Cheers, --CrappyScrap (talk) 15:53, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Don't update anything from a new episode until it finishes airing, which is at 10pm Eastern Standard Time. If one of the international broadcasters screws up like HBO Nordic and airs it earlier, that's their fault, not ours.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:02, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

- Copy that. Cyanide3 18:22, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Hello the dragon demands, I was recently banned on my account "zillez" for adding details of an episode before it was released. I now realise that was a huge mistake as it was a spoiler and i had no intentions of trying to spoil he episode and merely wanted to be the first one to edit it. I have now read the rules and will never do something like this again and edit before the official release. I really appriciate and love this wiki and hope you can give me a second chance. Thanks, zillez.

No. You should have known better. You will remain banned as an example. A smarter man would just make a new screenname and pretend that he never edited here before nor refer to this incident again.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:26, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

I actually do feel the rules should be clearer on this point (especially with 10pm Eastern Standard Time in mind). Feel free to believe I'm being the devil's advocate on purpose, but I honestly think it's an easy mistake to make for a keen and well-meaning contributor. --CrappyScrap (talk) 22:07, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
I agree, this is an extreme, uncalled for response - the episode wasn't illegally leaked... it was uploaded by HBO (albeit by mistake). A simple clarification of the rules with a warning not to do it again should be enough... not permanently banning a new, good-faith contributor. - Xanderen signature 09:39, May 24, 2016 (UTC)


Maybe an Indefinite ban is a little extreme for this situation. Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 00:22, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

The taunting was too far - and he'd had warning bans for stuff before that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:27, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

House Mazin

It looks like the unidentified banner at the Battle of the Bastards (blue and white checks and gold rings) will be House Mazin. I'm separated from my personal computer at the moment, so I don't have access to my image editing program, or any of my template files, but I will get started on this when I can (although I don't mind if anyone else wants to have a crack at it). - Xanderen signature 09:45, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

I was wondering that. It's similar to a Stormlands banner so I don't know. Strange.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:15, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

We'll soon find out. Hopefully we'll get canon GLover heraldry as well. - Xanderen signature 10:11, May 26, 2016 (UTC)


Can you do me a favor? I need to add Affiliates somewhere on this Wiki.. It may be and I'm just not seeing it. I thought about putting it on the Nav bar? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:52, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ack. I need to get to this....--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:18, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Favor - Please Delete Old Shield & Banner Files

As you might remember, I have focused on updating all of the pages so that they all use only one version of a shield to bring consistency across the wiki. I have made a lot of progress and a significant number of shields (and almost all the banners) are no longer used anywhere on the wiki.

Can you do me a favor and delete the no longer used shield and banner files (I've added all of them to the category: Candidates for deletion)?

That way we can prevent anyone for re-using these versions in the future. Plus, it makes it a lot easier to see where the old versions are still used if they are not mixed in with all of the shields that are no longer used.

Finally - it looks like almost all of the old versions still being used are part of family trees (with several also being used in the Battle templates, which I am slowly updating). So at some point the family trees will need to be unlocked or someone else with access will need to update the shields.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:30, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

I'll lend a hand in the deletion. And thanks for all the hard work, good Ser.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:17, May 26, 2016 (UTC)


If you are going to delete Victarion, do the same for Willas and Garlan Tyrell seeing how it's the same situation with those pages. Killuminator (talk) 18:33, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

Stark navbox

I was wondering if you could possibly update or give me permission to update the stark navbox please  Bree 16:47, May 29, 2016 (UTC)


I've contacted you some times ago in order to learn how you put links in the middle of a page.

I was talking about this links [[1]]

Can you help me? I'd like to do something similar in my wiki too.


Can you please update the Navbox for House Stark and House Bolton??  Bree 12:21, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

TV series retcon: Daenerys can control dragons?

So does what happened in tonight's episode confirm what I think it means? In the books Daenerys can't control her dragons, but in tonight's episode she's doing just that: telling Drogon where to go, when and where to land, and he's not attacking anyone... DRAEVAN13 01:58, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Did Aegon II tell Sunfyre to come to Dragonstone?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:00, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

New sigils

Just a few quick sigil related matters:

  1. Once again, the art department at HBO have used AWoIaF as a direct reference - the Tarly sigil on Randyll's chest is an exact copy, although the fine details can't really be seen, due to the dim, candle lighting. However, the banner from the Purple Wedding can also be seen on the wall of the dinning room. That being said, I would recommend keeping the Tarly heraldry as it is for now (maybe I could adjust the colors slightly?)
  2. Should I create a new Kingsguard shield with the crown enclosed within the seven pointed star of the Faith?
  3. As I hoped, the trailer for next week gives us our first look at the sigil of House Glover (I'm working on this) with Lord Galbart played by none other than Tim McInnery! - Xanderen signature 12:07, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

1 - I've noticed that and it actually contains some errors.

2 - ...hold off on that until we see where they're going with this.

3 - Oh yes, I jumped for joy at Glovers. No longer will some noob come on every other week adding a fanart Glover sigil.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:28, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Jaime's status

Since Jaime's been removed from the Kingsguard as of the latest episode, isn't he technically Lord of Casterly Rock now? DRAEVAN13 13:45, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

....good question. I think they just removed him as Lord Commander. Dunno.

Memorial Day

Due to the Memorial Day holiday in the United States, everyone is at home using the internet. The whole internet infrastructure is therefore slowed down to a crawl.

My ability to edit for the rest of today will be sporadic at best, in between random points when my internet turns back on.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:49, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Mainpage episode templates need updating...

This is a pretty big wiki so it makes sense they're protected. Its Monday so it should be good for updating.

Anyway, {{Latest episode}} and {{Next episode}} should be Blood of My Blood and The Broken Man.


Can you have a word with this user please? He won't follow the Image Policy and is ignoring his talk-page. - Xanderen signature 21:40, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

any idea

Any idea who this is? I am going through all the pages that need images...and her page perplexes me. She doesn't even have an IMDB page. Thoughts?

Also, Is the Margaery actress really going by "Mummer" ? I don't see that anywhere. I see her casted as "Theatre Troupe Actress Margaery" What do you think? If not Mummer, I need to change up some of her page, and titles of her pics, etc.

QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 20:07, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

This seems to have a good clue:

So probably one of the prostitutes in the brothel that Salladhor Saan was in where Davos found him to recruit him to sail for Stannis. Maybe.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:22, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Just found this:

It says her role was "Courtesan".  Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:30, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Dear dragon demands I would like to make a post on each theory about azor ahai I want to let people know there is more then just he two theories (Dany and Jon) and there are more azor ahai theories out there so permission to write a topic on the list of theories of azor ahai. 22:03, June 1, 2016 (UTC)

Sv Game of Thrones


I am the admin on Game of Thrones wikia in Swedish. I wonder how I make links from this wikia to the Swedish. Kindest Regards K10rca12 (talk) 09:55, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I have repeatedly tried to contact Wikia Staff about this but received no answer. They need to create the ability to interlink. We didn't use to have automatic links to the Japanese wiki, but later they created them.

I'll ask them again.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:45, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Editing "Blood of my Blood"

The edits you made are full of mistakes:

Why do you insist that Sam stabbed the wight in its heart? He did not. That mistake appears on other pages, like the wights page. Read the book and see for yourself.

Patrek Mallister is not "the eldest son" of Lord Mallister.

It is not written anywhere Blackfish has 200 soldiers. Jaime has nerly 1,000, the Freys - 2,000, but how many soldiers Daven Lannister and Forley Prester brought - unknown. So there is no number to divide by twenty. Just because it is written in the ASOIAF wiki, it is not necessarily correct.

Coldhands did not enter the cave - he couldn't for the reasons he and Leaf explained.

And so on.

No one expects you to learn the books by heart, but it can expected to check the books before making the edits - let alone when the editor is an administrator. 15:56, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

As I explained, I wrote the whole thing up in one big burst, offline because my internet was down, and thus I was unable to doublecheck.

Yes Patrek is Mallister's only son.

...I knew Coldhands couldn't directly enter the cave, I must have worded that confusingly.

I honestly remembered Sam as stabbing the wight through the heart, but I will check now...

....AWOIAF says that Blackfish has 200 soldiers. I will have to double-check where they're getting that?

Thank you immensely for the corrections, I can't be everywhere at once.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Okay I made the other three correction, and I just checked: Sam never stabs the Small Paul wight directly in the heart. He was wearing chainmail which turned the blade. I have no idea why I thought this, I must be mentally combining it with some other point when a wight was stabbed in the heart with a normal steel blade.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:36, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


Please write the reason you blocked him on his talk page.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:03, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

He was spamming links to external sites in a long forum post advertisement for a VPN network.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Bad image template/category?

Do you think we could benefit from a bad image template (well, this wiki doesn't do the top-of-the-page thing AFAIK) and category? Just for grainy, badly colored stuff. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:09, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that could help. I won't opposite you implementing one.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:34, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

  • How is "Articles with images of poor quality" for a category name? AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:42, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
...Why not just re-use the existing "Image Needed" category?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:49, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
    • I don't really mind, although I only suggested that in case there was a difference between "Image needed" being just about articles without images at all. In this case it would be articles with bad images. But one for both is fine, imo. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:52, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
My line of thinking is that with only one category we'd only have one to check. And yeah we need hundreds of images. Well, if an image update is badly needed make a post about it on the article's Talk page, that's a quicker way to get attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:00, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'll just go with "Image needed", then, to keep it all in one place. Usually I might just go back and correct a bad image (like Robb Stark), so it's good for reference as well. And I'll start adding to imageless articles, too. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 20:03, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Front Page

Latest/next episode needs updating, by the way. AllHailTheFirstOrder  Sworn to King Renly I 18:09, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Two Speaker Template

Not to burden you with so many questions, but why do we have a template for two speakers anyway? Other places like Wookieepedia are able to use the system like I did with the tag listing the speakers in order, implying so on so forth after it expands past two sentences of dialog. AllHailTheFirstOrder  Sworn to King Renly I 18:54, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

...It's just what we were using. Ask Gonzalo84 I guess.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:41, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

So is there a rule book somewhere or do you just make shit up? Volvlogia (talk) 01:17, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Gets established through consensus and widespread usage on a wiki by wiki basis.

Please don't use foul language (though that specifically is kind of an idiom).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:32, June 5, 2016 (UTC)


I'm back for a bit. I've posted on Gonzalo's wall wondering if I could have my admin rights restored please.--Opark 77 (talk) 18:13, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

(I've been distracted lately sorry for late reply)

Oh you're back? Dear god yes, thank you. Yes we'll restore your Administrator status. We're always short handed and more busy the more popular the show gets.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:21, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

EnglishJoker blocked

I have temporarily blocked EnglishJoker for an insult at the Jon Snow edit summary. 3 months because last time he was blocked for 1 month. Your input would be appreciated.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:34, June 8, 2016 (UTC)


My cat is dying of kidney failure.

I raised her since a kitten and have lived with her for almost twenty years.

I spent the afternoon digging her grave myself in the garden.

I'll be putting her to sleep tomorrow.

I'm not going to take this well at all. I'm still stunned and wobbly.

I may be absent for some time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:54, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Really sorry to hear this, dude. My genuine thoughts are with you having been through this myself. Take care. Ruby Doomsday (talk) 15:10, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
That's awful. We had to have our cat put down about 3.5 years ago and it is really trying. Remember you are sparing them suffering. Be back when you are ready. We'll be fine until then.--Opark 77 (talk) 20:31, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

He became a shell of a man, a burnt-out desolate man, a man haunted by the demons of his past, a man who wandered out into the wasteland.

And it was here, in this blighted place, that he learned to live again...

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:52, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Awww, just saw this and sorry to hear it. Twenty years?! WOW! How blessed you were to have 20 years though!! It is so hard losing a pet baby. My thoughts are with you.

I've been dealing with a lot lately as well... was diagnosed with Hashimoto's Disease...another life changing thing to go through. Ugh. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:19, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Main Page Noble Houses Template

I think we should remove the Whitehills and Forresters and add Houses Glover and Manderly. We have Hiuse Hornwood even though House Royce has been more prominent.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:56, June 13, 2016 (UTC)

House of Lennister

Hello The Dragon Demands. I wanted to ask you to edit Template:House Lannister family tree. Trystein is dead but in the template he is still alive.--Bolter21 (talk) 15:23, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

"Update all family trees" is indeed a major item on my "To Do" list when my work week ends this evening.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:24, June 16, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick answer. I was about to do it but I can't beucase the page is protected. Seems like this was raised already on the 23rd of May. Thanks--Bolter21 (talk) 15:29, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Failed betrothals in family trees

I think they should be removed from family trees, specially since we use the same type of line as with lovers/paramours Might give the impression that Catelyn was Brandon's mistress prior to marrying Ned. These are family trees, not relationship charts--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:58, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Brynden Rivers

Did you know that the Brynden Rivers page has been locked since 2014? 2014?! That is waaay too long, I think. Lord Sharky (talk) House-Bolton-Main-Shield PINK is the new Black 18:21, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

We kept thinking they'd reveal it as a spoiler.

Now that seems unlikely, I will unlock the page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:43, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Holidays and Festivals page

Hey, I noticed that you removed the Dothraki section on my new "Holidays and Festivals" page. What's up?

Gotlvr87 (talk) 20:55, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I just saw the email alert with your comment "that isn't a festival". I guess that makes sense (it's not really meant to "commemorate" or "celebrate" anything), but I still think it was good for the page. If anything better comes up in the future I'll re-insert the section.

Gotlvr87 (talk) 23:03, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Pics uploaded

What are you talking about now? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:28, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I re-posted the photo of Tally Tarly at dinner, with (I hope) the proper attributions. Mattgb1 (talk) 18:33, June 17, 2016 (UTC)mattgb1

Asha/Yara's sexual orientation

The reference that's meant to link to GRRM's answer in his "Not A Blog" links to a thread discussing the Season 6 trailer.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:55, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

Odd...I think it's because I posted the Not a Blog link within that thread. Must have cut and paste the wrong thing.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:02, June 18, 2016 (UTC)


Care to change the poll now? I can't think of a single question. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 07:19, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Favorite Battle in the TV series ever:

  • Battle of the Blackwater
  • Fall of Astapor (Season 3)
  • Battle of Castle Black
  • Massacre at Hardhome
  • Battle of the Bastards
  • Second Siege of Meereen (Season 6)

Any I might be forgetting.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 08:13, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Oops just saw this. Let's do this during off season for sure. We'll be changing the one up soon anyway, with "What did you think of Season 6" poll. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:00, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Blocking policy

Hi The Dragon Demands,

I apologise for troubling you but I just wanted to raise something that might sound difficult. I notice that you and the other administrators seem to have a tough policy of blocking several anonymous users infinitely. I am aware that they have committed vandalism, spamming, and other unacceptable behaviour. I don't condone such actions. However, I am concerned it might sound pretty harsh because those are public accounts which get swapped around depending on the IP address. Perhaps, we could have a formal blocking policy guideline like what Wookieepdia has.

Let's say a maximum of three or six months for anonymous users as a suggestion? I occasionally edit here. Have been editing quite a lot with Season 6. Please don't take this criticism personally. I appreciate the hard work that you and the other admins have put into make this Wiki a credible online encyclopaedia for everything Game of Thrones. It is just a suggestion from an outsider. Perhaps, this is something you should discuss with the other administrators and the community. Please feel free to leave a message on my talk page. Andykatib 09:55, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I have already replied to this, so it is a closed subject and don't worry with it. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:52, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, IP addresses shift after a while; may be better to block those for 1 year and not infinite.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:52, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

I have sent you a raven

Please check your personal email. :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:51, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

blocking policy

So I wrote up a quick blocking policy, however I cannot figure out how to put it on the nav bar. Where do we edit the "On the Wiki" section. Every other section you can edit/find, but that one. I'd like to put it there. Any ideas? here's the policy. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:33, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

The Forsaken


I just finished reading the released "Forsaken" chapter. If you need the link it is:

I think that in view of the information revealed in that chapter - about Balon's death, that Euron committed three kinslaying, what he used to do to Aeron and Urrigan, etc. - the "In the books" section of the pages of Euron, Aeron, Balon and kinslaying should be updated. Maybe not about Aeron's current status because it is kind of spoiler (I'm not sure), but at least about the fact that the books finally reveal who killed Balon. Since those pages are locked I can't do the edits. 12:31, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I read the Forsaken stuff when it came out the other week. I just didn't get around to updating everything yet, we're busy with the end of the TV season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:42, June 22, 2016 (UTC)


Hi. Im a new user on the wikia. I uploaded some images for "The Winds of Winter" but it's locked. Since your a Beaurecat, I was wondering if you could upload them onto the page for me. Thanks

Lola987 (talk) 15:09, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Load them up into a "gallery" format on the Talk page for the episode, it makes it easier to cut and past them all in at once.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:11, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Please check your own talk page Lola987, as I left you a message about our image policy here. You uploaded every image that is already on the page, therefore I had to delete yours. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:19, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Brynden Rivers

You giving you a heads-up the Jman321 has changed Brynden Rivers to Bryden Targaryen even though he didn't use that name. I don't know how to switch it back. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:24, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Lost my mind perhaps?

I'm going through all the un-categorized images on the wiki..slowly but surely.. and deleting the pics that aren't on any page/being used. I'm on a mission now!!! haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 08:53, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

"We do not do this thing because it is permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we are compelled"--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:48, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Uncategorized Pages

Hmmmm... went to go do more work, and I find THIS. Any idea what that means? Or what happened? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:55, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ooops never mind. I had it wrong. I was working on Uncategorized images.. not pages. :) Problem solved. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:57, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Going to kick your butt! There are so many images you use in your costume pages that aren't licensed or categorized. SOOOOO not like you! hahaha. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:49, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

I remember. I was rushing to get it all done.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:01, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Your death list

Just thought I'd drop by to give you a friendly reminder to cross Ramsay off your list of your death list.Shaneymike (talk) 04:20, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

I didn't exactly enjoy the poor writing that lead to his death in the TV show.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:08, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
Poor writing?Shaneymike (talk) 10:51, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
Poor writing. All elements of Ramsay antagonizing the North's lords like the Manderlys who will eventually turn against the Boltons were removed. Instead they invented that Ramsay raped Sansa, anticipating that this would therefore make his death more satisfying...that's just simplistic, lazy writing.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:47, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Image alignment

Image thumbnails are supposed to be evenly distributed throughout the article, correct? Left, right, left, right, and so on. Not all aligned to one side of the page? - Xanderen signature 09:00, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Generally. You're supposed to use your own judgement, though, as in some cases it might bust up the paragraphs in a weird way or it would make sense to stack two together for comparison - obviously it doesn't work on short pages, etc. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:45, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

If I could interject quickly... we usually try to keep all images aligned to the right. It just looks neater, makes paragraphs easier to read without images on the left breaking things up. Hope this makes sense. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:39, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Post Season 6 To Do List

My vaunted "To Do" list of ongoing tasks on a years-long timetable for the wiki as a whole is separate, and already on my userpage.

This is just a quick rundown of particularly major things which need to be updated which came up in Season 6.

Notice that I don't really focus on character pages such as "Jon Snow" or "Sansa Stark" philosophy is that 1 - People know to edit character pages and episode articles, but casual editors are less likely to put in the effort to edit wider stuff, 2 - The main character pages such as Jon Snow and Sansa Stark have been "laying fallow" for a few seasons now, without oversight, and "fix up the character articles" was already a major item on the Overall To Do List before Season 6 began. So Season 6 didn't really change that very much, that's happening later.

Because I was busy with school then death in the family, here's what needs to be done:

First, need to go through all interviews and information materials, which I lost track of. Straightforward though tedious: I went through's news archive and make a list of links to every interview or behind the scenes report which I need to read. This season they split up the "Inside the Episode" features: instead of being 10 minutes each, they now have 3 minutes focused purely on Benioff and Weiss interviews....then the behind the scenes production type information is segregated into new, separate "Behind the Throne" videos, one for every two episodes (because every two episodes had the same director for each). Also, briefly, Peterson's language notes posts, which he did briefly this year on Tumblr. This is all straightforward data-mining, though it is time consuming. Thus:

  • All Season 6 interviews
  • All Season 6 production videos
  • All language notes posts from Peterson

Next we have several large action set pieces, battle articles. The battle article series as a whole has also been "laying follow" since before Season 6 and was a major item on the main "To Do List" anyway, so we don't need miracles here, just a decent job while sifting out the weaker edits from when dozens of people were trying to write on them all at once:

  • Battle of the Cave of the Three-eyed raven
  • Burning of the khals
  • Second Siege of Riverrun
  • Second Siege of Meereen
  • Battle of the Bastards

Next we get into the hardest ones: major thematic updates:

  • Bastard letter - meant to be our "in the books" summary for all the changes to the Mutiny at Castle Black arc, instead of repeating ourselves on every page, we link to this.
  • Ellaria Sand's coupe in Dorne - meant to be our "in the books" summary for all the changes to the Dorne arc, instead of repeating ourselves on every page, we link to this.
  • Tower of Joy flashbacks
  • Melisandre (with updates about her age reveal in the premiere)
  • Night King/origin of the White Walkers
  • Little birds
  • Hodor
  • Kingsmoot
  • Update all family trees and make sure they conform to standards
  • The Bloody Hand/Mummers pages
  • Timeline issues

Also some minor updates:

  • Lyanna Mormont (a popular page)
  • Castle Cerwyn
  • Meribald/Elder Brother/Ray
  • Sam as a maester and Oldtown (probably more of this in Season 6 finale)
  • Abe Lincoln viz Tyrion
  • Is Daenerys fireproof, or did they just really want to split one scene into two scenes?

These are what will be worked on in the first week or two after the finale. Then I move back on to the main, overall "To Do" list.

At the end of the main "To Do" list (which was nearing completion before Season 6 began), we move on to major review and refinement of every character page (House pages count as character pages). These are meant to be quick: not definitive versions, just cleaning up what we already have. I.e. no "research", no rewatching episodes to see what Jon Snow does - purely reading the Jon Snow article and making sure the grammar is coherent. This is meant to be a quick fix task instead of lasting all summer, or even until Christmas break.

And then, my god, we'll be at the point I've been hoping for since Season 3: actually rewatch the show from the beginning of Season 1, one episode at a time, slowly analyzing every aspect of each episode - we were sort of able to do this in Seasons 5 and 6 but much of Seasons 1 and 2 the wiki was still relatively small and we were writing basic stuff like "this is what 'Meereen' is". Actually start with the histories and lore from Season 1 onwards - it's basically five episodes worth of material much of which we already covered, so doing that first just to be definitively done with all of it, exhausting all possible information. Then I move on to episode by episode. I've never listened to any DVD commentary I can't afford them, but I'll grab a copy from my library.

I don't think I'll probably be finished with the episode rewatch project by the Season 7 premiere next February, but maybe nearly so. And the idea is to tune up the relevant other articles like character pages as I advance episode by episode (i.e. rechecking the Theon article when watching Season 2). To be honest, I didn't watch Season 2 very well; Season 1 a family member downloaded, Season 2 I watched half as streaming and half as youtube clips, and only by Season 3 did a family member lend my their HBO Go password to be able to watch normally. So there's a lot of stuff from back in Seasons 1 and 2 which remains buried and escaped notice.

The goal is to finish everything by next February when the next Histories & Lore comes out, but I don't think I'll get through that many seasons by then, or even by the Season 7 premiere itself. But we will be nearly so. Next summer we'll be totally caught up.

I don't know. The ultimate goal of course is to be in such a state of readiness that I can sit down and re-read all the novels from the beginning, I haven't in years. It will provide a lot more context and information.

At this point yeah there are only two seasons left, but you plan how to win tomorrow's war during today's battle. I no longer see Game of Thrones as "a TV show" but as a franchise, and this is preparing the wiki for the inevitable prequel projects: a Dunk and Egg TV series and maybe a Dance of the Dragons prequel series.

Patiently working on "the plan" as I've been since late Season 1 or so. Like Hari Seldon's Foundation, the plan continues.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:58, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Jon's parentage

I think all this talk of Jon marrying into the Stark family to secure the North on the "Winds of Winter" page might be a bit premature. Only Bran knows about Lyanna having a child, so unless he makes it back to Winterfell no one but Bran will know the truth. I think we should wait until next season for that. DRAEVAN13 16:21, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Well yeah, it's only talking about possibilities.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

chill out about the men😂

Based on facts on the iron islands, Pyke and the rest of the regions, and if you look extensively into their lore, you'll find that they are generally capable of raising around 10,000 men, these facts are easy to find mate...

If they're that easy to find, quote them, or I'm going to ban your account. That isn't how wikis work.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:52, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Greyjoy Military Power

It turns out I was actually wrong, but the Iron Islands are actually capable of raising up to 25,000 forces. Quite surprising actually, and in one of the more "obvious" sources for this,can be found at this link: But the problem is that there are so many sources and sites for this that it is impossible to link them all, search them for yourself if you like. --Thekingindanorf7 (talk) 18:07, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

ps. please don't ban me, it looked empty without showing how many forces the Greyjoys could muster, I simply wanted to fill in the holes, but that time I was wrong.

1 - Leave this blank, do not attempt to add it back, but I won't man you for it.

2 - The numbers in AWOIAF desperately need to be updated; read their source citations; they're citing a decade-old RPG game which was semi-canon to begin with; we don't trust those numbers. Only use a direct reference to the novels.

So really just avoid the "Military Strength" stuff for now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:15, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

I'll leave the Military strength alone

Ok thanks :) I'll just use this site to research game of thrones rather than edit.--Thekingindanorf7 (talk) 18:18, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

If I may. I am well aware the edits on the Rhaegar Targaryen page are getting annoying, but reverting my edit completely removed him from the Family listing once again as I had added it back after some edit war of several other users adding him in and out a whole bunch of times. May I suggest to just officially list him as "bastard son" or "possible bastard son" and lock the page from edits? Otherwise users like sharky will keep removing every single edit done adding him in, and sharky is well known for going on people's nerves by just removing edits all the time because there might be a small possible chance the content of the edit is not 100% correct, like in this case Rhaegar is 99% likely the father of Jon, but not necessarily, it hasnt 100% been confirmed. BUT. Based on this way to argue you could list benjen stark as "possibly deceased" because he has not been confirmed to be alive after the episode. He might have been hit by an asteroid minutes after leaving bran. Thats the kind of edit fight we're facing here. Never seen Sharky do an edit going as far as this, but he has gotten quite close to it already actually. but i dont want to point fingers, its not just him, many users do that. Anyways, sorry to have bothered you. I know the whole story can be quite annoying, edit wars on many pages after every single episode... Shado47 (talk) 18:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

New Main characters portal

For the future:

  • Jon - Sansa - Bran - Arya
  • Cersei - Jaime - Tyrion - Littlefinger
  • Dany - Varys - Ellaria - Olenna
  • Sam - Tormund - Davos - Brienne
  • Theon - Yara - Euron - Sandor
  • if there are empty spaces: Gilly - Beric - Thoros.

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:36, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Eventually yeah; need a week or two for people looking up characters who died in the finale.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:35, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

We have 25 slots, six major characters just died. Olenna and Ellaria are back in as faction leaders, and might as well put Edmure in there too as major surviving Tully.

Candidates for thre three remaining spots are:

  • Missandei
  • Grey Worm
  • Gilly
  • Bronn
  • Qyburn
  • Gregor
  • Meera
  • Podrick

Going by the general rule of "don't double up related characters it wastes space"...Podrick is kind of with Brienne a this point, Meera is with Bran, ah crud they're all "with" someone else.

Bronn has been recurring so long and is popular enough that he deserve a slot.

The other two I'm not sure: Qyburn is important now, Gregor to an extent, albeit they double up with Cersei. Gilly kind of deserves one for being a recurring character for so long. Plus Missandei and Grey Worm deserve some time in the sun, tough choice.

....whimsically I'd go with Gilly, Missandei, and Grey Worm, just because people like them more and they're distinct enough.

I'll replace them next week once finale blows over.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:41, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Jon's Page

I opened it for about 15 minutes while I was on, but then locked it up again. You may want to do the same, it's up to you... there is just so many people wanting to add stuff that shouldn't be'll have to keep an eye on it. I went ahead and allowed his father "Rhaegar - speculated" in his infobox, since it is obvious Ned isn't now. I just don't want too much of it coming off as a spoiler, like changing his last name to Targaryen, etc. lol. I'm sure you'd agree. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 04:00, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

I just finished up the episode notes. Moving on to Jon when I get home from interning today.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:10, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
I made some corrections on the article intro, which looked a bit cumbersome so I separated it into two paragraphs. Then I added another paragraph bout his true origin in the Background section.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:04, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
If I may interrupt - will the users be able to contribute to or comment on any of these changes being made (prior to the unlocking, I assume)? I cannot really tell if you're going for a full rewrite, or just some quick changes in the intro paragraph and the infobox. Reddyredcp (talk) 18:00, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I just haven't been able to turn my "full attention" to it; a dozen people rewriting it leads to a pile up. Going to sit down tonight, straighten things up, and then just keep track of every subsequent edit in case someone puts in something poorly written.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:43, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Article changes - your input

Hi Dragon, Not sure you remember me - been off awhile, now I'm back regularly. I have made some changes to the [Gregor Clegane] and [Benjen Stark] articles, after giving detailed, supported and justified reasons on the relevant talk pages. As one of the top admins on the wiki, and as the person I usually look up to when it comes to making edits, I would like to hear your input on it. It is obviously not a priority, but if you had a few minutes to spare for an opinion on the matter I'd appreciate it. I hope you agree with me. Thank you!

Best, --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 13:18, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

...according to your contributions tab, you joined the wiki in June 2015, made a handful of edits almost all of which were on your own profile page, and then disappeared for a full year.

Wow, NO, I do not "remember you", and it is ridiculous of you to think I would on a wiki of this size. ONCE AGAIN, you are obsequiously making direct messages to Admins.

The Gregor Clegane Talk page wasn't detailed and supported it was a farce. You started editing it during the height of the post finale editing boom, few people could take part in the conversation because we were focused on Jon Snow, ADMINS weren't able to take part in the discussion - me included - then you self-declared that "a lot of people decided to make these changes".

Wow. No, the Gregor Clegane infobox will use current imagery. Two or three people agreeing with you isn't "a lot of discussion", and the wiki was obviously too busy with other matters for a full discussion to take place.

Now a week has passed and I'm on cleanup duty, finally addressing your edits.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:06, July 6, 2016 (UTC)


WOW!!!! OMG! I feel like we need to tell staff or something! haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:06, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Why not? It reminds them we do this for free, you know. But I need to get to the Jon Snow article now that I'm done with the episode article and i'm back from internship in city.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:08, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
That damn Jon Snow article is going to be the death of me. UGH. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:10, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Why's that a specific problem? I mean it's a lot of work but I should be done later tonight.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:23, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
The specific problem was editors hounding me to unlock it... when given the reason I couldn't.. that didn't suffice and I got more of an earful. It was just tiring. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:24, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
This editors complaining, some requesting it to be locked and others requesting it to be unlocked. For the love of R'hllor! Thanks the old gods most of them won't last too long because they are the "knights of summer" and winter has come (at least in the southern hemisphere). Meanwhile have filled the Jaime Lannister and House Lannister articles with warnings not to add Tywin's titles. And now we have this "House Lannister of King's Landing" nonsense.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:01, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Deceased Characters

Hi there,

I'd just like to know if it is right to change the recently deceased characters descriptions by changing is to was, like "This character was a major character in seasons 1,2,3 etc. They were played by this actor." And also I just want to ask wether the targaryen sigil like your avatar is ok for me to use in my signature, or if it is against wiki policy, since I tried to upload the image and noticed one like it had been removed already.


  Wikia User | RedstoneDemigod | Fire and Blood

12:18, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Which Targaryen sigil?

For the moment that's the tense we use: "Loras is a character in the TV series" because that includes Season 1. We may be reevaluating that later this summer but it will be a massive overhaul. Stay tuned.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:31, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation. And this Targaryen Sigil. Screenshot 2016-06-29-17-54-32

Wikia User | RedstoneDemigod | User Talk

15:56, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

"Magic" page

I've been wanting to add something about the Rhoynar's "water magic" to this page for a while, but editing doesn't seem to be an option. I also think there's some good info. from the ASOIAFW that can be added without any spoilers. What is the policy on this page?

Gotlvr87 (talk) 13:48, June 29, 2016 (UTC))

Hold off for now; now that season is over going to finally get to major updates for all things considered background; you'll know it when you see it, check back soon.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:47, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark and Targargyren family tree's needs updating

Hello, I've noticed that both the Targayren and Stark family trees are largely out of date, and they haven't been update to show the new information concerning Jon Snow's parentage. Besides that, there are others reasons as to why they are out of date, specifically in the Targayren family tree which doesn't even the Targayren family members relating to the Dance of Dragons and Aegon the Conqueror which were 'introduced' in the show canon in the Season Five Blu-Ray Histories and Lore videos.

Anyways, I believe needs to be unlocked and changed. 

Thank you, Nerdman3000 (talk) 15:09, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

How I worked in order:

  • 1 - Write season finale episode article Notes - done
  • 2 - Rewrite Jon Snow article - mostly done
  • 3 - Update family trees - current task.

I have to sleep sometime.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:02, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

How do you edit when a page is locked house Targaryens lord is not Jon snow and I want that to change. Thanks Dragonsbeatwolves (talk) 17:02, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

I had to do internship work and family stuff all week since episode aired - when I stayed up all night each night writing up the episode notes for finale, then Jon Snow page.

Now I'm free with fourth of July holiday weekend.

...I half-seriously wanted to go through "recent changes" list since the season premiere but now dismiss this out of hand as absurd.

New goal is to go through recent changes since Sunday, to rein in the confusion caused by the new editor boom post-finale.

Then systematically work on all significant changes from finale itself. I've barely been on the wiki since Monday.

But these are solvable problems.

Really, it's just a question of reassembling the components in the correct sequence.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:45, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Lord of House Stark

There's an ongoing discussion of the head/lord of House Stark. Here's the thread link: Add some input, there's a poll too for those who love voting. Admins, there's an edit war, your involvement in the thread is recommended. Sorry for your loss, The Dragon Demands --Kai200995 (talk) 15:39, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Page names.

Personally, I don't think we should rename pages just when someone becomes known as something else. For example, Lancel Lannister and Lorad Tyrell are now known simply as "Lancel" and "Loras". That's pretty stupid, because yes they renounced allegiance to their family and titles, yet everyone who has met them will know them for their full name which they have since birth. It also keeps the wiki looking more professional and informative. If, say, Robb Stark were to committ an atrocious mistake, and be kicked out of the House, stripped of his name and titles and called "Idiot" by everyone it's not like we'd rename the page as such and describe him as "Idiot, formerly Robb Stark". I know it's a stupid example but its just a thought which I think merits debate. The pages of everyone should remain to their original identity. I also saw awhile back you wanted to rename the Theon Greyjoy page to "Reek". That wouldn't have been good because A. Everyone knows him as Theon Greyjoy, and that's how he was born, and B. Reek was just a name his torturer gave him. I also saw somewhere else that you said pages should be names according to what people are known, not their true name. This was on the Jon Snow Talk page. I think what people are known as is irrelevant, their real original name is important. If, say, I joined a religious order which requires me to abandon my family name, my documents would still have my full, original name. Likewise, if my name was Jack White but I was known as John Blue, my original, used name would still be Jack White. Just a thought and I just hope we can talk it through.

Best, --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 00:36, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Our model, A Wiki of Ice and Fire keeps family names (like "Luceon Frey" is the article for Septon Luceon or "Theomore Lannister" for Maester Theomore)--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:26, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly, which is why the Loras and Lancel pages should be renamed Loras Tyrell and Lancel Lannister. It's still who they truly are. Also, the Smalljon Umber page should be called "Jon Umber". That's his name, we don't have Jon Snow listed as the White Wolf just because people call him that.--EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 09:14, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

It's ridiculous to change Loras's page from "Loras Tyrell" to "Loras" given that he renounced his inheritance a matter of minutes before his death.

While we're at it I always opposed renaming "Lancel Lannister" to "Lancel" due to the fact that he dropped his name midway through the TV series's run. I think it makes it easier to find if we just call it "Lancel Lannister".

...indeed, I also think we should just retitle articles as "Greatjon Umber" and "Smalljon Umber" and note within the article that this isn't the character's real name but a common nickname.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:42, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

The viewer's guide has them both as "Lancel Lannister" and "Loras Tyrell". In Loras' case, he didn't formally renounce his name, just announced his intentions to do so, and under extreme duress. - Xanderen signature 11:04, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Good to see all agree. Loras and Lancel pages will then get renamed to Lancel Lannister and Loras Tyrell, as per full name. The Smalljon Umber page will be renamed Jon Umber, and Greatjon Umber will also be renamed Jon Umber, with the articles mentioning their respective nicknames of Smalljon and Greatjon. In essence, all pages should be names with the characters TRUE, ORIGINAL and FULL name, regarldess of changes or nicknames. Unfortunately I am not an admin, or else i'd personally do it. If someone pf such competence could get on it i'd be grateful. Thank you --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 13:52, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

another admin?

I was just looking over some of Ser Shield McShield's work, and even though he's been here a short time, he seems very competent. What would you think about asking him if he'd be interested in being admin? Maybe ask if he's been Admin before on another wiki? Do we need another admin? Don't we only have 3 of us active right now? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:34, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah he seems cool.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:19, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and extend the invitation. He is needed. What about User:Xanderen? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 17:26, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Actually I was about to suggest Xanderen as well, I only hesitated because I didn't know if you thought we needed another one. But yeah we're pretty busy now we need more qualified hard-working mature guys on the team.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:34, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Character navbox

Any thoughts on how to proceed with this? We've lost: Blackfish, Tommen, Margaery, Walder, Kevan, and Ramsay. I guess Olenna can replace Marg, and... Ellaria could go back (I hate saying it). Not sure about the others. - Xanderen signature 10:04, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I've also sorted the Manderly and Reed portals - Man-PortalRee-Portal.
Would you be able to replace Jyanna Reed's family tree icon? The correct file is "House-Reed-Square.PNG. Thanks! - Xanderen signature 10:26, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Missing user

Hi Dragon, A general question - I hope i don't disturb you, but do you have any idea what happened to Ser Patrek? I remember when I first joined up I quite liked his edits and I was always looking at his contributions as models to my own when i was first learning. He also helped me a lot, teaching me and finding my way around. I wanted to go and say hi, that i was back but i found his userpage deleted and he never replied to me, i messaged him a few times. I just wanted to know if you knew anything, or if he left or whatever.

Thank you --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 16:40, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

He never told us, though he'd mentioned in the past that he was worried about cyber-stalking; indeed, he even changed his username once before due to cyberstalking problems. I can only assume this was the reason; he left very abruptly.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I'm really sad to hear it; i had great respect for him. Does this leave a vacancy for admin?--EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 20:22, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Technically there's no upper limit for Admins; it's how many people we think are capable enough to trust them with the powers. The basic qualities are do a lot of work over an extended time period and eventually, "hard work gets rewarded" if you ask.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:48, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Got you. Well thank you very much, I do hope he's alright. Anyway, now that I am done with exams and have summer plus a gap year, I will be on here 90% of the day! I look forward to working with you. See you soon!

Best --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 09:38, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Please return

In hindsight, and looking at what I wrote, I probably should have been nicer to Gonzalo after everything that was going on. It wasn't my intention to target any admin when I said some stuff, I was just a bit annoyed at the time being without context for the situation. I hope Gonzalo (if he sees this) knows that I feel no ill will toward him. As for coming back, I don't really know what else I could add to the wiki, but I'm mostly tempted to add new pictures if I see the opportunity for one. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 00:52, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark back and forth

What is the consensus on how the infobox should be on House Stark? There is a lot of back and forth. Obviously it's Jon Snow (King), then Sansa, Arya, and Bran as heir? I don't know.. I protected it until it can be fixed. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 18:19, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Jon Snow is the King in the North, whether or not people say he's the Lord of House Stark - it doesn't matter. Because he officially has not legal rights to Winterfell or being in charge of a different when HE IS IN FACT a TARGARYEN! Claimant to Iron Throne maybe but not to Winterfell or Lord of House Stark. White Walker Ramsay NK mini sigil 18:32, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

But he doesn't, nor does anyone else know he's a Targaryen.. so that has no sway on anything at this point. While I believe one of the children are heir to Winterfell, Jon is King of the North. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 18:39, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
OK so no one knows (characters) he's a Targaryen. We (all the viewers) know he's a Targaryen - yet it's OK for people to edit Jon Snow's page on this wiki and put Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark as his parents but when it comes to his rights as a Targaryen is it also OK to put a character who is a Targaryen that WE (viewers) know about as the rightful Lord of Winterfell and House Stark?? I'm sorry but I cannot see the logic in this. White Walker Ramsay NK mini sigil 18:44, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I did not immediately start work on this because the episode article itself needed to be updated, then the Jon Snow article, then the family tree templates...after which I needed to read through the 5,000 or so edits on the wiki since the post-finale newbie boom - many of which were simply complaints asking why everything wasn't done hours after the finale aired. Admins have to review stuff to make sure there's no vandalism.

What I have left to review are the edits since last Sunday made by non-anonymous users, exclusive of my own edits (under the "Recent Changes" filter options) - which should go faster than the anonymous ones because regular users are usually more constructive. There are about 5,000 of them.

I never even read the "House Stark" article since last Sunday. Let me clarify that; I didn't get to it yet, I was busy with the other stuff ahead of it. Thus whatever people already put into the infoboxes as you mention (when it comes to his rights as a Targaryen etc) does not reflect an actual policy "decision".

Yesterday it was the Jon Snow article, now it's the House Stark article. This is a massive book series and so many people seem surprised that it's taking us more than a single day to incorporate a bunch of massive plot revelations.

Yes, progress is being made. The new user boom post-finale slowed us down, but we are recovering.

I don't expect you to be happy about this but you need to be patient for only a little longer, I'm turning to this now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:06, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Noble Houses are both families and political factions. Thus we list that Jon Snow's real father is a Targaryen, but at the same time, do not give him the political titles that go with that because no one including himself knows what his real parentage is just yet. Thus Jon isn't "Prince of Dragonstone" or "King of Westeros" etc. if he isn't even aware of it. I think this distinction is fairly clear.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to drop what I'm doing to address this - as if it was the first thing I worked on Sunday night instead of the other stuff, ignoring the back and forth discussions I didn't read.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:13, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

The Viewer's Guide, which is an official HBO website, lists Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell... that should resolve the situation. - Xanderen signature 19:08, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Good to know, good to know. This raises another issue: part of "incorporating/addressing/analyzing" "the finale" is also reading all interviews and supplementary information - which also takes time. So I have a choice between "writing the Jon Snow article", "writing the House Stark article, cold" or "expend time into researching the House Stark article".

Everyone: it may be several days before we fully address and dissect everything from this episode. Anything I put in the infoboxes now will be a stop-gap measure and placeholder.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:13, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with everything you said above TDD. While the rightful heir is currently Lady Sansa, the people have chosen Jon as their King.. so where does that leave him in Winterfell? Ugh... enjoy this one TDD. haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:17, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Also just a thought, even though Sansa is rightful heir right now, Jon being King.. doesn't that chump anything.. couldn't he literally set up shop wherever he wanted? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:19, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Jon is King, however heir is Lady Sansa and people have ACTUALLY voted Sansa as Lord of House Stark. But I understand characters in the series have named Jon as King... White Walker Ramsay NK mini sigil 19:24, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
Screenshot 1

As I explained in the edit summary: It's not up to us to just vote on who we want to be the head of House Stark. We're an encyclopedia, and we're duty bound to record facts as they are presented to us, nothing more. Fortunately, on this occasion, there is a canon source (VG) that directly refers to Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell. - Xanderen signature 19:28, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

The Admins never put this to a vote. Whatever vote you held was meaningless.

We were simply buried with tasks and didn't get to turn our full attention to the matter. Quite simply it's too unclear - and my stop gap solution was just to leave a large note explaining "we don't know".

Now we've more or less got a handle on things.

I agree with everything Xanderen just said.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:35, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Family section

In the family section, shouldn't we limit how far we go back to avoid having an extremely long list.

For Example:

  • Close ancestors (avoid great-greats)
  • Father
  • Mother
  • Siblings (arrange according to order)
  • Spouse
  • Children (arrange according to order)
  • Close descendants (grandchildren)
  • Other relatives (aunt/uncle/cousin)
  • Other relatives (niece/nephew)

AshBell 21:39, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Night's Watch navbox


The Night's Watch navbox needs updating - it is locked. 

Would you please be so kind to unlock it as I would like to PERSONALLY take care of it's editing.


EchoesoftheTower-Shield 22:48, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Just a question on Jon's sigil's

The house banner's above his infobox... the Night's Watch is there. Should it still be? Did he claim himself that his watch has ended, therefore wouldn't his fealty to them also? I can't remember who was left in charge when he left. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 16:55, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Well he was Night's Watch then he left so...I'm not sure if they reflect "current" allegiance only, but I thought we were showing their history of shifts. Gonzalo84 would know better than I do.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:32, July 4, 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, the middle is used for shifted, past or divided allegiances and the rest of the infobox completes the information. I'm dubious, though, if Jon should have the Targaryen sigil on the left side.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:19, July 4, 2016 (UTC)
Sounds confusing to me. lol So from left to right... should be current house, middle should be past house?, and right is....? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:48, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

....what it was a few days ago, just with Night's Watch in the middle I think...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:58, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Brandon Stark (Son of Eddard)

Brandon Stark (Son of Eddard) .... really? Is that really the page title? I think it should simply be "Bran Stark". What are your thoughts? I have a talk section going on that page. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:01, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

We fixed this. Never mind. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:15, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

EchoesOfTheTower did that. Edit summary: "Agreement on naming pages with their full name)"

He didn't bother to ask about renaming a major character's page, nor asking what exactly the "agreement" or pattern actually was.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:30, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

When we were discussing if we should rename the Lancel, Loras and Umber pages we came to the conclusion that all pages should be named with their original full name, with their nickname mentioned within the article. Therefore, I was just following protocol - that's his name, thats what they called him. By this logic, should Daenerys's page be renamed "Dany Targaryen" just because her brother calls her that? No, in fact "Dany" is mentioned in the "also known as" tab, and the same should go for Brandon. Ned's page is called "Eddard Stark" as that is his full name, despite him being almost exclusively referred as Ned. Joffrey Baratheon wouldn't be called Joffrey Baratheon (Son of Jaime Lannister) because he is the ONLY Joffrey Baratheon. I put the (Son of Eddard) bit to distinguish him from his uncle whose page name is Brandon Stark (Son of Rickard). I don't do stuff randomly, I do pay attention to these details. I am sad that pages are not named professionally. His nickname doesn't have anything to do with it.-- EchoesoftheTower-Shield 18:34, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

"When we were discussing if we should rename the Lancel, Loras and Umber pages we came to the conclusion that all pages should be named with their original full name, with their nickname mentioned within the article."

No, dear god, NO, No one ever said that. It was a question of "should we drop a character's surname" specifically....I am stunned that you generalized this into "use Brandon Stark's full name including parentheses afterwards to say "Son of Eddard").

This is a stunning lack of reading comprehension.

On a case by case basis we call him "Bran Stark" because there are multiple characters with that same name and they use "Bran" very commonly to differentiate him. In contrast, Daenerys is usually called Daenerys, and only rarely called "Dany". You should have been able to draw this distinction.

"I am sad that pages are not named professionally."

That is an insult.

Yes, we name them "professionally" - based on the principle of access points, needs of the user for clarity.

I.e. "William Clinton" is so commonly called "Bill Clinton" that it would be odd for not to call him that.

Yikes. It is absurd that you are outright defending the mistakes you made with this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:01, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

No, you weren't paying attention to the details - or rather, you're seeing the trees but not the forest.

AND you didn't try to read up on the "BRan Stark" disambiguation Talk pages where we discussed this months ago.

But most of all, you could have DIRECTLY ASKED AN ADMIN "Hey, how are we handling Bran Stark, multiple characters have the same name".

Instead you jumped to a poor conclusion. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:07, July 6, 2016 (UTC)


What did Sumeyye1 do?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 14:00, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Added "Jon's real name is Jaehaerys I Targaryen" into the top line of the page. Not just "Jaehaerys", but "Jaehaerys I"...ignoring the fact that there's already a Jaehaerys I. Ugh.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:17, July 5, 2016 (UTC)


Hi there,

Template:Navigation/Locations links to "Vaes Dothraki" rather than Vaes Dothrak. Just letting you know because I'm unable to edit it myself. Thanks. TargaryenBlood Talk Contribs 15:56, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Maternal/Paternal Split


First of all, I wanted to say kudos to you for how you changed up the relatives in the infobox for Jon Snow. I like it a lot. Triad and I left messages on Jon's page as to whether or not to apply your structure to other character articles. I've been kicking around in my head how I would go about doing that for Ned and Catelyn's children. I'm thinking their siblings and spouses would be lumped together with their parents as uou did with Jon's parents, and then obviously we would divy up their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins under maternal/paternal. What about in-laws? Talisa, Tyrion, Ramsay...where would they go? I'm thinking they should probably be lumped along with parents, spouses, and siblings but I would appreciate your input before I apply the structure you used anywhere else. Kudos again for coming up with that split on Jon's page. I think it's brilliant. Shaneymike (talk) 16:25, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, though only on the really long ones (I've they've got one maternal uncle or something it isn't worth making a "mother's family" section). But this is all eventual when we get through systematic updates.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:12, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I won't do any maternal/paternal split for someone like Robyn Arryn since there's practically no one on his father's side. But yeah I would definitely apply your structure to the Stark children since theirs is pretty long. Shaneymike (talk) 17:27, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Home page

Could you change the Home page, to say that the winds of winter is the most current episode to date, thank you. 20:57, July 5, 2016 (UTC)


You seeing this crap? THIS is why I said I needed a break. UGH! -face palm- QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:53, July 6, 2016 (UTC)


Emailed you. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:58, July 6, 2016 (UTC)


Dragon, I am sorry for whatever problems I have caused. I may have jumped into the flurry of things a bit too quickly and perhaps not realized some of the things were wrong. Believe me when I say I'm sorry - you pointed out there were problems in my editing, like I said I want to be part of the solution and not the problem. I would like to have some time to discuss this with you, and I would like you to help me see what I did wrong so I do not repeat it, please. I want to work here with you and everyone else, therefore I an ready to follow your lead to understand my mistakes. While I wait for you to get back to me (and I hope you do) I will stand down from active editing duties. Thank you Best -- EchoesoftheTower-Shield 07:17, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry template

It seems to have become common practice to duplicate a characters shields on both left and right sides of their profile, and then to cram additional shields into the middle - this is wrong, in my opinion, and looks incredible messy. Not to mention being completely redundant. It's fine for characters like Daenerys, who only has one affiliation, and is the head of her own house... but for characters like Jon we don't need to put a second Stark shield on the right just because he's left the Night's Watch - we already know he's a Stark, it's his birth house. Same deal with Cersei - her loyalty to House Lannister is reflected by her left hand shield, it doesn't need to go on the right as well just because she's now queen. - Xanderen signature 17:12, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the right shield is meant to indicate current loyalties and the left shield the house you are born to, or otherwise the one you are first loyal to or most affiliated with (in the case of Bronn, for example, whose family obviously doesn't have a sigil). I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinion, I think it's alright if we repeat it twice, once for the left side to indicate birth and once for the right to indicate current allegiance. Cersei Lannister obviously isn't "loyal" to House Baratheon anymore, but she was also born into House Lannister. That's just my opinion though. Reddyredcp (talk) 17:58, July 8, 2016 (UTC)
Xanderen - I have to disagree with you. I don't think adding shields in the middle is "cramming" them in. The template is set-up to have up to 5 shields along the top. Why would the template be set-up to allow for 5 shields if we would only use the left and right one?

Plus, I think the multiple shields performs a good function - it is a quick recap of that character's evolving allegiance. For example with Jon Snow, if the right one is the Night's Watch, what is the differnce between Jon and all of remaining active members of the Night's Watch. If the right one is changed to House Stark, then what is the difference between Jon Snow and the Starks such as Bran? But if you have the Night's Watch in the middle, it emphasizes how unusual a character Jon Snow is - very few people that have joined the Night's Watch ever left it allive. Same thing with Jaime Lannister leaving the Kingsguard and the Cersei situation is unprecedented.

So I think by making the shields less "messy", it eliminates some important information about that character that helps people remember what has happened with a particular character. With Sansa, having both the Lannister and Bolton shields is important since her marriage to Tyrion happened so long ago that a lot of viewers have forgotten about it BUT it is probably going to be an important point in the future once Sansa and Tyrion probably meet up again. If you're not like a super-fan like we are, it might seem like Tyrion and Sansa being married comes out of left-field when it is mentioned in Season 7 or 8. I already had people I watch the show with ask me why Lyanna mentioned Lannister when Sansa, Jon and Davos asked for Lyanna's support in their fight against the Boltons. I had to remind them Sansa had married Tyrion so I think by leaving the Lannister shield in the middle for Sansa, it provides an important reminder for whoever comes by and reads her page.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:24, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

SSMcS - You misunderstand me: I don't mean we shouldn't use more than two shields, of course we should (where it's appropriate). What I'm saying is there appears to be a misconception that the far right shield has to always = most recent affiliation, and that the far left one automatically = former affiliation. I believe the system here is supposed to be based on what AWoIaF does, which is simply to display the heraldry that a character uses throughout their life (or at least is legally allowed to use).
In Sansa's case this should be - Stark (far-left), Lannister (middle-right), Bolton (far-right). There's no need to put a second Stark shield on the far-right because she never stopped being a Stark. Same deal with the Cersei and Jon. - Xanderen signature 19:22, July 8, 2016 (UTC)
OK, I now see what you're saying but I still think what you are proposing is confusing. I think the second Stark shield for both Sansa and Jon are important to show that both of these characters are now both actively aligned with House Stark instead of just being born into this family. Plus, someone like Tyrion, who is actively working against his family's interests shows that a character's birth family is not necessarily what a character is aligned with. Jon already showed that he put the Night's Watch in front of House Stark but now he puts House Stark ahead of the Night's Watch. That is a very important part of Jon's story that would be obscured by just leaving the Night's Watch on the right for Jon - or House Bolton on the right for Sansa.
Finally, I think it is way easier to explain to the editors at large to say "Allegiance by birth on the left, past allegiance(s) in the middle, current allegiance on the right" instead of trying to explain the finer points of which shields a character is legally allowed to use.
Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:36, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Help - mistake


I created a new page not knowing it existed already - it was for a minor, mentioned character, so I did not know. I cannot delete it, could you please do it? I am sorry.

Thank you Sergeant Abraham Ford (talk) 17:41, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

Just quick warning

Just noticed this person. Keep an eye on them, as I have this feeling it could be a sock pocket of "you know who". The image in the infobox seems so fake. HERE. Thoughts? 01:21, July 10, 2016 (UTC)


Hi! We at PLL wiki would love to affiliate with you.

--Harryhogwarts (talk) 04:39, July 10, 2016 (UTC)Harryhogwarts


Hi! We at PLL wiki would love to affiliate with you.

--Harryhogwarts (talk) 04:40, July 10, 2016 (UTC)Harryhogwarts

Please message me this on my talk page please. I normally take care of the affiliates. Thanks QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 04:41, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

latest sock puppet

So I went to delete "Zachs" images... one of them was on another page "The vampire diaries"... and it said "Male, Student, from England". BUSTED. lol See it here. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 05:28, July 10, 2016 (UTC)


Sorry what did i get blocked for?? I wasnt doing "sockpuppet" what even is that?

I didn't do anything wrong !

I asked Wikia to run a check user, and surprise surprise Sergeant Abraham Ford and EchoesOfTheTower edit from the same IP. - Xanderen signature 22:08, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Can you check WillNet31? He just left me a message and he sounds exactly like EchoesOfTheTower and given the types of edits he makes - that he is the only one who knows what is happening - that we are just power-tripping admins, etc. - I think WillNet31 is another sockpuppet of Echoes.
Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:23, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
I no longer think WillNet31 is a sockpuppet of Echoes but I blocked himself for his abusive messages. Basically, the guy is proud of how he bullies others - who wants that kind of person around?
Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:30, July 11, 2016 (UTC)


Just had an idea. What about making a category for pages that says "Image needs brightening"? I am going through so many, but I'd have a lot of help if people could add that category for me. That way I can brighten (or someone else can), the images so they are better seen. This could be infobox or images in the synopsis.. we'd be able to tell which it is. What do you think? Thanks. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:26, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

So again, I just add BrighterImageNeeded with brackets, like a STUB tag would be? (I just wanted to show you the latest I sent Gonzalo.. he's helping me with this. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:45, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Just an update, haven't heard from you in awhile. This is turning out good... I'm just accumulating a lot of them and will get started on them. I am also going through each actor and updating their images... mainly ones that are 5+ years are older. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 21:51, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Well they seem pretty good.

I'm uncertain about the two on the "Frey Pie" page; it was a very darkly lit scene so I understand that miracles aren't going to happen with that one, but I don't want it to be too far from the original, I guess.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:00, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, those are the ones I haven't even touched yet. They are just too dark. A lot I won't be able to fix, but a lot I will. Better to try at least, than do nothing. Just really trying to clean up the Wikia. So the newest Frey Pie images, you think I got them "too bright"? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:27, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Top Links


I'm having issues producing what you're talking about on the page you provided. Can you supply me with a screenshot?

Thank you,

Knakveey (talk) 16:20, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Don't mean to butt in, but if this is about the food fantasy thing, I brightened a couple of images you can give. If this isn't what you're talking about, my bad. lol QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:46, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

kitn line of succession

If King Jon dies (and is brought back by The Hound) it does not matter who's the heir of Ned, who was just warden of the north and never king. It would only matter who is the most close relative of King Jon. Jon does not have siblings, so he is probably himself the person who is most closely related to himself. Jon, first of his name (talk) 23:40, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

His cousins are his relatives. Don't let your fanboyism blind you to logic.Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:49, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm only talking about this. I don't doubt that Bran is Jon's heir as long as Jon does not have any children. So technically Bran is probably the true crown prince of all Seven Kingdoms and Danaerys number 4 in the line of succesion (or 5 if we consider uncle Benjen as being alive) Jon, first of his name (talk) 00:20, July 13, 2016 (UTC)


Hey, have you ever listened to the A Song of Ice and Fire audiobooks? I've just started the first one, and while I'm enjoying Roy Dotrice's narration, and the different voices he does, I'm finding all the mispronunciations really grating - "PER-TIE-ER" Baelish! Do you know if this is something that gets corrected in later chapters? - Xanderen signature 10:24, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

1 - He's old and sick now, 2 - Hey, I'd like to see you read that many thousands of distinct individual names with little if any advice beforehand from GRRM and nail the pronunciation on the first try. For god's sake they're "A Song of Ice and Fire: THe One Man Play".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:00, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

An e-raven has arrived

I have sent you an e-raven.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:41, July 13, 2016 (UTC)


Well the recruits of the Night's Watch have to take an oath and swear by the Weirwood outside Castle Black, no? I mean that means it has to be a part of Night's Watch order to become a Black Brother, why else would they take an oath by the Weirwood exactly? Ramsay NK mini sigil 16:52, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Only those who believe in the Old Gods... those who believe in the Seven take their oaths in Castle Black's sept.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:13, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark is one House that follows the Old Gods. So do the Boltons and Umbers. That does not mean that "Old Gods" gets put in the "House Stark" category.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:25, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Neither does House Targaryen breed dragons nor they are last sole breeders in the world, yet Dragons are under House Targaryen category why? I believe that Dragons, Direwolves and Lions need to have categories Houses Targaryen, Stark and Lannister respectively by their sigil, house members, their animals/pet and behaviours. I don't understand why would User:Gonzalo84 think that Houses listed as categories under certain animals mean that they breed them. E.g. Valyria and Magic is also under Dragons category yet I don't think Dragons are born from Magic and Valyria Ramsay NK mini sigil 18:07, July 18, 2016 (UTC) 

Dragons are born from magic and the region of Valyria. They're very exclusive to the Targaryens at present, though maybe we should take them out of that.

But you see, Direwolves exist in the wild beyond the Wall still.

Even moreso, lions aren't really exclusive to the Lannisters at all. I mean, even the Reynes used lions in their heraldry.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:26, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

That's why I put both House Lannister and House Reyne under Lions categories. Reynes and Lannisters both used Lions in their Heraldries until Lannisters wiped out House Reyne which made them sole survivors House of "Lion" Ramsay NK mini sigil 18:52, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

No. This is absurd.

The Lannisters and Reynes aren't the only House to use lion heraldry. Beyond that, don't even put a House in a category based on its heraldry, i.e. Greyjoys and Krakens.

Yes, the Lannisters kept lions at Casterly Rock in past generations, but not now.

The curent Stark direwolves might be a different matter but given their survival in the wild, no.

...Dragons...the only surviving dragons are kept by the Targaryens so they stay in that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:37, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Remove protection on Catelyn Stark's page


I'm reaching out to you to ask you if you can lift the protection on Catelyn Stark's page, or at least semi-protect it. Seeing as Lady Stoneheart is unlikely to happen, I don't expect a massive flood of anon-contributors that are going insert their FanWank and fanon about LSH on the page.

Thanks, in advance.

The ever noble SharkyBytesz, Lord of the Never-There.

Lord Sharky (talk) SharkyBytesz-Personal-Main-Shield 23:50, July 22, 2016 (UTC)  

It's the last bastion.

...might go over it more in the near-future. Large project. Your concerns have merit.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:31, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Understandable. Thanks anyway, Dragon. Lord Sharky (talk) SharkyBytesz-Personal-Main-Shield 10:53, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Two users


I have two users on Wikia. While I prefer to keep the name of my other account to myself (though you can probably identify which through identical IPs), I once accidently posted on a talk page while logged in with the wrong account. I'm just letting you know to avoid any misunderstanding, as I know it's a common tactic to create new users and participate in the same discussion with multiple accounts. I'm just letting you know so you won't think I did it on purpose, and I'll do my best to not make the same mistake again. Best, --CrappyScrapHouse-Dayne-Main-Shield 02:02, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

EDIT: Just saw the message on your user page. I'm so sorry for your loss :/ --CrappyScrapHouse-Dayne-Main-Shield 02:04, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

For the Costumes article

I don't know if you noticed, but the Tarly servants - who show up bowing their heads when Sam arrives - dress completely different from Lady Melessa and Talla - unlike, say Palla, or Cersei's attendants who emulate the nobility. You can see the nigh-fascist-mysoginistc mindset of Randyll Tarly at work.


--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:52, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I noticed that...why don't the Tarly servants dress like the noblewomen? I like the costumes, very "Medieval Classic" as befitting the Reach. Fascist? I don't know about Misogynistic, there's men in that shot too.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:22, July 26, 2016 (UTC)
Thinking about Ranydll in the books who pretty much tells Brienne "You're asking for [rape]" because she dresses like a man. In this case the female servants in a very conservative - if feminine - manner. Perhaps the correct words are "militaristic" and "conservative". Randyll is really trying to impose class segregation ("don't you even think about dressing above your station").--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:55, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

...You mean like medieval sumptuary laws? An interesting possibility.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:07, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Sam Tarly quote

We need a more current quote. Any ideas?

Ashara Dayne?

"Accompanied Lady Ash--- Ashara Dayne?

410 White Book Barristan Selmy's page

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:10, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

Heads up

I blocked Joe.Benson over these messages. I think he'll show up again.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:05, August 4, 2016 (UTC)

House Florent template

Can you switch template House Florent for this? And added Talla Tarly if you can.

Alester Florent

Melara Florent

Ryam Florent
Unknown Lady Florent
Rylene Florent

Melessa Florent

Randyll Tarly
Stannis Baratheon House-Baratheon-of-Dragonstone-Main-Shield
Selyse Florent

Axell Florent

Imry Florent

Samwell Tarly

Dickon Tarly
Three stillborn sons House-Baratheon-of-Dragonstone-Main-Shield
Shireen Baratheon House-Baratheon-of-Dragonstone-Main-Shield

Pawel10s 00:29, August 6, 2016 (UTC)

It's already on my list to do this weekend!

Regards, Admin Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:36, August 6, 2016 (UTC)

Going to need to address this...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:09, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Ban Issue


You need to contact Community Support with this issue.

Knakveey (talk) 16:33, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

My banned IP

I managed to contact wikia, which lifted the ban on the IP address. It seems to have been a matter of coincidence.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:21, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

Welcome template on our Talk Pages

What happened to the generic welcomes we get on our Talk Pages? Look at mine... it's gone? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 14:55, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

I need to check, I'm not sure how those work.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:45, November 12, 2016 (UTC)


Your userpage update gave me the chills. Are you okay?? --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 23:17, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Same here. I had a mild heart attack after seeing TDD's userpage "update". I purposefully avoided contacting him because I thought he might needed some time alone. Still, people here are concerned. Do you need any help, Dragon? Lord Sharky (talk) SharkyBytesz-Personal-Main-Shield 23:23, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
I have emailed him to check on him. :/ QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:53, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
Could you update us if you hear from him? --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 17:34, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
If it isn't too private, of course I will :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 20:39, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
I messaged him vi Twitter, but haven't had a response.... I'm quite concerned, but don't know what else to do. - Xanderen signature 09:11, August 13, 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone know him IRL? It's been 13 days, and I'm really worried for him. --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 14:30, August 19, 2016 (UTC)
He's still active on his Twitter account @ADragonDemands.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:01, August 19, 2016 (UTC)
Wow, thank goodness. I thought his last online activity was erasing his profile sans that quote that gave me the chills, which was why I feared the worst. I guess he's just having a break, then. --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 22:24, August 19, 2016 (UTC)


Would there be any reason I couldn't add the categories 'male' and 'female' ? --~ Lorisa! (talk) 06:39, September 1, 2016 (UTC)

Wights and White Walkers

I don't want to sound like a pain in the arse, but I've got a bit of a quarrel with putting White Walkers–wights even more so–down as "cultures" since the former isn't even its own species but rather a failed experiment of the COTF and the latter little more than mindless reanimated corpses. It's difficult for me to see what sort of "culture" there is in either of those things.

I wanted to take this up with you since you're experienced at editing. 14:15, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

One of ours...

Frey banner H&L

The people that make the Histories and Lore featurettes are actually using our artwork from the wiki! - Xanderen signature 15:16, November 17, 2016 (UTC)

Dark Answer

Hey, can you please intervene with this user please? I'm trying to explain to him about the image policy but he's just ignoring me. Cheers. - Xanderen signature 18:43, November 18, 2016 (UTC)

I have also noticed he is uploading 100000s of images without properly adding categories, and instead of going back to fix them, just keeps uploading more. It's way out of hand! QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:39, November 21, 2016 (UTC)


I emailed you. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:50, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

Also, badges have now been disabled.. seems there are editors more interested in accumulating badges than actually making proper, correct edits. This feature should be turned off indefinitely. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:37, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

You mean Wikia stopped it, or you turned them off on this one?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:39, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

I turned it off. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:37, November 21, 2016 (UTC)
Probably for the best.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:43, November 21, 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. I feel too many people are taking advantage of it. More interested in getting badges than actually contributing in the correct manner to the Wiki. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:44, November 21, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree.--Shaneymike (talk) 03:01, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Animal heraldry

Yes, I noticed that too. I just thought it looked very unproffesional since most of the animals (mainly the dragons) already had heraldry. Thanks fot the heads up though.IDONTCAREWHATANYONESAYSIAMTHEBIGGESTHPFAN (talk) 19:27, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Jogos Nhai

Hi, we spoke a while back about holding off on a potential Jogos Nhai page until there was a specifc mention of them within the context of the show. Now that they've been mentioned in the Season Six Histories & Lore, can I go ahead with what I have? Please let me know, and thanks. Gotlvr87 (talk) 18:23, November 29, 2016 (UTC)

Ack; I was still working on the Histories and Lore and meant to get that page started earlier but had to stop for a class paper due today; I posted up what I have offline just now to get it rolling.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:13, November 29, 2016 (UTC)

It's okay. I found the exisiting page and can work with what's there. Gotlvr87 (talk) 06:50, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

Additions for Targaryen family trees


I've started individual templates for the following Targaryen ancestors in the event that you or Ser Shield (who I also messaged) should decide to add them to the Targaryen family trees...

Aegon Targaryen (son of Aenys) - Template:Familytree/Aegon Targaryen son of Aenys
Rhaena Targaryen (daughter of Aenys) - Template:Familytree/Rhaena Targaryen daughter of Aenys
Rhaenys Targaryen (Queen Who Never Was) - Template:Familytree/Rhaenys Targaryen DotD
Laenor Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Laenor Velaryon
Jacaerys Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Jacaerys Velaryon
Lucerys Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Lucerys Velaryon
Joffrey Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Joffrey Velaryon
Helaena Targaryen - Template:Familytree/Helaena Targaryen
Jaehaerys Targaryen (son of Aegon II) - Template:Familytree/PrinceJaehaerysTargaryen
Template:Familytree/Jaehaera Targaryen - Template:Familytree/Jaehaera Targaryen
Maelor Targaryen - Template:Familytree/Maelor Targaryen

I did check at one point to see about adding Helaena to where she would go but it looked tricky.--Shaneymike (talk) 16:52, December 3, 2016 (UTC)

One more...

Corlys Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Corlys Velaryon

--Shaneymike (talk) 17:49, December 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'll prioritize setting this up first thing after my final paper due December 22nd.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:14, December 10, 2016 (UTC)


...for jumping the gun with those last few edits I made. --Shaneymike (talk) 03:37, December 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I was just about to point out the changes Shield made to the tree for the current generation of House Targaryen but I see you already changed most of them back. Should we take out Betha Blackwwood too? --Shaneymike (talk) 03:47, December 5, 2016 (UTC)

Oh no it's my fault for being so far behind. Yes these need updating but I'm buried in end of semester final papers. Actually I have to drop everything I'm doing right now to get them in. Family trees are indeed on the "to do list" along with a dozen other things. Crud. I thought I'd have those done by mid-November.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:58, December 5, 2016 (UTC)

Possessive nouns

Hi Dragon,

Sorry to bother you again when you're buried in end of semester final papers. I would never expect you or anyone else on this wiki for that matter to drop everything else you got going on in real life over something so trivial. Still, when you have a moment I'd like to hear your thoughts on this little issue that I'm having with how we should be writing possessive nouns on this wiki, specifically characters whose names end with an "s". At one point, I was having a back and forth with User:IDONTCAREWHATANYONESAYSIAMTHEBIGGESTHPFAN with regards to Varys. I kept saying it should be "Varys's" because that's what I was always taught in school but he kept insisting it should be "Varys'". Eventually, User:SummerandBran stepped in and said "Varys's" is correct, citing APA. However, over on the official Wikipedia, I tried applying that logic to Jeffrey Jones' (Jones's?) article and it got reverted.[2] As I said, I was always taught that when adding an apostrophe to someone whose name ends with an "s", you're supposed to add another "s" after the apostrophe but nowadays it seems that has changed. As I said, I know you're busy but when you have a moment, can you please tell me once and for all which of the following we should be using for characters whose name end with an "s"?

Varys' or Varys's Daenerys' or Daenerys's Stannis' or Stannis's

Please do NOT feel compelled to settle this matter right away. By all means, take your time and focus on whatever you got going on that is most important for you right now. Thank you. --Shaneymike (talk) 02:54, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

The rando who told you that on Wikipedia doesn't know what he's talking about, and didn't even cite a standard for his assertion.

I go by Chicago Manual of which both are "acceptable" but "another possessive S after a word ending in S" is preferred. Due to the fact that free-floating apostrophes can in fact screw with wiki-coding and result in stuff getting italicized, I try to make it uniform whenever you run across it.

Thus: "Stannis's", "Daenerys's", "Varys's"; and also "the Lannisters' army".

...If there was a "House Bogs", we'd say "Jack Bogs's sword" but "the Bogs' army".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:33, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much.--Shaneymike (talk) 03:41, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

Is it no longer a spoiler?

I just saw that the page of Aegon (Rhaegar's son) has been updated with information from book 5. Does it mean it is no longer a spoiler for this wiki? Then I suggest to update Jon Conington's page too.

BTW, what is your opinion: is that Aegon real or impostor? 14:41, December 9, 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely not, I should have locked the page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:09, December 9, 2016 (UTC)


I've sent you an e-mail. - Xanderen signature 17:13, December 9, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I'm processing it now...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:17, December 9, 2016 (UTC)

House Grandison's Shield?

Could you weigh-in on the use of House Grandison's shield on House Grandison's talk page? I would like to have a quick discussion and put the issue to rest.

Thanks Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:54, December 10, 2016 (UTC)

House Targaryen family tree Conquest era

I just tried adding Template:Familytree/Aegon Targaryen son of Aenys and Template:Familytree/Rhaena Targaryen daughter of Aenys but couldn't get it to work. These family trees are tricky. Shaneymike (talk) 20:30, December 10, 2016 (UTC)

Two templates for Rhaenys Targaryen

There are apparently two individual templates for Rhaenys Targaryen: Template:Familytree/Rhaenys Targaryen and Template:Familytree/Rhaenys Targaryen 2. I figured I should bring that your attention before deleting one or the other. Shaneymike (talk) 20:42, December 10, 2016 (UTC)

Animal Heraldry

Can you confirm yet if this wiki is using animal heraldry?


House Velaryon's Sigil

House Velaryon seems to have a usable sigil now - I think - but the colors look to be opposite from what is described in the books. Would you mind weighing in at Talk:House_Velaryon on if this sigil is good enough for using to create the coat of arms and if the colors in the description of the sigil should be updated to reflect the one reference we have?

Thanks Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:58, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

House Velaryon family tree

I've started a tree for House Velaryon: Template:House Velaryon family tree. Shaneymike (talk) 02:55, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

I really can't launch into a new Task until my final paper is finished on December 21 (oh crap that's one week away).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:13, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

No prob. I let Shield know too. Shaneymike (talk) 16:38, December 13, 2016 (UTC)


Um is this some sort of threat against everyone on this wikia?

Operation Bootstrap?

This is a wikia not some war room. Ramsay NK mini sigil 22:34, December 15, 2016 (UTC)

"Operation Bootstrap", as I explained at the link provided, is a triage list of "high priority articles with heavy traffic which we really need to work on improving as soon as possible", fairly obvious targets such as Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, etc.

That was not a threat.

When I posted on Shaneymike's Talk page and said "Regarding Eko is Oke: do what needs to be done" and linked to his list of banned users, that, ser, was a threat.

See the difference?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:31, December 15, 2016 (UTC)

Eko's mental breakdown and childishness... 

...anything we should do about it? Contact Wikia? Track down IP? Lord Sharky (talk) SharkyBytesz-Personal-Main-Shield 19:16, December 16, 2016 (UTC)


Just as planned. The fool is digging his own grave.

A smarter man would have complained that his ban was unwarranted, tried to get his account unblocked. Instead, I intentionally didn't lock his userpage from editing...anticipating that he would make sock puppet accounts to leave new comments yelling at us.

Once you're making multiple accounts just to yell at the Admins who blocked you, you're chances of officially getting an account back utterly disappear.

Let him keep making an ass of himself.

A smarter man would just make a new account and pretend to be an entirely new user, making the edits he wants without taking the petty revenge of yelling at us.

...of course, we can still recognize his posting style and ban him when that happens; a focus on Bolton articles.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:24, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I suppose you're right. I'm a very cautious person, I try to contain any threat before it can cause any major damage, that's how the GOTF Wiki survived for this long.
But, we must also not forget, that good does not always triumph... Lord Sharky (talk) SharkyBytesz-Personal-Main-Shield 19:47, December 16, 2016 (UTC)


Hi. Look, I want out of this. Godzillvkk is the one who said "my way or the highway". He felt like you were demanding he change his opinion. I agreed with you that entire thread but I still get along with people I disagree with. I guess that's why he asked me that about you. You haven't done anything wrong as an admin, like I told him. I definitely don't think you should be reported for a difference of opinion. But he asked so I told him where I'd go. What he does with that is entirely up to him. What I don't understand is why I got a warning for trying to stir up trouble. That's not me, it's him. I tried to get the hell out of that conversation! Sorry Dragon, truly. SummerandBran633 (talk) 19:09, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Thousand Years(') War

Forgive me if my grammar is a bit rusty, but I renamed the article based on the norm on Wikipedia (Hundred Years' War, Thirty Years' War, Eighty Years' War, etc.). The least you could do is to leave an edit summary that explains why you reverted the renaming. Best, --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 07:42, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

I was going to but then I saw you already noticed the change; I left it out simply because that isn't the format the books themselves use - I only noticed when I clicked the link to AWOIAF and realized they used a different name (and thus the link wasn't working).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:50, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
AWOIAF is also a wiki, but if the books spell it that way, my inner grammar Nazi will have to take a chill pill. Cheers! --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 01:09, December 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Thousand Years War was fought before the Unification of the North. If I remember correctly, the Histories & Lore episode specified that the process started after the Starks successfully rebelled against the Barrow Kings. Best, --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 17:35, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

...hmmm....from the way the World book is phrased, the "Thousand Years War" was either the first step of the "Unification of the North" (a 2,000 year long process) or an earlier war which immediately preceded it. Given that the "unification" wasn't even one "war" in the first place, anymore than "the" Andal Invasion, I'm more inclined towards the former....that it was the first war in a series of wars we might call "the Unification of the North".

The phrasing of Yandel's World book is unclear. Records from that era are spotty, at best.

....treat it as "before" if it's less confusing that way.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:38, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

Alrighty, we might as well include it for simplicitys sake. Hopefully we'll learn more about these earlier wars eventually. Cheers! --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 22:41, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

Gold shield

I think we should cease using the plain gold shields as heraldry for the City Watch. We only ever did this because AWoIaF did, and we now know that plain gold is actually the canon blazon of the Golden Company... although this hasn't been established on the show, we have several Golden Company characters that technically should bear that shield rather than the City Watch characters. - Xanderen signature 12:54, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I realized this months ago...and have no idea what the right course of action is. For the moment, based on use, we have so few Golden Company characters in the live action TV show relative to the Gold Cloaks that I don't know if it is justified to make the change. Not yet anyway. This isn't an easy choice. Gonzalo84 and the other Admins will need to deliberate on this as well.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:52, December 31, 2016 (UTC)

It's not so much the Gold Cloak to Golden Company character ratio, but more about making a misleading statement. In all likelihood the Gold Cloaks probably have no heraldry, anymore than the city watch of Oldtown, or anywhere else. - Xanderen signature 11:14, December 31, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah....production team might read us then assume it's their actual heraldry. Crud. Let me think on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:24, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
Well, in AWOIAF, the use flags and banners instead of shields for the Free Companies.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:11, January 2, 2017 (UTC)

Interwiki links for protected pages

Hey ! Could you add two links for french wiki on two protected pages, please ? It is for Maggy the witch and Podrick Payne (same name in French for both). --SireAmiel (talk) 10:16, January 9, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you ! --SireAmiel (talk) 06:00, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Royalist vs. Loyalist

I saw you recently updated the Battle of Ashford to say that it was a "Royalist victory". Shouldn't it be "Loyalist victory" since all parties involved were OK having a monarch - they were all Royalists, right? But they were not all loyal. The way I think about it is Royalist vs. Republican and Loyalist vs. Rebel.

I just want to use the same term - all Royalist or all Loyalist - when updating the wiki in the future.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:19, January 31, 2017 (UTC) a Targaryen supporter, I automatically don't think of Robert's faction as "real" Royalists :)

Yeah...should go with "Loyalist".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:26, January 31, 2017 (UTC)

King's Landing profile picture


I was recently adding pictures to the King's Landing page, and wanted to change the profile picture (the picture within the box at the top, for lack of a better term). The current one is still from "Winter Is Coming," and features the outdated Great Sept of Baelor within a generally different landscape (the pre-Dubrovnik look).

I have two pictures in mind to replace it.

1: The most recent shot of the city when Jaime returns near the end of "The Winds of Winter." However, Jaime's profile takes up much of the frame, so the picture is not ideal. However, I could crop it down to just show the city.

2) The panorama from "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" as Olenna's carriage approaches the city. This is the most complete shot of the city ever featured. Unfortunately the Red Keep looks a bit like a paper cutout and the Great Sept of Baelor doesn't seem to fit with the lighting of the buildings around it. Also, it's from before Cersei's wildfire explosion, so the first picture would be more accurate of the city's current state. Nevertheless, it's the most full view of the city we've ever gotten.

I just thought I would ask your opinion: do you prefer the first or the second option, or would you rather leave it how it is? Both pictures are in the gallery at the bottom of the page. Thanks!

R Neuner (talk) 01:48, February 3, 2017 (UTC)R Neuner

Either A - the panorama when Olenna approaches the city in Season 5, or B - actually, the shot of the Great Sept from Seasons 3-4 with the Red Keep in the background (it doesn't necessarily have to be its current state, which is destroyed - by the same logic, we don't put the image of a dead character's corpse in their infobox :)

But thank you for bringing this to my attention, I'll have to address this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:36, February 7, 2017 (UTC)

View Source

Hi, I just wanted to ask you if you would update certain things that are under locked protection.

1. Jon Connington's predecessor (Tywin Lannister) and sucessor (Rossart) as Hand of the King.

2. Update the Small Council Navbox.

3. Jon Snow - Age - 22 (in Season 7)

4. A table for the Lord Paramount of the Reach, adding Lyonel Tyrell.

Thank you for your time.


Items 1, 2 and 4 are completed. Let's update Jon Snow when Season 7 actually starts. Maybe Season 7 will start by fast forwarding some amount of time.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:45, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

I think it should say Jon Snow - Age - 22 (in Season 7) just because every other character has this now. We usually start this when the first promtional images are release on the Season x page.


Yeah, you're right. His age has now been updated.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:12, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Dance of Dragons Targaryen Family Tree

What is the latest with adding the Targaryens (and a few Velaryons) to the Dance of Dragons Targaryen family tree? It looks like most of the members from the books have now been confirmed in the Histories & Lore - and these members now have their own pages. So shouldn't they be added to the family tree now?

The one open item seems to be who is the mother of Aegon III's children. Is it Daenaera Velaryon - who has not been mentioned, right? Or is it Jaehaera Targaryen and the TV series simplified the Targaryen's history?

Anwyay, I wanted to update this family tree unless you were going to do it soon.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:35, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

I'm finally sitting down and working through everything in the next few days (though I'm going in order - I can't do everything simultaneously, ack). I am aware, I'm working on it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:52, February 10, 2017 (UTC)


Hiii!!! Just checking in. Thanks for taking care of that one issue on my talk page. :) BTW, who makes the flags on here? I couldn't remember.. Shaney?? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 05:43, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

Banners? Xanderen and Ser Shield McShield were working on those...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:12, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

Like the ones for our signatures? :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:35, February 12, 2017 (UTC)

...I don't know.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:38, February 12, 2017 (UTC)

Two questions about the "Block new and unregistered users" option

1. Does it really work with new users?

2. If so, when would it no longer affect nonadmins?

The reason I'm asking is that User:Mormont78, who just joined today, kept changing Sansa's age to 13 without an explanation, prompting me to protect the page for one week's time using the "Administrators and Content Moderators only". If you or any other admin feels that is too drastic, then by all means either change it to the "new and unregistered users" option or lift it entirely. As soon as I'm done here, I'll go over to Mormont78's talk page and politely ask him or her not to make changes like that without some sort of explanation.

I think I know the answer to my first question since I used the "Block new and unregistered users" option to protect other users' pages when you-know-who was going around vandalizing other user pages after I axed him and so far no one has messaged me, saying that I've prevented them from editing their own pages. Kudos to Xanderen for figuring out how to disable anonymous editing BTW. Sorry, I didn't say that before.

Still, I was wondering if you or any of the other admins wouldn't mind giving me some insight as to when nonadmins are no longer considered "new". Thank you. Shaneymike (talk) 22:02, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

A user becomes "autoconfirmed" after their account has existed for four days - after that point they are no longer affected by the "block new and unregistered users" function. - Xanderen signature 08:27, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, Xanderen. Shaneymike (talk) 10:09, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

If it's a problem with that one guy report him and we'll deal with him.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:26, February 23, 2017 (UTC)

/* The Dornishman's Wife */

Thank you for the assist with the episode tags! :o)

Gwenleah (talk) 23:11, March 12, 2017 (UTC)

Hey everyone I'm busy prepping for a major snowstorm bearing down on the NYC area, so probably won't be online much for the next week.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:30, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

Viserion's Horns are different than Rhaegal's and Drogon's.

I found some images to compare to proove that Viserion's horns are curved more backwards than Rhaegal's and Drogon's, as shown at the top image.NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 15:00, March 19, 2017 (UTC)
Screen Shot 2017-03-18 at 8.06.39 PM

No. That's just the angle of the shot being different. You need images in which, you know, the two dragons are facing the camera at the same angle.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:26, March 19, 2017 (UTC)

Screen Shot 2017-03-19 at 8.57.27 AM

Here are the images with different angles, with Viserion on top, along with Rhaegal and Drogon on the bottom.NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 15:00, March 19, 2017 (UTC)

....The script notes for that episode identify that Viserion is the second one that Tyrion takes the collar off of - because he's better at interacting with humans. Is this specific shot the first or second dragon he takes the collar off in the scene?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:28, March 19, 2017 (UTC)

Rhaegal is the first dragon who Tyrion freed, and Viserion is the second, he is the dragon on the top image, pleading Tyrion to release his collar. --NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 18:47, March 19, 2017 (UTC)

Then Viserion is the one with more swept-back horns, and Rhaegal the ones that curve back sharper.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:36, March 19, 2017 (UTC)

Swept-back. I've never heard of that term until now. So yes, Viserion's horns are swept-back while Rhaegal's and Drogon's are more sharp-curved. This can be a good additional info for their pages. Rhaegal-and-Viserion

It's just the camera angle making them appear that way - the horns are the same. - Xanderen signature 09:14, March 20, 2017 (UTC)

Ahhh....that settles it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:11, March 20, 2017 (UTC)

GA data about nav and some ideas


As promised, I've dug up data on local navigation clicks from Google Analytics -- and posted some ideas for a different take. Take a look.

These are very general now, but if you'd like a more concrete idea of how that would look, let me know. :)

--TOR (talk) 10:12, March 30, 2017 (UTC)

Great! I was waiting for this. I've been off the past week I had to go to the Carolinas for a funeral.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:17, March 30, 2017 (UTC)


Do you want to get back to reformatting the portals? Ideally I'd like to get it all finished in time for the new season, however I'm painfully aware of how far behind I am on my "to-do" list... I can't quite remember where we left things. - Xanderen signature 15:19, April 10, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I've been out of it; started new part-time job plus finishing up another project.

I'll be diving into this in a few days - but this week. "Fix navigation" is now top of the list of stuff I need to work on here.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:53, April 10, 2017 (UTC)

"Character" category...

Hey. You've got a hub-category on this wiki called "Characters" which is divided up into sub-categories like "Season 1 Characters" etc... fine, that's as it should be, but you've got every single character article on the wiki directly inside the main hub as well as all the subs!--Thaenys (talk) 14:13, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

I know the categories are a mess. You were right to start work on this. This will be a project, I'm in triage mode at the moment, working my way down the list to that.

Feel free to experiment with it as you see fit, and I'll review when I most down the "to do" list to that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:33, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

One other thing that might come up: Never add a category like "Homosexual characters" or something to the Loras article, etc. The Admins had a whole discussion about this:

  • 1 - It isn't an in-universe term. The books have simple never introduced a term for "gay" or "homosexual" etc. Only literal descriptions like "Oberyn beds both women and men". TV show had to use complex euphemisms like "Renly doesn't enjoy the company of women".
  • 2 - ...if it's not a term, it might not even be a conceptual category. The real Middle Ages didn't even have a homosexual/heterosexual dichotomy (neither did ancient Greece).

So it would be literally imposing a modern category which they don't use.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:15, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

"Westerosi" doesn't make sense as a category for "Northmen" - "Westerosi" can refer to individuals, places, things, it's just an adjective for "From Westeros". Sort of like adding a category titled "American" to "Barack Obama". "Ethnic groups of Westeros" or "Cultural groups from Westeros" or some variation, would probably work better.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:51, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

View Source

Could we take the Catelyn Stark and Jon Connigton pages off lockdown, since I think all disagreements/worries are over?


You can count on one hand the remaining spoiler pages and those are among them. We will be discussing that in general going forward.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:11, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Updates and suggestions

Infobox test

Hello there. I'm making good progress in restructuring the category system and you should be able to see it starting to take shape; giving you a clearer idea of how efficient it will be compared with the current disorder.

I'm currently writing a small bot to assist me with the switch over, if you're comfortable with me running it? It will cut the transition time in half.

Before we go down that road, however, I have a few ideas to run by you:

1. Firstly, there are a few categories that I feel should be removed. These are namely the OOU categories like "Season 4 Characters". It is a false economy to categories characters by season... unless of course you define a "season four character" as a character that appears only in season four... that would make slightly more sense. If, for example, I wanted to search the wiki for an article on the Riverlands farmer that Arya meets, then a category containing season four-exclusive characters would actually be a sensible place to start. This wiki doesn't do that though. You consider Jon Snow to be a "season four" character as well, despite the fact that he's in all seven (so far) seasons. What this means, essentially, is that you've ended up with seven almost identical categories. And because they're ordered according to popularity the major characters are always at the front, making the cat no easier to traverse. You also categorize characters according to the billing order of the actor playing them... the problem with this is that you also categorize actors according to billing order: Minor, Major, Recurring, Starring, so that's another eight categories that are completely identical.

I would strongly suggest only categorizing articles on in-universe topics with in-universe cats like affiliation, location, social status, titles, religion, and so on. It is far more useful for editors to browse based on these terms, rather than scrolling through dozens and dozens of cat pages.

2. Secondly, I whipped up a new infobox template for character articles last night. It's a little bit jazzier than the current one, and comes with a few added benefits: Instead of having to write out streams of pipe-link coding you can use a simple code-word like "dead", and the template will automatically categorize the article as "Deceased individuals'". It's based on the template from the Ascent Wiki, and is customizable - again, you simply write a code-word like "wolf", "lion", "kraken" and the infobox will change color and appearance - the Boltons have a border of little flayed men round the edge, the Tyrells have flowers - you get the idea.

Of course these are just suggestions, but let me know what you think.--Thaenys (talk) 12:46, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

You can see a functional test on the Joffrey Baratheon article. - Thaenys (talk) 19:28, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

(I'm reading this)

I'm sorry for my prior curtness with your efforts at recategorization; I've been busy with family over Easter break.

Actually, as Navigation updates these fall under the purview of "Operation Gateway" - the stated initiative I wanted to launch into to update Navigation and Infoboxes before Season 7. Which means I should have been on it sooner, and I will now give it topmost priority (I wanted to get the Nav stuff over and done with sooner instead of later).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:01, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:41, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

No. That sounds awkward. Why did you change this from "characters", the term we were using? Please update new categories to be "Characters" instead.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:40, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

It's okay, but please understand that categories cannot be renamed. It's not a simple case of "updating" them to use one word instead of another... I would have to undo all my work from the past week and redo it from scratch. Some of the original categories have already been deleted by one of the other mods, as you had seemed to give your consent to the changes...
Anyway, the reasons why "individuals" is preferred over "characters" is one of consistency. As I explained, it's illogical to have both IU and OOU terms floating around a single namespace, which is part of the reason you've ended up with such a muddled system to begin with.
What about the infobox? - Thaenys (talk) 13:15, April 17, 2017 (UTC)
Just to give everyone a heads-up - I deleted all of the border files. I did not see Thaenys' request until now but I have to say that I really don't like the proposed infobox design. I stumbled across Tywinn's entry that had the new design and I don't know if this happening on your end, but on my end, the new design ran into the wording below it and just looked like a mess. So I reverted back all of the changes for Tywinn, Roose and Joffrey and deleted out all of the border files.
Sorry for jumping the gun on deleting files but there a host of other changes to come (Operation Gateway) without adding a huge design change as part of it as well.
Regards, Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:20, April 17, 2017 (UTC)
I didn't get a chance to see the redesign in action but based on the above screenshot I really like it... bugs can be fixed etc. That being said, a vote would be the right way to go. The whole community should get a say in such a major change. - Xanderen signature 15:39, April 18, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not too keen on the redesign at the moment. It definitely needs some touching up.--Shaneymike (talk) 15:48, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

I didn't invent the category system and just continued to use what we had, so we were due for an overhaul:

First, officially, pages should only contain the subcategory tag furthest down their tree, not both. I.e. "Bown of Brown" is "Food and Drink", a subcategory of "Culture and Society" -- and thus should not ALSO contain the "Culture and Society" category.

This is a relic from when we were using the wiki points reward system; i.e. points were only given for editing pages in the "Characters" category; if you only put "Members of House Stark" but not "Characters" it wouldn't generate points. We removed that feature a few months ago, finally, because people were habitually abusing it.

Second, I agree: Categorizing characters by Season should be dropped; most other wikis don't actually do that.

On a related topic, we need to fix the intro format to all character articles to stop that god-damned quibbling about "Bronn debuted as a recurring character in Season 1 but became a starring member in Season 2" etc. No season info, that's what the infobox is for.

Before you were here, HOURS upon hours of work-time were lost debating character status in the intro. "Guest, Recurring, Starring". Screw it we don't need to know that in the god-damned INTRO paragraph. If people want to see that it's in their "Appearances" infobox.

The problem is, officially, "Starring" cast status is purely arbitrary and nonsense, favoritism by the showrunners: they promoted Shae of all people to "Starring" in Season 2 because they like the actress, but never had Loras Tyrell as a "Starring" cast member?! Dear god I remember in Season 3 when in desperation I even invented a category of "major chracters" -- purely arbitary as well. Even TV-Shae didn't get expanded enough to be equivalent to a "Starring" role.

So, citing that this wasted a massive amount of time, and other wikis like Memory Alpha or Wookieepedia don't really do that, remove all categorization based on "Starring" or "Recurring" or "Role Ended" or "Active". NO ONE searches like that. We'll also remove this from the intros to end debating about it.

Yes we categorize by gender because this affects their social status and is a group of how they experience Westeros.

"House Stark" is applied to any person, place, or thing relating to House Stark: Winterfell, the North, Ned Stark, even Direwolves given their association. Ancestral swords that get handed down within a family like Heartsbane would also get "House Tarly". Individual weapons like Arya's Needle...might not. We'll check how many of these are and possibly grandfather it in: it's better to have a broad usage than leave unlinked pages. Also Joffrey's "Hearteater" for example. We get a choice between making a subcategory for "Arya Stark", which itself is part of "House Stark", or just putting them in "House Stark" (I prefer the latter, given how few items this applies to).

Third, the term we'll use is "Characters" not "Individuals", simply because that's what A Wiki of Ice and Fire already uses (and "individuals" sounds a bit complicated to my ear).

Fourth, yeah, we need to distinguish "Members of House Stark", "Bannermen and servants of House Stark" (or something) for people like Old Nan, and "House Stark" the institution is an over-category for members, Winterfell, Ice, etc.


As others said the new art style you made in your test template doesn't really match up well, we don't need to change that: simply, not every character uses heraldry, so a long heraldry border isn't unversally applicable (like, what would use for Drogo? Or Illyrio?) And the color is tan on brown; color scheme of black text on tan (sometimes blue) we've been usingis pretty set.

This is purely cosmetic, though.

We should probably update fitting dates into the infoboxes; keep in mind that the TV writers gave up on keeping track of that...but it still works reasonably well. I explain that on the Timeline articl:

  • Props from Season 1 give dates as "298AL" as in the first novel.
  • On-screen dialogue states one year passes from Season 1 to 2, and one from 2 to 3.
  • The general pattern basically still applies that one TV season equals one year.
  • Season 4 may have been a bit shorter (split book) but Season 5 may have been a bit longer (Tyrion's long journey to Meereen), so the explanation we're using for that is that combined they lasted two years.
  • Walda Frey and Roslin Frey had nine-month pregnancies after the Red Wedding, which can be rounded up to one year. There's no getting around that. At least one year passes between Seasons 3 and 6.
  • Edmure Tully rather prominently says he has been a prisoner for "years" plural in Season 6, narrowing it down to two or three across a three-season period.
  • Thus, yeah, the "One TV season loosely, on average, lasts about one year of on-screen story time" rule generally stands...though it's sort of an approximation. The writers might not be keeping close track but it's "salvageable" enough.

...I'm going to address updating charcter infobox when I overhaul the Tier A cast pages (Jon Snow, Daenerys, Tyrion).

For now focus on the categories.

Please make a list of all changes you make; that is, a bulleted list branching tree to keep track.

Also, ethnic categories raise a question: Drogo is both "from the Dothraki Sea" and a "Dothraki", Ned Stark is both "Characters from the North" and "Northmen".

....we may have to update that so "Characters from region" is a subcategory of their ethnic group, though that might not apply to everyone well.

This update is sorely needed, thank you for bringing focus to it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:44, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Kingsguard sigils

Awhile back Gonzalo raised the possibility of having different Kingsguard sigils for the rosters of the various kings with me - The season one crown for Robert, the season 4 crown for Joffrey, Tommen's crown/star combo etc. I know you're keen not to over-complicate things so I thought I'd run it by you first. I personally have no strong feelings on the matter. - Xanderen signature 13:18, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

I agree, maybe we could use a tabber.


Yeah, a by-season tabber given the sigil got changed a few times.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:23, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe each tab should be named by the Monarch in which the shield applies to rather than the season.


Gallery lists

I'd like to suggest we put a stop to this practice - this is what categories are for. It gets more ridiculous on articles like Lord of the Dreadfort, where all the shields are the same. - Xanderen signature 07:56, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

What?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:28, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

These. - Xanderen signature 09:55, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Image licensing tags

As you may have noticed, I've uploaded a number of images recently. The intention was for these images to be used to improve the "Costumes" pages (something we discussed a few months ago), but earlier today I recieved a second warning to not upload images without following the proper policy or I would be blocked from editing.

While I did receive a simialr message some time back, I honestly admit that during this latest batch of uploads I completely forgot about it. In any case, I'm attempting to bring the images up to code; the only major thing I can't figure out is the image licensing tags. They didn't seem to be explained on the image policy page (at least not that I could tell) and I've never used them before in any capacity. Please advise, and thank you for understanding. Gotlvr87 (talk) 01:57, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

Oh, we made a template for that, just slap this into each of them:


Between sets of double squiggly-parentheses.

That ought to hold us.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:04, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

So, when I title the images, I just put that between these- { }? Only, they're not all from HBO. Can I do the same with the name of whatever source I got them from? Gotlvr87 (talk) 13:21, April 28, 2017 (UTC) 

Yeah, { } squiggly brackets, but doubles, like a wiki link (I'm not typing that out otherwise it will auto-generate the template here and not display). {HBOImage} for non-HBO stuff, we're not as strict about that. When in doubt, just slap the HBO tag on to it. It's mostly so we don't get legal complaints and stuff.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:26, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Using this image for comparison ( I can see where the tag would go, but how do I edit an exisiting image to include that iformation in the "File History"? Do I have to upload a new version of the image? (I'm being persnickity about this because I want to continue uploading images, but I REALLY don't want to take the chance of losing my editing privileges. The work I do here is important to me) Gotlvr87 (talk) 15:49, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

No you don't need to upload a new image. Just go to "File:Got-Sn7" and click the "edit" button. This might not work if you use "Visual" editor, I always use "Source Mode" editor view.--The Dragon Demands (talk)

Okay, when I have a chance I'll do what you said. I may also run my first attempt by you, just to be sure I should do the same going forward. Gotlvr87 (talk) 21:01, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Hello. I've finally had a chance to follow-up on our image liscensing discussion. I added
to my image "Olenna, Purple Wedding headpiece" and got the big, black HBO text box under the "About" tab. Does this mean that I can go ahead and do the same thing to my other uploads, and continue to do do for any future uploads? Please let me know, and don't spare the details. Thank you very much. Gotlvr87 (talk) 18:10, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

Enable Discussions for the coming season?

Hi The Dragon Demands,

I'm contacting you as the most recently active admin and bureaucrat here, but you'll possibly want to discuss this with the other admins, too:

The seventh season is coming up, and even though your wiki unfortunately didn't get to have its own app so far for copyright reasons, there will be millions of new mobile users coming to your site. They'll find great information on the characters and episodes here, but if they want to discuss the show, they'll have a bit of a hard time. You have the forums, of course, and those will stay and continue to be used, but they can be cumbersome or even impossible to use on many mobile devices.

I suggest that we enable Discussions here now so the wiki can take advantage of it for the new season. Enabling Discussions will not affect the wiki's articles, it will just offer users, especially the mobile ones, a new way to participate in the wiki.

If you'd like, I can help you set up the new Discussions and answer any questions or concerns you might have on this. If you're worried moderating there might be more than your admin and moderator team can handle, we can give you some support on that, too.

What do you think? Mira Laime @fandom  (help forum | blog) 22:44, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

Worth a shot, I'll ask the others.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:26, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Do these posts show up in the recent changes feed? - Xanderen signature 09:51, April 22, 2017 (UTC)
I trust in Dragon's judgment, so I'll vote yes.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:09, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
"Judgement" eh, I don't know if it will work or not, but Staff wants to give it a try so I don't want to be recalcitrant.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:09, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
Always worth a shot :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 22:59, April 24, 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll take that as a yes so far, and I've enabled Discussions here. (Interestingly, likely due to a glitch, it must have been briefly enabled before, because one old post is already in there.) Nothing too egregious can go wrong with this - at the very worst, the new platform will attract trolls and spammers, but that is nothing new to wikis, and we have tools to deal with it. We're hoping for the best scenario: Lots of users passionate about Game of Thrones will find their way here and they'll have productive and fun conversations about the show. Either way, the wiki's article business shouldn't be negatively affected.
If any of you are interested, you're welcome to add an avatar and header image to the desktop browser version of Discussions and to set up categories (only admins can do this). Categories work similar to forum boards. You can find out more about making Discussions a successful part of the community here: Help:Making_Discussions_a_Success
Please note: Since you still have a forum, there will be no link to Discussions added to your local navigation automatically. If you'd like to point users there, you'll need to add a link on the local navigation or even the main page manually (or I can do that for you, if you give me permission). Ask anytime if there are questions or concerns! Mira Laime @fandom  (help forum | blog) 21:21, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
@Xanderen, since you asked: No, Discussions posts don't show in Recent Changes. There are basically two reasons for that: On active communities, there is such a high posting volume in Discussions that it would drown out all other updates on Recent Changes. The second reason is that Discussions works completely differently than articles do. Meaning the posts are expressions of opinion, not fact, and can only be edited by the person who wrote them (for a limited time) and admins. Vandalism isn't possible in Discussions because of it, and the posts require much less supervision by the community. What's more, users can report offensive posts in Discussions, so Admins and mods have a more convenient way of discovering stuff that needs their attention - they don't have to monitor all incoming content for possible issues. Mira Laime @fandom  (help forum | blog) 23:15, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

Updating the War of the Five Kings Template

Hello, DragonDemands. Since you are one of the most active adimins here, I would like to advice you to update all of the events for the War of the Five Kings Template that happened in season 6 like the events in dorne and the recent actions in the north. So far, its been only updated to season 5 and can you please help update it to season 6's standards before season 7 comes out? Many thanks :)

Canadiankebab (talk) 05:21, April 30, 2017 (UTC)

Nights Watch Cutaway Gag Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 04:57, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Would you be able to help me update the reference page? Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 20:40, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I saw that when it aired. Wasn't impressed. It's just "namedropping", it doesn't have any particular relevance to the FG plot at the moment. Just "hey let's show Brian getting stabbed like Jon Snow". The manatees at FG at work again, eh?

Well update if you want but I'm busy working on that other video project for the wiki.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:05, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Knights Inquisitor sigil

I've just remembered that I was supposed to work on your sigil for Rhaenyra's Knights Inquisitor... sorry for being so lax! I can't quite remember what changes were requested, but I've fixed up a new version that is at least better quality. - Xanderen signature 13:19, May 3, 2017 (UTC)


It's alright, I already cobbled together another version by combining the others. Thanks for the work though (and I checked the heraldry meanings, it should be an upwards-pointing sword, ready for battle; downwards pointing is at rest :) --The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:49, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

Discord Channel

Do you think the GOT wiki should have a discord channel? Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 21:40, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

I haven't used one of those before and I don't think we do....can you give an example?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:12, May 5, 2017 (UTC) Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 04:55, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

I don't...personally want to use a voice chat thing; we've got chat here if we really need that but honestly we don't even use that feature that much.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:19, May 5, 2017 (UTC)


So... no Dunk and Egg for the prequels. :-( Xanderen signature 13:32, May 17, 2017 (UTC)

I tried reading A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. I got thru the first novella about the trial by seven...barely. Couldn't get into the 2nd one.--Shaneymike (talk) 13:46, May 17, 2017 (UTC)

Fixed the slider link

You did everything right, the code was just missing a "pipe" ( AKA this thing: | )

Thereselovesyou (talk) 19:23, May 24, 2017 (UTC)

Ack, I must have mistaken an exclamation point for it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:46, May 24, 2017 (UTC)

Consistency in episode titles

In March of this year, the page title for "Winter is Coming" was changed to "Winter Is Coming" with a capital "I," consistent with the HBO website. Does this mean the other episode titles (listed below) should be changed to keep consistency?

  • "You Win Or You Die"
  • "What Is Dead May Never Die"

Just wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Kind regards,

Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 03:48, May 27, 2017 (UTC)

...Odd. Rule is to use what HBO uses, verbatim. If HBO has two alternate titles...find citations of who uses what (their website is probably standard - international DVDs often use different capitalization, like USA versus Australia DVD sets).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:04, June 9, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion points

Look, Season 7 is coming (and I'm an extra and I'm so excited to see the back of my head), and we need to sort out anything we disagree on for the Jon Snow and Catelyn Stark pages, so we can have free editing (apart from live editing, of course).


Fixing Jon Snow is a major task along with other Tier A cast; looms large on the schedule and I'm shooting to have them done, really done, before July 1st.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:08, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Runtime in infobox

Yesterday I asked Xanderen for his thoughts on having a section for the runtime in the episode infobox, which he thoguht was a good idea, but he suggested I ask you for confirmation. What are your thoughts on adding a section for the runtime in the episode infobox?

Kind regards,

Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 00:49, June 10, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah sure. It's objective information.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:43, June 10, 2017 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks for that. Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 04:13, June 10, 2017 (UTC)


Hi. I would just like to express my confusion with this Wikia. For example, at my last wikia ( I recieved an instant message after my first edit from an administrator, whilst here, I did not recieve one, meaning I cannot edit any pages available to established Users. If you could just put in a Welcome Message for me, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards, Yentel (talk) 19:44, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Also, I love your work on portals, but you have spelt some words wrong, meaning that they link to non-existant pages. I suggest you look these over. But apart from that, they are great. Love them!!!!!!

Yentel (talk) 16:13, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

...We don't write welcome messages, they're auto-generated. And welcome messages have absolutely nothing to do with your level of access to locked pages or not. You become an "established" user after something like four days (or maybe eight).

I will fix the portals. It will speed things if you can tell me specifically which ones you saw that were broken.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:07, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Of course, no problem. Braavos, Dothraki and Sothoryos. BTW, what gave you the idea, they are absolutley brilliant? Also, can I ask you about adding HBO to the image tag?

Yentel (talk) 17:16, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Wait, do you mean the Braavos Portal or the Braavos link icon within the Free Cities Portal? The entire Dothraki Portal or a specific link on it? Which specific links aren't working - I just tried and they seemed to work.

Oh I just copied stuff the Star Trek Wiki does with portals.

To add an image tag, just click edit and add the content "HBO Image", within double squiggly brackets - that is, " { " not square ones like "[".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:39, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

I meant the links inside the portal. Yentel (talk) 17:49, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Targaryen Restoration

Hi there, I've recently been reworking on my draft/article for the upcoming Targaryen conflict in Season 7. When the Great War article was published, the "Targaryen Restoration" was added in as a concurrent conflict. I'm just about finished writing the article, but given that it's a fairly important one, I wanted to make sure it would be alright if I published it - and also to make sure I don't step in the way of anyone else who may already have been working on the article beforehand. It contains no leaked information from Season 7, only details from Season 6 and what has been gathered from the trailers and otherwise officially confirmed. I asked Xanderen, who published the Great War article, and he redirected me to you. Would this be alright? You can review it beforehand if you'd like, of course. Thanks, all the best. Reddyredcp (talk) 12:37, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

I've been thinking on this a lot...
...and the thing is, I myself was calling it the "Targaryen Restoration". HOWEVER:
...calling it that assumes she will succeed. This is god-damned Game of Thrones. Maybe Daenerys will die fighting the White Walkers, before matters are settled? If she doesn't succeed, it's just another invasion. Or...rebellion? No, foreign impact is big, so invasion. I think we should just literally call it "Daenerys Targaryen's invasion of Westeros". For now.
As for "Great War", damn it, every Fantasy series has an apocalyptic "Great War" in which the forces of good make a final stand against the forces of darkness. StarCraft had a "Great War". Why is it never "The Big War"? Or "The Final War"? Crud. Well, "Great War" is the only ad hoc term they've been using in trailers so far so that makes more sense to use as a placeholder name.
I think we'll treat the "Conflict Beyond the Wall" as a preceding conflict to the "Great War", ending with Hardhome. Comparison: Spanish Civil War to World War II. It ain't exactly going to be "beyond" the Wall for long.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:29, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Fair point. We don't know if the Targaryen dynasty will truly be restored. The stage of the conflict, as far as we know, is an invasion. I'll help out on it as well, if you don't mind.

This leads me to wonder about the War of Five Kings though. That article still needs a drastic cleaning up. I suppose we should consider it... concluded, in a way. I mean, it's a prolonged conflict really, but Daenerys's campaign is separate from the "five kings."

Here's to our Great War! If a war ever was great. Reddyredcp (talk) 23:31, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Another Season 7 Trailer Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 16:20, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Cast Portal

Hey. Can you review my changes to the cast portal when you've got a minute? I would suggest Qyburn be switched with Jorah (he has his own arc this season trying to cure his Greyscale), and Benjen be switched with Beric. - Xanderen signature 09:03, June 25, 2017 (UTC)


Just wondering, why did you remove the shields on the ironborn gallery? MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 00:08, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

Oh...I hit "revert" because you accidentally added the title line "The Stormlands" into the Iron Islands Gallery.

I'm not sure if the artwork you loaded up matches our "reasonable extrapolation from an animated featurette" standard. Probably. As Xanderen, he's the Admin who's more closely been dealing with heraldry stuff.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:29, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

Kk, no problem. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 07:19, July 8, 2017 (UTC)


Are we promoting any new admins ahead of Season 7? - Xanderen signature 12:09, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

...I wasn't planning on it. I don't know what the other Bureaucrats want.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:30, July 9, 2017 (UTC)

I was going to suggest someone if you were... maybe we should wait and see who comes back next week? - Xanderen signature 14:53, July 9, 2017 (UTC)


Could you please update the Episode category page, as it hasn't been done so since mid-Season 6. Thanks. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 17:26, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

Ack, I have a lot of catchup to do later in the week (I have a job interview tomorrow).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:21, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

Your videos

I just wanted to leave a message saying that I recently happened upon your Youtube channel while watching Alt-Shift-X, and while me and you could disagree on some points, your videos, particularly on the Battle of the Bastards, Dorne, and Cersei, were very in-depth, interesting and informative. Great videos again, you really know your stuff. The Wiki wouldn't be what it is without you. Volvlogia (talk) 21:48, July 9, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I really enjoy your videos too. As much as I still love this show, your videos definitely make me see things differently.--Shaneymike (talk) 02:09, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

....I was worried everyone would think I was yelling like an idiot. Because I do yell a lot. I have no illusions about my buffoonery and my ranting. Yet rant I must...

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:21, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

Indeed. I don't know if you saw it earlier but I added a note to the Home article discussing how Katstark's actions made little to no sense...just stand by and let Ramsay murder the rest of his own family after Roose killed his father's executioner. There's gratitude for you. I still love the show for its action sequences and other stuff but yeah the writing has definitely gone downhill from Season 5 onward.--Shaneymike (talk) 15:54, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion moderators

Hey. I was just wondering if you'd given much thought to this yet? I've been doing some research by looking into how things are done on the Harry Potter Wiki... it seems that there is no degree of separation between the wiki proper and these "discussion forums". So, unlike the ICR, where we have "Chat Moderators" who can kick people out of the chat room without affecting them on the main wiki there is no real usergroup for Discussion Mods. The ones on the HP Wiki are purely ceramonial... they're like umpires at a tennis match saying "quiet, please"... If someone starts verbally abusing another user in a discussion, the mods tell them to stop, and if that fails they then report them to us to be blocked. - Xanderen signature 07:44, July 13, 2017 (UTC)


Hi, can I just check something with you? Are we too assume the characters in the cast section of "Dragonstone" are official and confirmed? If so, may we add charater appearences (the template) as we have done so for those mentioned in the summary (Dany, Jon, Tyrion ect.)? MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 17:41, July 13, 2017 (UTC) 

Also, could you just add to the home page that the next episode is "Dragonstone". MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 18:26, July 15, 2017 (UTC)

Nevermind. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 18:29, July 15, 2017 (UTC)


I CANNOT WAIT!!!!! We're getting close!!!! QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:15, July 15, 2017 (UTC)

It's great to see you here; you weren't on that much the past few weeks and I was starting to worry about the health issues you mentioned.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:07, July 16, 2017 (UTC)


I was told there was a "consensus" about certain images being used....that this happened? From now on, can you bring me into talks like this? Thanks. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:42, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

This is the first I've heard of this. I've really been trying to keep a hands-off approach to debating specific infobox images (besides warning that just because a pic is from the most recent episode doesn't automatically make it a good one, on a season-scale...)--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:07, July 16, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah User:Xanderen made it same like this was something voted on and ruled/deemed as what stands. It was the first I had heard of it since 7 years of being here. The images were always my sort of thing, so to return and edit, then have them all reverted was like... whoa.. wait a minute, you know? And health wise.. meh.. still struggle, but I'll live, thanks for asking. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 20:15, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind if he said that just to quiet an obstinate new editor. I wouldn't worry he's just juggling a lot of work. But now that you're here I leave it to your discretion (if I add a pic for a new character it's just a placeholder). --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:57, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Family tree templates

Hi, The Dragon Demands! I was wondering if there's a problem with editing templates such as this one by users who aren't admins. I changed the category for the deceased individuals with the one that's currently used on the Wiki. Seilare talk

Differences and references to the novels


I would like to ask if you intend to open a page for differences between the show and the books in respect of season 7. Although the show is ahead of the books, I found many differences. For instance, in the conversation between Euron and the Lannisters alone there are at least three: the woman whom Euron wants to marry, the reason for his exile and the fact it was not him but Victarion who destroyed the Lannister fleet during the Greyjoy's Rebellion.

I also request permission to add items to "In the books" section of Dragonstone (the episode), despite the line [This section will be updated with comparisons when the sixth novel is released.]'.' I think there are several items which are perhaps references to the published novels: Jon's intention to garrison castles with wildlings, someone suggests to destroy the Last Hearth, Sam finds old records about dragonglass, etc. Moonracer (talk) 05:23, July 18, 2017 (UTC)


Is it okay if I add Ebrose to the main page portal? Jim Broadbent has said he's going to be in every episode this season. - Xanderen signature 13:14, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

I also want to butt in and say I think either Beric and/or Thoros should be added, since they seem to be pretty relevant for the season. Reddyredcp (talk) 13:23, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

Family Tree Access

Is there a way to give me access to the family tree templates, assuming I'm allowed of course. With season 7 back I've returned and I'm more than happy to update out-of date templates and have been doing so in the past. I also created the family trees/various templates for the characters from the games and sent code to update various other trees to Ser Patrek befoe he disappeared which he thankfully uploaded for me.


JK1011x (talk) 00:11, July 19, 2017 (UTC)

Bit overwhelmed with Season 7 stuff; post it on their Talk pages to get Admin attention and see what you've got.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:31, July 24, 2017 (UTC)


Oh I know, I saw those too!!! We rival the show's actual numbers! haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:07, July 20, 2017 (UTC)


How do we remove these stupid spammer discussions? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:53, July 20, 2017 (UTC) Never mind, I figured it out. lol QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:55, July 20, 2017 (UTC)

Abandonment of Dragonstone

If the event is Daenerys's arriving, then it is a revival, but Stannis leaving is the abandonment of it. I'm confused, should rename this page to "revival" and make a new page for abandoned. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 15:01, July 21, 2017 (UTC)

Not enough material for two pages. I wanted "Abandonment" in the title to highlight how absurd it is to just....abandon a castle with no one else bothering to claim it for three years. There really isn't a good name option, we'll stick with this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:47, July 21, 2017 (UTC)


Two quick heraldry related matters: I'm anticipating potentially having to change the Tarly heraldry after tomorrow night's episode... I'm not sure if we're going to see any banners or anything, but Randyll is wearing a huntsman pin and it's very obvious (once again) that the art department has simply copied the one from AWoIaF. It was more obvious last year, with that leather breastplate thing he wore - the fine details, like the feather in the cap, the position of the sword belt, the angle of the bowstrings etc all matches perfectly... it's almost as if they forget they made their own design back in season four! Anyway, I know Tarly soldiers are going to be prominent this season, so hopefully they will provide a definitive design for us!

Secondly, I was wondering how you wanted to handle the Queensguard situation for Cersei? Her new guards don't wear white cloaks, so... can we just treat them as a whole new organization with new heraldry? - Xanderen signature 13:32, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Tarly turned out to be a non-issue... maybe next week. Could you make a ruling regarding the Queensguard please? - Xanderen signature 05:56, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

War of Five Kings

After on-and-off work for a couple months, I've rewritten a large part of the WOTFK article to clean it up and be more accurate. Given it would be a drastic change for a major article... I wanted to clear with you if this is appropriate to publish. I've put it up temporarily here and will remove it soon since it automatically interferes with some categories which is beyond my control. Thank you; I've really been wanting to get this one done for a while now. Did not want to leave it abandoned like Dragonstone and never look back on... Reddyredcp (talk) 23:50, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Article was such a mess that any improvement is welcome.

Separate question: we need a territory map as of the start of Season 7. Some were floating around end of Season 6. Showing:

  • Jon holds The North and the Vale.
  • Hash marks over the Riverlands and Stormlands which are weakly "held" by Lannisters.
  • Cersei holds Westerlands and Crownlands.
  • Reach and Dorne shaded for Daenerys (though apparently Tarlys switch sides to Lannisters? Plus Dragonstone.
  • Euron holds Iron Islands.

Just something provisional. I saw some months ago on here but don't know where they are now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:45, July 23, 2017 (UTC)

With the new and improved War of the Five Kings article, will this mean the removal of "War of the Five Kings (Phase I)" and "War of the Five Kings (Phase II)" from each article dedicated to an event from the war?
Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 06:39, July 23, 2017 (UTC)

In the main article we say "main phase" (before Red Wedding) and "late phase" (Seasons 4 through 6). Don't say "main phase" for things like "Battle of the Blackwater", it's tacitly assumed. At your discretion, add "late phase" to stuff from Seasons 4 to 6 like "Second Battle of Deepwood Motte".

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:23, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

Hello The Dragon Demands,

I am sorry for the image naming issue, you sent the message while I was going camping so I did not recieve it. I am not a vandalizer or troll, I now understand your image policy. So will using partial screenshots from a game of thrones scene from hbo be considered acceptable?  The photo below, i took a screenshot using snip tools. Is that allowed?
Mago fights drogo

Hello The Dragon Demands,

I am sorry for the image naming issue, you sent the message while I was going camping so I did not recieve it. I am not a vandalizer or troll, I now understand your image policy. So will using partial screenshots from a game of thrones scene from hbo be considered acceptable?  The photo below, i took a screenshot using snip tools. Is that allowed? Balochistan (talk) 04:58, July 23, 2017 (UTC)Balochistan
Mago fights drogo


This is not letting me post anything, it is still regarded as harmful, so we should continue which this on a talk page or something??????????????? MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 14:13, July 23, 2017 (UTC)

War of the Five Kings Phase Removal

With the recent alterations and improvements to the War of the Five Kings article, (specifically the removal of the two phases of the war) will this mean the removal of (Phase I) and (Phase II) from the events/battle articles concerning that particular war?

Kind regards,

Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 05:47, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

I would think so. - Xanderen signature 05:51, July 24, 2017 (UTC)


I can hardly post any messages and if I mention the problem in this it doesn't allow me to post it. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 21:25, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

S-p-e-l-l o-u-t t-h-e p-r-o-b-l-e-m w-I-t-h d-a-s-h-e-s --The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:50, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

T-h-e-r-e i-s a p-o-p u-p s-a-y-i-n-g t-h-a-t w-h-a-t I a-m p-o-s-t-i-n-g i-s h-a-r-m-f-u-l a-n-d t-h-e-r-e-f-o-r-e d-i-s-a-l-l-o-w-e-d. A b-r-i-e-f d-e-s-c-r-i-p-t-i-o-n o-f t-h-e a-b-u-s-e r-u-l-e w-h-i--c-h m-y a-c-t-i-o-n m-a-t-c-h-e-d i-s: W-a-t-c-h i-t w-a-t-c-h i-t e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e W-H-Y I-S T-H-I-S C-R-O-P-P-I-N-G U-P E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E--E MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 22:04, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

That's bizarre and I don't know what to do. Other than clearing all cookies and restarting computer. Do you use source mode or visual mode? Try source mode. Crud.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:45, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps clearing cookies AND cache. Then restart and log in again. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:23, July 25, 2017 (UTC)
I a-m f-a-c-i-n-g t-h-e s-a-m-e p-r-e-d-c-i-c-a-m-e-n-t; I a-m a-l-s-o u-n-a-b-l-e t-o e-d-i-t t-h-e c-a-t-e-g-o-r-y p-a-g-e f-o-r S-e-a-s-o-n 7.
Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 09:34, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
M-e t-o-o! C-h-e-c-k t-h-e a-b-u-s-e l-o-g. I-t h-a-p-p-e-n-s i-f y-o-u c-o-p-y t-e-x-t i-n-t-o t-h-e e-d-i-t-o-r o-r w-r-i-t-e a l-o-n-g t-e-x-t o-r u-s-e t-h-e T-a-l-k m-a-n-y t-i-m-e-s a d-a-y. O-n-c-e y-o-u-r-e i-n t-h-e f-i-l-t-e-r, I-t t-a-k-e-s h-o-u-r-s t-o g-e-t o-u-t. 
Khalkovarro (talk) 09:47, July 27, 2017 (UTC)Khalkovarro

C-o-u-l-d y-o-u u-p-a-d-a-t-e C-e-r-s-e-i-'-s p-a-g-e t-o t-h-e e-v-e-n-t-s o-f S-t-o-r-m-b-o-r-n s-a-m-e f-o-r J-o-n. MedusaandPoseiden (talk) 14:11, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Maesters heraldry

The Citadel apparently does have its own sigil of sorts - a circular golden chain, made up of twelve links. - Xanderen signature 08:40, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Euron's sigil

The bardings on Euron's horse show a silver kraken with a red eye! I'm going to suggest that he simply modified the existing Greyjoy sails as a stop-gap due to time constraints, and that items he has had newly made for himself show his sigil proper. - Xanderen signature 05:35, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Nah, that's just a limited color palette. I mean we've seen white lions on black before for Lannisters. He's had YEARS to put a different sigil on the sails of the Silence. It's not a change.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:09, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Look at the screenshot I just uploaded, the Kraken itself is a different shape... and not if it's a new sigil since being made king. - Xanderen signature 06:11, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Euron Greyjoy, Master of Ships

Is he the new Master of Ships?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:05, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Email from yesterday

Hello! I sent you an email yesterday and just wanted to make sure you received it (in case it went to spam or something). Please let me know if you're interested in the opportunity. Thanks! -BertH @fandom (help forum | blog) 21:09, August 4, 2017 (UTC)

Wait, which e-mail? I assumed you meant the Community Central update? I responded there. What opportunity? I'm writing up a longer review thread in the forum - in the Administration section - but we're heading into a new episode tomorrow night so I'm juggling work on both fronts, and will have to get back to it incrementally. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:13, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
It was an opportunity to talk with someone about the wiki, but Greater good has followed up so I think we're all set. Thank you! -BertH @fandom (help forum | blog) 17:31, August 7, 2017 (UTC)


Hello Dragon! "Elia Sand" is a nice idea, but I'm afraid, that the whole thing is use- and hopeless! Dorne was messed up in such a way that we can forget it. Very shameful. And just one thought, the only way to put things right would be to introduce bookcharacters at this point with the explanation that they were presumed dead or disappeared a while ago! --Exodianecross (talk) 23:04, August 4, 2017 (UTC)

I know, I know. Now we are truly lost.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:36, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
Not entirely. As I said before, if characters would be introduced now, with the explanation that they disappeared a while ago and/or were presumed dead, that would give the opportunity to put things right. I could tell a few names, but I'm afraid, that would be wrong. But if I may, one thing was also obvious: Euron killed or imprisoned the Sands, yes, but the army of Dorne is still there, right? The Tyrell army was obliterated, but it seems that Dorne still has a military power. Another thing that should be cleared, if the producers want to introduce a little bit more sense in this chaos. I really believe Dragon that it wasn't a good idea to adapt a TV show after a series of novels BEFORE the last book was written and published. GOT is still a high class series, but the "compromises" that were done led to bad storyarcs! --Exodianecross (talk) 16:36, August 6, 2017 (UTC)

The TV show isn't even going to bother to explain what happened to Dorne's armies.

Even though, as presented, Yara's fleet was attacked before it reached Dorne, on its way to pick up Doren's unblooded full-strength armies.

So did Dorne just degenerate into chaos? Infighting? They simply don't care. We have to face the harsh reality that we care more about such things than the perpetually drunk and flippant TV writers.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:22, August 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid that you are right. But maybe at the end everything will be cleared, with a Princess that was omitted so far, and maybe another dragon... --Exodianecross (talk) 23:26, August 7, 2017 (UTC)

Tumbleton battle

I've gone ahead and written up the remaining parts to the Third Battle of Tumbleton. Would you mind unlocking the article so I can add it in, or can I give it to you? Thanks. What'd you think? Reddyredcp (talk) 04:35, August 7, 2017 (UTC)


So... there is a new Tarly sigil. Dammit, we need a good quality image. - Xanderen signature 06:18, August 7, 2017 (UTC)

New Tarly sigil? Specifically when? Are you sure it isn't just a variant? (sometimes they have those within the same episode).

I'm going to try to grab a shot of Bronn's gold the Smith's hammer, seven years in and we still don't have a good shot of the god-damned Gold Dragon prop coins. Damn.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:02, August 7, 2017 (UTC)

Season 7 script leak

I found an article from October 2016 which claimed to leak the entire script for season 7, and it's been 100% accurate for the first 4 episodes so far. It's making the rounds again on some subreddits and on Imgur, we might want to watch out for spoilers for the next few days. DRAEVAN13 11:29, August 8, 2017 (UTC)

(shrug) they get broad things right but minor details wrong. I.e. "Sansa acts like a bitch" is kind of in the eye of the beholder.

I'd rather that the hackers got a hold of some internal e-mails revealing what the HBO producers really think about Benioff and Weiss. That would be hilarious.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:27, August 8, 2017 (UTC)

GRRM moved away from writing for the show after season 4... that should say something. KaTiON (talk) 02:55, August 11, 2017 (UTC)


I don't suppose you're able to make it into the chat room this evening? I just want to run something by you quickly. - Xanderen signature 19:21, August 11, 2017 (UTC)

No worries, I'll try and catch you at some point over the weekend. - Xanderen signature 21:13, August 11, 2017 (UTC)


Care to explain what this means? I've noticed a large amount of hate towards book readers in the Game of Thrones fandom and I wanted to make a blog post about why that may be and post it on the discussions page. Whenever I try to publish it, this happens. The screenshot I took ended up overwriting the blog post when I saved it and, thus, I have lost about five pages of work that took me an hour to write...may I ask why?

...odd. I've never seen an auto-generated warning like that before and didn't know how it could exist.

A helpful tip, which I often forget myself, is if you're writing a very long post in a single burst, write it offline in a notepad or Word file first, then copy-paste - that way if the browser crashes you won't lose everything.

Try to make a basic Blog post first, then click "edit" to add in what you wrote offline a few paragraphs at a time. If problems persist check back.

Oh there isn't a large amount of "hate towards book fans" in fandom - not after Season 5's awful Dorne storyline and invented Sansa rape kind of demonstrated warnings that had been going on for years, that the showrunners really don't know what they're doing (and to be blunt, they've shown up openly drunk to every major public appearance since Season 4, including their own San Diego Comic Con panel). Smug refusal to even justify their changes: "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen" etc.

Frankly, even most TV-only viewers understand and acknowledge that it is a book adaptation.

There's a ...really vocal minority, unfortunately, who built up TV-only fansites or news groups, only watching the show on a celebrity-culture level; "Wow, look at Kit Harington's face in this!" "yeah, but Jon Snow's actions in this episode make no plot sense".

It's not really books vs TV series at this point, but angry former TV fans versus blind TV fanatics. I can even accept someone who still likes the show while acknowledging its flaws. But I've seen some people...defending TV Dorne. Because they feel the TV show can do no wrong, just because they like it. Hype viewing, etc. And yeah there's a few hyper-purist book fans....but we're well beyond "they cut out the older Tyrell brothers, who were minor characters in the novels" to "dear god, TV-Dorne is so wacky it's downright racist". It's not bad just because it isn't like the books - though the books are a ready template for "this is how to do a similar idea well, without convoluted plot mechanics".

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:20, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

I've experienced this same message when trying to edit my own user page, category pages, templates, and even other users talk pages, even though nothing that I add to these pages and templates could be classes as abusive in any way, shape or form. I am unable to submit onto talk pages if I link my signature.
Queen of the Andals and the First Men

...very strange. I have no idea what's causing that. Do you have a template in your signature or something? Try asking User:XD1 or one of the other Wikia tech staffers.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:36, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

There are only links to my user page and talk page in my signature.

Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 01:39, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

Hm, it worked this time. Curious...

Queen of the Andals and the First Men (talk) 01:39, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

Rhaegar edit: Gilly (Eastwatch)

I have not added any spoilers to the Rhaegar page, nor have I added any information that is not from Eastwatch. However, my my edit was needlessly reversed.

Gilly (reading a diary): This High Septon Maynard, he recorded everything. He even recorded his own bowel movements. What does "annulment" mean?

Sam: It's when a man sets aside his lawful wife.

Gilly: Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for a Prince "Ragger" and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne. Is that a common thing in the south or--?

Sam: These maesters they set me to the task of preserving that man's window counting and annulments and bowel movements for all eternity, while the secret to defeating the Night King's probably sitting on some dusty shelf somewhere, completely ignored.
Read more:

QueenBuffy says that I added spoilers, and that "she" (Gilly?) didn't say "those things".

  1. Gilly mispronounced Rhaegar as "Ragger".
  2. She mentioned that the marriage happenedd in Dorne.
  3. She did not mention Lyanna's name.
  4. She did not mention Elia's name.
  5. She did say that the annulment was followed by a marriage.

Schieftain (talk) 17:27, August 14, 2017 (UTC)schieftain

I would just outright say that they're dropping that Rhaegar married Lyanna Stark, or say "implying he married Lyanna". But we're going to be doing some heavy revisions on the "Rhaegar Targaryen" page in the next few days hashing out this specific issue. You may want to hold off for a while as we get things sorted out, it will be a major project.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:53, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you - Gilly and the diary

I don't understand what there is to "hash out".

Of course, Rhaegar married Lyanna Stark.

However, when writing up what happened in the episode, one shouldn't write that Gilly said that *Lyanna* married Rhaegar, because that is not what she said. It's not that difficult to just report on the dialogue instead of adding things, but some users are so sloppy (*some* users, some are just great). :)

One can say that it can be inferred that Lyanna married Rhaegar, or that one thinks the showrunners are implying this because the marriage happened in Dorne, and Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna. However to say that Gilly said things that she didn't say isn't right.

I repeat that I was accused of posting spoilers, and that I wrote that Gilly said things that she didn't. I did neither.

Thank you.

Schieftain (talk) 03:03, August 15, 2017 (UTC)schieftain

Some debate it, I don't. But it's a massive update which will take some days to implement. I have to sleep some time you know. I just finished yet another 15,000 word set of episode notes (ack)...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:06, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

Seven Hells!

Episode 706 has leaked!... apparently HBO Spain aired it by mistake, as happened last year with the season premier... the torrent sites got hold it before anyone could blink. To the barricades! - Xanderen signature 12:43, August 16, 2017 (UTC)

Jesus, first the whole season 7 script leaks in November 2016, then episode 4 leaks, now episode 6... HBO's pretty leaky these days. DRAEVAN13 13:01, August 16, 2017 (UTC)
Sadly, by protecting only some pages, you tip people off there's something to spoil about the character. :/ Because some people are too curious for their own good.
Could you maybe delete the revisions? If you delete the page and restore everything but the spoiler edit and revert, it's gone from view. I did for one of my wikis when the tail end of a season got spoiled. --Tupka217 13:03, August 16, 2017 (UTC)

Benioff and Weiss inspire no love or loyalty. People aren't trying to defend their secrets.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:04, August 16, 2017 (UTC)

While Protecting pages tips people off that something happens next episode....the number of people who edit on here is a small fraction of the total readership.

Think through what you're saying. "Wow, we can't protect the Randyll Tarly page, people will think something happens to him next episode!"....the alternative is what? Scrutinize the page every minute of the day to instantly revert spoiler updates to it? EITHER WAY the wiki-editors would see it. We're protecting the casual readers.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:04, August 16, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't protect it. Just listing an unfortunate side effect. --Tupka217 14:11, August 16, 2017 (UTC)

Proper name page

Is this page: Fall of Highgarden supposed to be that, or "sack of highgarden" as the page itself repeats? I'm trying to change the featured article to a newer event, and it's confusing me. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 04:24, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

...I'm not sure. I myself would go with "Fall of Highgarden" because we didn't even see a siege.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:31, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

Jumping in here - I think it should be the Sack of Highgarden because the Lannister / Tarly forces did sack the place and hauled off all the gold and food. There is no rule that a sack can only follow a siege, right?

On the flip side, shouldn't it be Fall of Casterly Rock, not Siege of Caterly Rock. There was no siege but the Unsullied did not sack anything since everything of value was already removed before the Unsullied took it.

Regards, Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:33, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

I'll leave this up to you boys. :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:35, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

...On further reflection, I agree with McShield - emphasize that it's a "Sack" and they didn't intend to hold it. So "Sack of Highgarden" it shall be. Let the ravens go forth.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:10, August 19, 2017 (UTC)

-nods in agreement- I shall fix the featured article :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:17, August 19, 2017 (UTC)

Pages locked

Why is every character locked? Went to edit Throros of Myr and the Dragon that died in Ep6 but I can't. Every character is locked. C'mon. Have some trust in your users, please?

Ruffian1020 (talk) 02:12, August 21, 2017 (UTC)

Because we get anywhere from 2-6 million views a day here and you wouldn't believe the spoilers. We had to keep them that way until everyone has seen the new episode. I will start unlocking them. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:19, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
Andddd the Jon Snow page is getting outof hand already :( QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown

Actually I just went ahead and protected it again. Way too much happening on it for us to keep a sharp eye on it. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 04:36, August 21, 2017 (UTC)

Costume articles

Added a few little things here in there for Season 7. But I know it wont be like you want it lol. Still, hope it helps when you tweak/mess with it later. :) Also, here is a latest vid from Michele Clapton. Not sure if you've posted it yet or where it went exactly HERE. :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:22, August 23, 2017 (UTC)

I know, I've got a list of backlogged info to go through.

One thing I want to do is break up "Major characters" into smaller articles on major characters, very specifically Daenerys, Cersei, Margaery, Sansa, and while we're at it Brienne (she doesn't fit into any of the other categories easily). Might possibly grow into others later (like, two years from now, when we want to hyper-analyze Tyrion's costume shifts as a reflection of his attitude from one scene to the next).

Upwards and onwards. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:35, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I was thinking they definitely needed breaking up somehow :) One day we'll tackle it :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 01:00, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Possible finale leak

Apparently a group of hackers called "Mr Smith Group" have the season 7 finale and are demanding 6.5 million US$ to not release it. HBO said they won't comply so we might get another slew of leaked spoilers. DRAEVAN13 15:36, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Thrillist interview

Hey, I wasn't sure if you'd seen this yet? - Xanderen signature 09:32, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Your thoughts on this?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:47, August 26, 2017 (UTC)
I was thinking we could feature it on the main page somewhere. - Xanderen signature 14:28, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Preparing for finale

Should we go ahead and protect certain high trafficked pages to "Admin only" status for the next few days? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 21:09, August 27, 2017 (UTC)

Yes. I don't want a repeat of last year, where the core wiki staff got overwhelmed for a month before we could regain control.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:56, August 27, 2017 (UTC)

Alright. I'll start getting some that I think may get overwhelmed. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 23:35, August 27, 2017 (UTC)

Real quick...

Can you meet me in chat real quick. I have an idea I want to throw past you. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 03:08, August 28, 2017 (UTC)

Cast in The Dragon and the Wolf

I tried to edit cast, but saw it was locked. There I wrote the cast down like on the page and I send you this so you can update the article.


Guest Starring


--Mesmermann (talk) 15:09, August 28, 2017 (UTC)|


I sent you an email. lol QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 19:12, August 28, 2017 (UTC)

Arya Stark article locked (Reason?)

Hello TDD,

I saw you locked Arya Stark indefinitely and was wondering what the reason is? I looked over the edits starting from mine going forward so i'm not sure what prompted this. TessaVarzi (talk) 14:37, August 29, 2017 (UTC)TessaVarzi

Emails again

Please check your email :) Have a question. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 20:10, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

Aegon and Rhaenys' legitimacy

What are your thoughts on this? I dismissed it out of hand when I first saw people labeling them as bastards, but according to Elio and Linda it's by no means as simple as that. - Xanderen signature 15:36, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

Re: They seriously ended it just like that?

You obviously haven't read the replies but I expected seven seasons because there are going to be seven books, if George R. Martin gets back to it. No I didn't expect all the villains to die in Season 6, just Ramsay and the High Sparrow (and I was hoping for Walder Frey too, which came true) because I figured Cersei and the Night King would be the main villains for Season 7.

I'm all too familiar with the concept of cliffhangers coz I waited 10 years for Voldemort's defeat and that made my patience run dry, I really hate cliffhangers, especially since with the way the world is I always get the feeling I might either die or lose my home before then. I have known people who didn't live to see some long-awaited events, including the aforementioned Voldemort when Harry Potter was one of their favorite series. There have been some disasters in some places this year and the victims, living or dead, can never watch another Game of Thrones episode again.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even expecting Joffrey to die in Season 4, I was expecting them to hold off until Season 7 and the dragons incinerate him with a blast of flame, or else that he'd win somehow. Season 4 was when they started killing major villains outside of Daenerys's story (exception being Craster in Season 3, who was a necessary evil). There aren't a whole lot left by now (aside from the reformed Theon, Jaime, and Melisandre, and the semi-reformed Ellaria who took Daenerys's side but stands by what she did, the only ones left are Cersei, the Night King, Qyburn, Euron, the zombified Mountain, and possibly Unella depending on whether or not the Mountain is finished with her yet).

And I'm not even sure Season 8 will be final season. And if it is, either the Night King or Cersei might win coz this is one of the most mature shows I've seen, and Ned and Robb both lost. KillRoy231 (talk) 18:36, September 3, 2017 (UTC)

Viserion and Ice Dragon

Can you contribute to the talk page? Thanks. Also, why is the ice dragon page protected indefinately anyway? Lightning Laxus (talk) 17:34, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'm wondering why Ice dragons is protected as well. I looked over the revision history and i'm not seeing what prompted this nor do i see a reason given especially since the last edit by User:Joanna1993 is dated to 3/14/2017 (5 months ago from the date the article was protected). Please remove the protection or consider discussing this on the talk page. TessaVarzi (talk) 21:29, September 6, 2017 (UTC)TessaVarzi

Taking a break

I'm sorry, but I'm just too aggravated with the wiki right now. Too many people hounding me, things I don't agree with are happening and I think it's best I just step aside for awhile. On top of being diagnosed with my liver disease, I was also recently diagnosed with an incurable autoimmune disease... I'm living in hell right now health wise and this wiki does nothing to help me...if anything it only makes things worse. Best of luck. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 13:52, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Dear god.

Well...with the wiki at least, the burst of activity after a season finale is always expected and is dropping back to safe levels.

Crud. Damn it, crud.

What things didn't you agree with? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:24, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Brightened Image

I have recently added this to our image policy:

  • Dark images need to be categorized with "Image (Brighter image needed)", yet ONLY admin's have the rights to actually brighten the image itself.

Just wanted to give you a heads up, if you see just any user trying to edit the images and tweak them. It could easily get out of hand. There is one user that has helped me and has done a good job. I will give her the opportunity to continue, since I've seen her work and trust her. Anyway, just wanted to past this on. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 21:21, August 7, 2016 (UTC)

Back after wiki break

After work was done on the Season 6 finale, which aired on June 26, I sort of fell into a long wiki-break from mid-July until now in mid-November, around 3-4 months. Very exhausted after all the work in Season 6, little happening in the news, and we were all kind of overwhelmed in early July by the massive amount of editing going on from the post-finale surge (dear god, 9 million site visits in a single day?! Regular on-season traffic is 1 million. I even suggested "haha maybe it will reach 7 million by the finale" as a sarcastic boast after episode 5 broke a new record).

But the primary reason was that there was a death in the family and I really had to deal with that real life stuff. Yes, I theoretically could have been editing, but as anyone who's been here long enough has seen, in the past I've freaked out and posted angry when personal life stuff has been bad in real life, i.e. stress of writing my thesis to get my MA around Season 3 ish.

So this time I did the smart thing, and realized if I had been on the wiki regularly, I would have gotten into fights with everyone.

So I stepped back while things calmed down and did some offline work I could do individually (I made this series of convention panels which I turned into lecture videos on youtube about "Gender and Sexuality in Game of Thrones").

But I left to remove myself from the equation. Staying when I was so nuts would only have caused trouble.

I hope this isn't remotely comparable to when prior posters left with months without explanation then seemed surprised when we got upset.

This is an explanation but not an excuse: yes I should have been active on here and lost a good 3 months or so, but at least it was utterly within the off-season fallow time; but I'm back now in time for the Blu-ray Histories and Lore releases.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:45, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Glad you're back, TDD. Some of us here were really worried about you, but we're all happy you're doing fine now.--SharkeyBytesz
What Sharkey said.--ShaneyMike
Welcome back, Dragon! -- Crappyscrap
Welcome back!! Hope all is better now.--QueenBuffy

It's good to see you back. Hope you're well? - Xanderen signature 09:32, November 14, 2016 (UTC)


The vids on the top of each page. Is that a Wikia staff thing? If we can remove them, is that a possibility? UGH, I hate those types of things. They become more of a nuisance than anything else for me. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 16:51, July 24, 2017 (UTC's a looong story. I'll write more in a few hours.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:24, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

K. Thanks. As someone who doesn't even have sound hardware working on their laptop, it's such a nuisance when trying to edit. haha QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:45, July 25, 2017 (UTC)
I've been meaning to say... weren't we supposed to have some input on these? - Xanderen signature 05:53, July 25, 2017 (UTC)
Is there a way to block the videos? Does pop-up blockers work? QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 18:55, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

You still never mentioned what's up with these videos on each page :( Also, I think it's time to archive your page boo. :) QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 04:06, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

Character season tabs

Would it interest you to perhaps put season tabs on character articles? Like this here ?? It would shorten the length of pages tremendously. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:22, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

Overburdened with work, I haven't forgot about the e-mail, but it merits a long response.

Yes, I'm increasingly leaning towards tabs. I've perused other wikis which use them well. I hope it aids load time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:43, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

No rush then on the email, it isn't all that important. lol But I agree about the tabs. It would help the reader to navigate so much easier. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 02:58, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

Harvey and Flooding

I /may/ be slow in editing. The storm is about to come through us... it's already flooding the interstate 10 and areas where my hometown is. It's also flooded my brother's home. I have MANY friends who have lost everything. This is unreal!

Keep us in your prayers. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 20:54, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

....Whoa.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:55, August 31, 2017 (UTC)

Please check email. I'm going there now. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 00:11, September 1, 2017 (UTC)

Queen Tantrum here

New email has been sent you. It needs to be regarded with "High priority" Thank you. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 18:06, September 10, 2017 (UTC)

I'm devoting my full attention to it now, I'm sorry I didn't sooner.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:34, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

We can get through this. It's going to take a lot of work, and I kept getting delayed.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:24, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

Also, sent you one more email before I go to the docs. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:45, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

Xanderen blocked

This is just insane.

Xanderen criticizes QueenBuffy (which he had every right to do). She gets a tantrum and Xanderen gets blocked.

I'm really questioning the judgmental abilities of the administrators at this point. SharkyBytesz (talk) 09:18, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

This goes beyond that user:SharkyBytesz. He is also an admin and I have go on his behavior also, not just his word "tantrum". I have logs of things, but again, this doesn't concern you at the moment and only stirs the pot. Also, his "block"was for a cooling off period of 24 hours so that he'd stop hounding me about things. Thank you. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:40, September 11, 2017 (UTC)
But what kind of "behaviors" did he show? To me, he seemed respectful, professional, and one confronting statement about you was enough to outright silence him? I think it's in my right to ask you this, since this is sure to raise some eyebrows about you and TDD within the community. SharkyBytesz (talk) 15:47, September 11, 2017 (UTC)~

There are ways and things we've done this wiki for nearly 7-8 years now.... ways I have described and taught people, again and again.... then there are those, who debate these reasons for some reason or another; saying I'm wrong, that it's a dumb idea (for lack of better words).There is a reason this Wiki has stayed the way it has.... very structured and aligned; it isn't because I am "putting my stamp of approval" on everything, or waving my "I'm better than, this idea is better" flag around... It's just this is how it has always been. Now then, when other bureaucrats and I begin to make changes, minor changes, that will HELP the wiki and I even start getting slack about THAT, like "Why didn't you involve everyone, not everyone wants that, that isn't fair, yada yada"... I am unable to do my editing duties around here, to keep this "well-oiled machine" as I have called it going. I can't keep getting hounded by someone who doesn't agree with the way things work around here. And as far as Xanderen. I am the one who promoted him to Admin even! I knew he had potential and I appreciate the sigil work and what not. But why step on my toes and complain about my work or revert my work all the time? There is a history of me having to explain images, and yes while "Images" may seem like small potatoes to some people, here, once again...we are strict. This /is/ a strict Wiki. I have always been cool and calm around here and pride myself on that. But being sick... having my brother's and friends homes flooded by Harvey and dealing with more personal issues, I cannot and will not constantly be bombarded with talk complaining on why or why not I'm doing something. If I did something on here, it was for a reason...end of story. It wasn't to make others lives miserable, or point them out in any bad way... it was just doing a job to make things going smoothly as I have been since 2011. I hope some of this made sense, and frankly I apologize if this does sound harsh also. I am on a time crunch as it is. I harbor no ill-will toward anyone and still appreciate all the work people do on here... but in return we want respect also. Thanks. QueenBuffy35px-Pink crown 15:57, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

I'm reviewing everything now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:37, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

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