Hi, welcome to Game of Thrones Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the House Frey page.
We welcome all contributions to the Wiki but please be aware of the following simple rules:
1) This wiki is meant for the Game of Thrones TV series and the TV alone. Spoilers from the novels are not permitted at all. Discussion of earlier events in the novels and the use of non-spoiler background material from the novel as regards specific events, characters and places in the TV series are allowed (in the 'In the books' section of an article) but future events cannot be discussed.
2) This wiki has specific permission from HBO's marketing department to use a reasonable number of promotional images and screencaps from the series to illustrate articles. The use of other copyrighted images is not permitted without either specific permission or fair use attributions. For example, this Wiki cannot use Amoka's portrait images or Ted Nasmith's castle pictures as these are copyrighted. In addition, the Wiki is focused on the TV series and TV series alone. Images from other media should be avoided without a very good cause.
I'm sorry if English isn't your primary language, but you've been making some preposition mistakes.
I know that in Latin, "in" can mean both "within" and "atop". English "on" strictly means "atop". You've been writing things like "Jon said this on the third novel", "On the fourth novel, this happened". Books only use "in" instead of "on". I hope this helps.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:57, July 23, 2017 (UTC)
House Strong Extinct?
I saw you recently added the members of House Strong alive in A Song of Ice and Fire and was wondering if you knew why House Strong is considered "extinct" if members of it are still alive? I have not read the books and don't know if they provide an explanation since if there are members still alive, wouldn't that mean the House is exiled, not extinct?
Hi Ser Shield McShield,
I copied that information from the ASOIAF wiki, after checking its correctness in the books.
The house is indeed extinct. Note that the sentence says "The known Strongs during...", not "The known members of House Strong". The first two are perhaps members of House Strong (we know the third is definitely not) in exile, but it is uncertain, since in the free companies a man can call himself whatever he chooses.
Should the sentence "The known Strongs..." be rephrased for clarifying that point? Or should the whole paragraph be deleted completely? Moonracer (talk) 05:59, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
Don't delete the whole paragraph since maybe one of these Strongs shows-up in the show when the Golden Company does. Instead, please clarify that the Strongs in the books are not considered from House Strong and so House Strong is considered extinct.
Done. Moonracer (talk) 06:27, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for making the clarification. Looks good.
Thanks for correcting those errors I made - for some reason, I confused those two events (Bran's fall/catspaw assassin) and my brain completely blanked out there. Thank-you so much for your diligence and your checking for accuracy of events (including the participants of the mutiny at Castle Black). I appreciate it and I apologize for my errors in writing :)
You're welcome. :-) Moonracer (talk) 06:11, May 17, 2018 (UTC)
Pointing out my errors
"Wrong. Sam and Jon do not discuss the ice spiders"
Excellent work, ser.
...for several months you've been on the short list of regular editors I'd want to promote up to be new Administrators - of course, if you want the job. It is a lot of work and responsibility. But it would allow you to edit the pages we protect.
I accept. Thank you very much for the promotion! :-) Moonracer (talk) 05:01, June 19, 2018 (UTC)
May I ask when will my promotion come into effect? I would like to contribute more to the wikipedia, starting by editing the locked pages. Moonracer (talk) 14:52, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
Do you swear fealty to Game of Thrones Wiki and George R.R. Martin, in peace or war, living or dying, from this hour henceforth, until death takes you, or the world end? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:20, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
I solemnly swear. Moonracer (talk) 14:02, August 3, 2018 (UTC)
[Punches Moonracer, hard]
Hello, I was wondering how to create a link to another page while editing one? Only I couldn't figure out how to do that when I was editing the Janos Slynt page.--Stuart Wells (talk) 21:43, August 21, 2018 (UTC)
Please be more specific: do you wish to turn a word (or a phrase) in the page into a link, so when it is clicked on - it directs to another page, similarly to the highlighted words in the first line in the "Background" paragraph?
Or do you wish to add a link to the reference list in the bottom of the page?
BTW, next time, please open a new thread (I added the headline "Creating a new link" above your post in order to separate this thread from the former). Moonracer (talk) 04:57, August 22, 2018 (UTC)
You do not need to, because in the section "Season 2", first paragraph, the name Gendry already contains a link to his page. It is unnecessary to make similar links of further mentionings of Gendry's name - one per page is enough.
In order that you know how to make links in future editing, here is the simplest way:
- Press the "edit" of the specific section where you wish to make the link
- Mark the word(s) you wish to make a link of
- In the left upper corner, press the "Add link" icon (the third from the left)
- In the field "Target page or URL", write the title of the page to which you wish to make the link. You have to write it exactly as the title is written at the top of the target page, including capital letters. For instance, if you write "Battle of the blackwater" - it will not be accepted, since the word Blackwater is written with capital B in the title of the page
- It is not necessary to write a different text in the field "Text to display". It is up to you to leave it that way or write anything you see fit
- Once you get the message "Page exists", press OK.
- Press the "Publish" button.
- That's it. The link is created.
- After the edited page is uploaded, check the color of the word with the new link: if it is blue - you have made the link correctly; if it is red - something was done incorrectly. Edit it again.
I hope it helps. If you have further questions, I'd be glad to help. Moonracer (talk) 15:12, August 22, 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome. Moonracer (talk) 04:28, August 23, 2018 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/วิทวิน_ทำดี is at it again. See reply at bottom of Thread:42722. Recommend permablock since users only purpose for being here is quite clear (Posting spam). TessaVarzi (talk) 06:47, September 28, 2018 (UTC)TessaVarzi
I will see to that. Moonracer (talk) 11:44, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/Seomelon06 spam edits with links leading to casino type websites here Thread:59615, here Thread:59593, here Thread:57951 (See bottom of Thread:57951), here Thread:59511. TessaVarzi (talk) 15:49, September 28, 2018 (UTC)TessaVarzi
TessaVarzi, I appreciate you help to keep the wikipedia clean, but you do not need to notify whenever a spammer, who is already watched by administrators, posts a spam. The first time is enough. Moonracer (talk) 12:58, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
I'm going to create the page again (mainly with better references), but I'm going to ask you the favor that you do not bite so much and give me time to correct errors that users notice.Jon Humbert (talk) 22:33, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
It seems you have not taken heed of my criticism of your page.
As I repeatedly told you: you must create, edit and proofread - especially proofread - the whole page before you re-post it.
The correct order is not to post a page, wait till other users comment about errors, and then fix them.
You cannot post a page full of errors, as you did twice, and expect other users to perform the proofreading for you. If you cannot or refuse to do so - do not post it at all.
You have disobeyed my instructions. Now you leave me no choice but to delete the page and ban you. Moonracer (talk) 13:35, October 26, 2018 (UTC)
Sorry about that horror of mistakes on the king's landing page (and all the full stops)
Thanks for telling me what to do with that page i made a mess of.
I have a lot of free time and I am enthusiatic about the show and the wikia in general, so I hope to stay here for a bit.
You are welcome. If you need any guidance or assistance regarding this wikipedia, I shall be glad to help you.
Next time, when someone (not necessarily an administrator) posts a message in your personal talk page - it is preferable that you post your answer below it in your talk page, rather than in the talk page of the one who posted the original message. Moonracer (talk) 06:12, October 30, 2018 (UTC)
My Improper editions
I corrected what I could, I'm sorry I could not go beyond the linguistic barrier, I honestly think that both pages had problems of truth in front of the numbers that have MANY other pages (like Siege of Pyke or the liberation of Stones Hedge / Raventhree Hall)I would like to know if in the show the golden cloaks are duplicated in case of attack, apparently as in the books Jon Humbert (talk) 18:59, November 13, 2018 (UTC)
- I have no idea what you meant in your message. Next time, please phrase your messages clearly. Moonracer (talk) 13:50, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
- OK. Moonracer (talk) 13:50, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Ironborn Invasion of the North
I changed the infobox from "War" to "Event", which got rid of the "War" category. I also added links to the "Ironborn Invasion of the North" sub-category on the War of the Five Kings template. At some people, maybe we should create articles for the other campaign sub-categories in that template like "The Young Wolf's Campaign" and maybe a whole new infobox for said campaigns since they are actually more than one event. Shaneymike (talk) 15:58, November 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for fixing the category, Shaneymike. But now the problem is that half the infobox (not only the "conflict: War of the Five Kings" line) is not visible in the visual mode. :-(
- Could you fix that? Maybe a new category/infobox of "campaigns" should be created?
- That's a very good idea to create articles and new infobox for other campaigns. Moonracer (talk) 16:12, November 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Apology accepted, Shaneymike.
- Could you please help me with the new template for the page "Ironborn Invasion of the North"? See my message in your talk page from December 18th. Moonracer (talk) 09:16, December 23, 2018 (UTC)
I want to apologize to you and any book-readers who haven't yet been fully caught up for the spoiler I added to House Cole, and to the mods for my awkward writing in articles. I'm not completely used to writing in wikis yet. ProtectorOfTheSevenKingdoms (talk) 13:32, January 20, 2019 (UTC)
That's OK. In my opinion, you have been doing a great work in this wikipedia, and your writing is by no means awkward.
In the future, before posting items that perhaps are still considered as spoilers (for instance, "Griff" and "young Griff"), I suggest you ask one of the top administrators whether it is permitted, like I did (see the thread "Updating pages of omitted characters and differences" in The Dragon Demands's talk page). Moonracer (talk) 14:44, January 20, 2019 (UTC)
So I have a quick question; why does it say he is/was the Lord Paramount of the Trident in the first paragraph, but then in the bio it says he is/was Lord Paramount of the Riverlands?
17:07, January 20, 2019 (UTC)
The titles have the same meaning (see the first paragraph of "Lord Paramount of the Trident" page). You may replace the latter phrase with the former in Edmure's page. Moonracer (talk) 06:54, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
Does he get the small council nav box because he was the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard?
16:05, February 2, 2019 (UTC)
What do you think?
What do you think of this page I made Differences_between_books_and_TV_series_Master
12:14, February 12, 2019 (UTC)
Well, I do not think it is really necessary. IMO the category page is enough, since it already contains all those links (without the summaries).
BTW, you left out the differences page of season 7. Moonracer (talk) 12:21, February 12, 2019 (UTC)
- Oh, okay.
12:23, February 12, 2019 (UTC)
I deleted them. Very weird.
In-universe vs. out-of-universe
As far as I could tell, we wrote from the framework of an "in-universe" perspective, somewhat, in articles (with the exception of some sections like the "Notes" on episodic articles or the "In the books" sections), hence why I removed the mentions of specific events not being shown on-screen on the Ironborn Invasion of the North. Is this not the case? Only asking for clarification. Reddyredcp (talk) 10:02, February 21, 2019 (UTC)
First of all, Reddyredcp, I appreciate that you fixed the infobox so now the list of battles is shown.
Now, to your question: I made the page because I wanted to explore and describe the invasion deeply. I felt it was necessary to describe the military actions which occurred off-screen because they were integral parts of the whole invasion, rather than write down only what happened on-screen. It also explains why no exact or approximate numbers are written in the infobox. Maybe I should have written them as footnotes, but there was no reason to delete them totally.
Many of the changes you did were fine, but there are several flaws in your editing:
- The word "ironborn" should begin with a lowercase "i" (unless it is in the beginning of a sentence or as a headline). See the first footnote in the "Ironborn" page.
- You have to distinguish between important and redundant details, for instance:
- The Greyjoy Rebellion had some relevance to the invasion, but not so much that it should have been specified in such length as you did in the "Background" section. One sentence or two would have been sufficient.
- We all know that Catelyn is Robb's mother. There was no need to specify their kinship.
- It is not necessary to write each and every fact, like that Theon was baptized.
In the future, please refrain from overspecification when it is not necessary. Moonracer (talk) 12:07, February 21, 2019 (UTC)
Testing a featured countdown to the season premiere in your Discussions
Since the wiki's two active bureaucrats The Dragon Demands and Greater good haven't been around to respond yet, I'm messaging you and two of the other recently active admins here on the wiki. We'd love to hear this community's thoughts so we can get this started as soon as possible, so I hope you can forgive me for being so pushy and leaving you all messages! Please see if you can discuss this with the other admins, if they're around and see what you think.
The question at hand is whether this community would like to help us test a new post type for Discussions: A featured countdown at the top of your Discussions to the season's premiere. This will be tied in with our new landing page experiment, Community Feeds.
Please find details on this on The Dragon Demands' user page.
The sooner we can discuss this with you all, the sooner the test could start, which we hope will help all Game of Thrones fans who are super excited for these new epic episodes! Mira Laime (help forum | blog) 00:07, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
IMO it is a very good idea. I regret that I have a very limited knowledge about technical things, so I cannot help you with that.
The other active admisintrators (Ser Shield McShield, Shaneymike, Gotlvr87) know much more than I do. Perhaps they can help you. Moonracer (talk) 14:31, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
I am not sure it is a spam. I'll ask another administrator.
Thanks anyway for helping to keep the wikipedia clean. Moonracer (talk)
Theaters of the War of Five Kings
Inline with the Ironborn Invasion of the North article, I was wondering if you believe articles should also be created for the other "theaters" of the War of the Five Kings? This would be more consistent and standardized, although I can also see it being unnecessary given that the ironborn invasion was largely "separate" from the rest of the War of the Five Kings, which was largely intertwined and connected. Thought it was worth discussing, at least. Thanks. Reddyredcp (talk) 04:53, March 11, 2019 (UTC)
- I do not understand what you mean by "theaters". Are you suggesting to create articles for other campaigns which took place during the war, like Robb's campaign against the Lannisters? If that's what you mean, I believe it is a good idea.
- In fact, Shaneymike and I discussed that with The Dragon Demands (see this link). Moonracer (talk) 06:15, March 11, 2019 (UTC)
Hi, do you think we can treat Dyre Den as the seat of House Brune? In the books, House Brune of the Dyre Den is the main lordly branch of the family. --ProtectorOfTheSevenKingdoms (talk) 15:41, March 13, 2019 (UTC)
- You are right, but note that according to the novels - Lothor Brune (the only member of the house who appears in the show) belongs to the cadet branch, House Brune of Brownhollow, and in the show there is no distinction between the branches. For this reason, I am not sure it will be correct to add Dyre Den to the infobox of the house. I suggest you consult with one of the other administrators. Moonracer (talk) 15:58, March 13, 2019 (UTC)
Season 8 support
Hey, I’m Brandon from Fandom. I’m hoping to talk with you and all the other active admins about some ideas we have for how we can support Game of Thrones Wiki during Season 8. Do you mind if I include you on an email with the rest of the admins to send you some of those ideas? If so does the email address in your account work best? - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:17, April 9, 2019 (UTC)
- Definitely, Brandon. I shall be glad to hear your ideas. The email address in my account is fine. Moonracer (talk) 05:19, April 10, 2019 (UTC)
Greetings. TheDragonDemands said he had made you admin and I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm a bureaucrat here and don't think we've met. Anyway... welcome aboard and thank you for all your help! QueenBuffy 16:23, April 13, 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your greeting, QueenBuffy. It is a pleasure to contribute to this great wikipedia, as a user and as an administrator. :-) Moonracer (talk) 17:13, April 13, 2019 (UTC)
Gallery vs Image Galleries
Just a heads up as I clean up the galleries. Image galleries such as "Gallery: Jon Snow" needs to be categorized with Image Galleries (and Gallery if you wish) only. Other categorized pages, like "Category:Image of Object" need only "Gallery and Images", not "Image Galleries" Since it isn't a gallery like the "Gallery: Samwell Tarly" pages. https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Gallery - You will see ALL categories still here, so this change won't change too much. If you look at "https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Image_Galleries" You will now see that only the character and episode Image Galleries should be there. This just organizes it better. I've made the chances to the upload image rules for the Wiki. Let me know if this was too confusing or if you have questions. :) Now then, back to editing. QueenBuffy 16:04, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
I wrote the section on Heartsbane for Season 8. Several fans spotted Jorah wearing the sword in the trailer. Note the scene where he's on his horse you can see Heartsbane's hilt. --SonOfZeus1200 17:31, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
First of all, you should have opened a new thread.
Second, did you actually see Sam handing Jorah the sword? That did not happen yet. What the fans refer to is a shot from a trailer. You cannot add information about things that may happen, based on guesses. Maybe Sam will hand the sword to someone else? Moonracer (talk) 17:42, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
Please can you fix the starring cast list on 8x01's page, some people are not in the correct order and Jacob Anderson hasn't been added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CoyoteDork (talk • contribs)
- You are correct. I'll see to that. Moonracer (talk) 13:35, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
- You're welcome. :-) Moonracer (talk) 14:20, April 19, 2019 (UTC)
Hi. Could you re-add Daenerys Targaryen's categories? I think that they were wiped out when an image was added. I'd do it myself but it's locked (LOL). ABCXYZ12345678 (talk) 11:44, April 21, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 13:49, April 21, 2019 (UTC)
Aegon Targaryen VI
Sam calls Jon Aegon Targaryen VI and I feel like we should add it. As much as I would like to do it myself, I can't as the page is locked.
- I am not sure it is time to add the full title to Jon's infobox, if that's what you meant. Maybe we should wait till Jon's true identity is announced in public in the show, in a formal manner. As unlikely as it seems, who knows, maybe "Young Griff" (I assume you read the books and know who it is) will suddenly show up? I prefer to leave it to the decision of the top administrators.
- For now, I shall add what Sam said to "season 8" section in Jon's page. Moonracer (talk) 17:05, April 21, 2019 (UTC)
- Yes. At the right bottom corner of the thread, press "More", then "Remove", fill the field and mark the "Notify an admin" box. Moonracer (talk) 14:53, April 23, 2019 (UTC)
- I see. Maybe the aforementioned feature is available for administrators only. Well, I guess there is no other option but to report it on an admin's talk page. I'll erase that thread.
- Anyway, thanks for helping to keep the wiki clean. Moonracer (talk) 15:35, April 23, 2019 (UTC)
- What makes you think so? Moonracer (talk) 15:57, April 27, 2019 (UTC)
- In view of the last edits that user did, I believe you are correct. User blocked. Moonracer (talk) 15:47, April 29, 2019 (UTC)
Hmmm, same user?
I'm not sure honestly. So far the edits don't look too "troll-like", but we should keep an eye on her. I warned her about uploading image and our policy on how to. If that is ignored over and over again, I'd have a good feeling that it is indeed the same person. I hate when we have to "keep an eye out" for someone... like we really have time for that. LOL. QueenBuffy 18:42, April 27, 2019 (UTC)
- In view of the last edits that CerseiiLanisterr did, exactly the same violations CerseiBaratheon was warned not to perform, I believe it is the same user. I blocked CerseiiLanisterr. Moonracer (talk) 15:51, April 29, 2019 (UTC)
Hello my fellow Knight. Are you any good at templates? I wanted to tinker around with the idea of tabbers above each infobox for each season to show each character (in my sandbox of course). Do you have any idea how to add those? QueenBuffy 14:43, April 28, 2019 (UTC)
- Hi QueenBuffy,
- I'm afraid not. When creating new articles, it took me ages to find the correct templates, add them to the articles and fill them, and managed to only with the help of fellow administrators. I have no idea how create or edit templates. :-( Moonracer (talk) 14:52, April 28, 2019 (UTC)
- i figured it out :D I'll do it then show all the admins to see what you think :) QueenBuffy 14:57, April 28, 2019 (UTC)
Tabbers above infoboxes
- It is beautiful, QueenBuffy! :-) Moonracer (talk) 15:25, April 28, 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you so much!!! I'll wait to get people's feedback. I didn't show all the admins, only the ones I figured were on enough to really care. lolQueenBuffy 15:27, April 28, 2019 (UTC)
Night King vs Dragonfire
- Well, he stepped right through the flames and was unharmed. It was difficult to see whether he was among those who were directly engulfed by the dragonfire. Does it matter? Moonracer (talk) 05:04, May 2, 2019 (UTC)
Arya/Gendry impending edit war.
A new user, User:Robbstarksthot, is trying to change the lover statuses on Arya and Gendry’d page. An ignorant Gendrya fan most likely. I’ve reverted their edits with summaries, and posted on their message wall, but they decided to ignore the warnings and changed them back. Its an empending edit war and I’m wondering if there’s anything you can do to get them to stop. Openminds (talk) 04:45, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 04:51, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
Hi! I'm Hypsoline from the Fandom Staff. Can I talk to you on Discord (my user ID is Hypsoline#7530) if you're using it or send you an email at the address associated with your Fandom account? Let me know! :) Hypsoline (talk) 15:58, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
- Could you be more specific about what you wish to talk? Moonracer (talk) 16:50, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
"On-screen" in books
- The user Slowhand erased the phrase "on-screen" from Bronn's page, claiming "on-screen is an insane term to use for books". First of all, "insane" is totally irrelevant adjective; "wrong" or "incorrect" would have been better. Second, the phrases "on-screen" and "off-screen" are suitable not only for movies and TV shows, but also for books - in a metaphoric manner: when an event is reported, it happens "off-screen"; when it takes place right before the viewer/reader eyes - it is "on-screen". The quotation marks indicate it is not actually on-screen in the literal sense of the phrase. Moonracer (talk) 06:57, May 11, 2019 (UTC)
Full name redirects are always necessary. We can't just write "Robert" but "Robert Baratheon|Robert".
This is the kind of story where more than one character might have the first name, and they aren't always clear redirects. Yeah there isn't more than one "Samwell" NOW, but there might be in some future prequel...better example: more than one "Daenerys", and of court, multiple characters named "Lyanna" or "Robert".
It doesn't make sense to actively remove those. I mean if you're hurrying and just write "Jaime" as a link fine, but I can't understand why you've been turning "Jaime Lannister|Jaime" into "Jaime".....I already put the extra work in to type out the specific link. (I'm not yelling I'm just confused).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:52, May 12, 2019 (UTC)
- What I mean is that in the visual mode - there is no need to repeat the full names, and the links to their pages, more than one time per page. There are a lot of pages which not only nonstop repeat the full names and the links, but also their titles - which I think is redundant.
- For example, in Robert Baratheon's page, since the name "Daenerys Targaryen" (with the link to her page) appears in the paragraph of Season 1, it is not necessary to repeat her full name and the link in the paragraph of Season 8, because whoever reads the page - can understand you refer to the same character, not to the daughter of of Aegon IV (in the opposite case, it is necessary to write the full name to avoid confusion).
- For that reason, IMO the links of Daenerys, Melisandre and Arya in the paragraph of Season 8 - are redundant and should be removed.
- I get your point: you mean that in the source mode, the links (which include the full names) should be left as they are, while the part that the reader sees (in the visual mode) - can be just the first name. Okay, I'll see to that. Moonracer (talk) 05:34, May 13, 2019 (UTC)
- If it is a simple edit, you may write it down (here or in the "Talk" setion of the page) and one of the administrators will see to that. Moonracer (talk) 06:44, May 14, 2019 (UTC)
- I thought it'd be better if I did my work myself. It's a sentence. "When the wildfire below the city starts bursting, Jon orders his forces to retreat." Change it however you want if you think it's okay to add. I have informed another admin, but I don't think they'll be back for a while. If you wamt me to wait, that's okay. MatthewOne (talk) 06:47, May 14, 2019 (UTC)
- Need it to be added in Season 8 of Jon Snow's article at the end of the last para. MatthewOne (talk) 06:49, May 14, 2019 (UTC)
- In the future, it will be more efficient if you write your request in the "Talk" section of the specific article, rather than addressing the administrators. Moonracer (talk) 06:58, May 14, 2019 (UTC)
What to include in recaps/character pages/relationship summaries
Hi there! Me and another user are having a discussion on my talk page and I was wondering about the protocol for recap sections and character pages. My understanding was that recap sections/character pages/relationship summaries be summarized based solely on what happens on-screen, sort of like Wikipedia, without inferences as to possible motivations or unexpressed thoughts of that character. The other user feels differently (their reasoning is expanded on my talk page). However, I could be totally wrong so I thought I'd ask! :) The page in question is Daenerys Targaryen.
What is the proper protocol for recap sections/character pages/relationship summaries? Is there a set of guidelines and rules here for reference?
- Hi Adrianacandle,
- I am not sure whether there are rules regarding your question. I suggest you ask one of the top administrators (The Dragon Demands, QueenBuffy). Moonracer (talk) 04:57, May 19, 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, Moonracer!
Fandom Wiki Manager
Hello Moonracer! My name is HighJewElfKing, and I'm the Fandom Wiki Manager for Game Of Thrones Wiki. My job is to help the community and be a liaison to full-time Fandom staff. If you ever got a question or issue relating to the wiki, editing, etc., please contact me on my message wall and I'll do my best to help you out! :) (I’m a huge GOT fan also) Cheers!
- Thanks, I'll keep that in mind in case I need help. Moonracer (talk) 04:51, May 19, 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Moonracer. Just to clear it up, is it necessary to put banners of houses a person was part of in the past, but no longer. For example Sansa with Bolton and Lannister? MatthewOne (talk) 05:38, May 20, 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think so. Past connections to houses or organizations can be mentioned in the "Allegiance" field of the infobox (with the word "formerly"), but the banners should reflect the current status of the person in question. Moonracer (talk) 05:44, May 20, 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I was unsure of where exactly to leave this message, so I decided to begin this discussion on an administrator's talk page. With the final episode, there seems to be some conflict in regards to whom the Great Houses and their respective leaders/characters owe allegiance (as found primarily in their infoboxes). Some say Bran Stark, and others House Stark, and it's simply unclear, so I think it warrants discussion.
Personally, I believe that allegiances should be stated to be directly towards the King of the Andals and the First Men. The reasons for this is because the king is now apparently an elective position based on the permanent Great Councils, so there are no longer any "dynasties," thus ruling out House Stark. Furthermore, I believe saying that allegiance being owed to Bran Stark is too narrow, and I interpret this situation more to mean that the houses now owe their allegiance directly to the "office of the king," which Bran happens to hold now. But that doesn't necessarily mean they owe any special, specific allegiance to Bran himself as a person. Given that the Iron Throne has been destroyed, I think it should be said that allegiances are owed to the King of the Andals and the First Men rather than any throne.
I think you are correct, that allegiances should be directly towards the king. As for the king/throne issue - it seems to me as semantics only. Moonracer (talk) 19:47, May 20, 2019 (UTC)
- I asked for more specific details, and did not get an answer, but received an email. Since the name was not familiar, I deleted it. Moonracer (talk) 05:14, May 21, 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks but no thanks. Moonracer (talk) 14:03, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
Hello again Moonracer, the Lannister navbox has been locked since 2015 when Dragon Demands locked it. Cersei Lannister is still shown as the lord. Can you update it and replace her with Tyrion? Thank a lot. MatthewOne (talk) 13:44, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 13:52, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 13:52, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
In the navbox, can you please put Qyburn and Gregor Clegane's names in brackets since they are deceased now. Also, should Bronn be removed from the navbox now that he is his own lord? Thank you. NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 20:36, May 26, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 05:05, May 27, 2019 (UTC)
Hey Moonracer, it's been over a week since Cleganebowl has bene created. I think it should be deleted as only one vote has been put in its favour, everyone else is against it. MatthewOne (talk) 17:52, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
- I agree, but The Dragon Demands decided to keep it (see the topmost message in the "Talk" section of the page). Moonracer (talk) 04:56, May 23, 2019 (UTC)
The situation with Xanderen is going beyond control. He is threatening to block me after I complained to him against his use of powers in personal editing disputes and felt he was bossing people, including telling me I can't discuss something. There's no other user whose behavior I had a problem with here. I hope you can help in the issue. Thank you. MatthewOne (talk) 10:35, May 23, 2019 (UTC)
- I'm afraid not. I could help you if you had a problem with another user, but Xanderen is an administrator. In such case, you should contact one of the top administrators - The Dragon Demands, QueenBuffy, or Gonzalo84.
- I hope the matter will be settled peacefully. Moonracer (talk) 11:05, May 23, 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Moonracer. Quick question about the Old Gods and the New page. Jacks is listed as a visible character, but I have seen the episode countless times and have niot seen him. His actor is listed in the credits, but I was unable to see him in Robb's camp. Any help would be appreciated ----Braeden32
- Look at this youtube clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feFWqEfKm28 in 18:58. Does the guy on the right side of the screen look like him?
- Next time, please start a new thread to separate your inquiry from the former inquiry (I added the headline "Jacks" for that purpose). Moonracer (talk) 13:09, May 25, 2019 (UTC)
(Reply) Thanks, Moonracer. But the clip you sent me is from A Man Without Honor whereas in the preceding episode The Old Gods and the New, he is said to be first introduced on the wiki page under characters. His actor is also listed on the episode's credit sequence. But I am unable to find him in that episode. ----Braeden32
- You are wrong. The clip is from "The Old Gods and the New". Moonracer (talk) 15:38, May 25, 2019 (UTC)
(Reply) Thanks. I watched the clip, but the character you were referring to in your original response is actually Quent, who is another listed character.
- OK, I cannot help you more than that. I suggest you ask another administrator. Moonracer (talk) 15:46, May 25, 2019 (UTC)
Jamie Lannister -- The North Remembers
Last question, Moonracer. In The North Remembers, after Jaimie is captured by Robb, he stated how Robb won three battles. Just wondering what those battles were. One being the Whispering Wood, the other being the Battle of Green Forks? Not sure what the other one is... ----Braeden32
- The Battle of Green Fork was not a victory for the Starks. The second was Battle of the Camps. I am not sure what the third was. Moonracer (talk)
I am not sure how far it is related to the show. I suggest you ask one of the top administrators. Moonracer (talk) 15:46, May 26, 2019 (UTC)
I agree with keeping listed events on house pages concise rather than full episode descriptions, I think this is a good idea. Where MatthewOne and I differ is MatthewOne is saying only certain details can be put on pages while I'd like just one or two descriptive words to be allowed to describe an event for the sake of providing better accuracy for readers, as well as all basic details relevant to the listed event.
Would you be willing to weigh in on this with your opinion since neither I or MatthewOne is an authority on this wiki?
- The dispute is, to my mind, barring one or two descriptive words pertaining to characters when describing an event as I feel these can go a long way to better reflecting the accuracy of on-screen events when describing them in written form for readers. If an event is included on a house's page, I believe that event should be described concisely but accurately (ie. the nature of Jon's assassination of Daenerys is conflicted, not casual). I certainly agree with and appreciate MatthewOne's efforts to cut down the page to a more concise summary but I don't agree with completely disallowing descriptors pertaining to character's actions. Likewise, I'm not sure what the policy is on what to include and what not to include on a house page. I'll accept whatever clarification can be given on that. Thanks! Adrianacandle (talk) 06:09, May 28, 2019 (UTC)
- Do not turn my Talk page into your verbal battlefield. No more additions by either of you in this subject. I'll read what you wrote, consider and let you know my decision. Moonracer (talk) 06:14, May 28, 2019 (UTC)
OK, I went over your recent editions to the House Stark article and what you wrote to each other.
I understand that you both agree that articles should be written accurately and concisely, while sticking to the topic and avoiding overspecification; there is no official policy in this issue, but this is the way we should act. The dispute is about going into depth, mainly describing characters' feelings and motives.
IMO MatthewOne is correct. Describing events more deeply, including personal feelings - should be limited to specific articles (of characters), not general articles (of houses), and still it has be done sparingly; overspecification is a burden on the readers.
For instance: to explain what was the main reason that prompted Jon to kill Daenerys - that can be added to Jon's article, not to the article of House Stark.
To clarify: I do not mean that it is incorrect to use adjectives and adverbs in general articles; it is fine to use them, but the general manner should be prosaic.
When removing contents from articles, pay attention that you omit only redundant or repeated information, not important facts.
One last thing: when corresponding, you should write your comments in the same Talk page. It is difficult for others to read your argument/discussion by flipping between your pages. Moonracer (talk) 08:33, May 28, 2019 (UTC)
- Thank-you, Moonracer! I'll abide by this. To clarify, when you say it wouldn't be incorrect to use adjective and adverbs, would it be alright to add something like what's done on Wikipedia? "A conflicted Jon", "Sansa reluctantly", etc. on house pages with no more elaboration than that (ie. just keep it at that, no more depth)? Or should I just drop those things altogether?
- And I'll keep that in mind for future correspondances.
- Yes, you may add descriptive words here and there in general articles, when you feel it is necessary for the readers, while keeping the edit concise. Moonracer (talk) 08:59, May 28, 2019 (UTC)
- Alright. So on general articles, I'll aim to keep it as distilled as possible, kind of like what goes on with Wikipedia -- would that be right? I should keep it to the bare bones without going in depth. Thanks for clearing this up and if I've misunderstood here, please feel free to tell me so. I very much appreciate you looking into this and I'll keep this with me for future edits. Adrianacandle (talk) 09:08, May 28, 2019 (UTC)
Apologies, and thanks for feedback
I apologize for the mistakes I made while making the page for Andrew McClay's character - I'm relatively new to this. Thank you for your feedback. I'll keep it in mind for the future. :) TerraByte90 (talk) 22:24, May 29, 2019 (UTC)
Jon's siblings, ASOS
Doesn't Jon believe all of his siblings passed away? He seems to think Sansa and Arya are gone as well:
"Winterfell would go to Robb and then his sons, or to Bran or Rickon should Robb die childless. And after them came Sansa and Arya. Even to dream otherwise seemed disloyal, as if he were betraying them in his heart, wishing for their deaths. I never wanted this, he thought as he stood before the blue-eyed king and the red woman. I loved Robb, loved all of them… I never wanted any harm to come to any of them, but it did. And now there's only me."
Jon XI, A Storm of Swords
In ADWD, Jon believes Arya passed away until Melisandre tells him she has seen her in her fires. And I believe Jon only learned of Sansa after ASOS? From the passage above, Jon seems to believe he's the only one left. What do you think?
IMO the sentence "And after them came Sansa and Arya" refers to the order of inheritance.
Jon was told in ASoS about the alleged deaths of Bran and Rickon, and knows Robb is dead. He also thinks Arya is dead:
Jon saw no reason not to tell him. "Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son’s wedding to..." His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King’s Landing, with Father. (DwD chap. 28, Jon VI)
As for Sansa, I agree it is not entirely clear: in the passage you quoted, the past tence implies that Jon believes they are all dead, but from the following quotes of DwD we can deduce Jon knows is alive, though he may not be aware of her current whereabouts:
"By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa."
"Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father’s seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow." (DwD chap. 3, Jon I)
Jon said, "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."
"I have heard all I need to hear of Lady Lannister and her claim." (DwD chap. 17, Jon IV)
I'll fix that passage in Jon's article for clarification. Moonracer (talk) 08:27, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
- But I think Jon learned Sansa was alive after that point in ASOS because in that passage, at the time Stannis offers him legitimization, Jon believes he's the only one left (and from his thought process, he hasn't forgotten Sansa). Based on that, it seems Jon learned off-page that Sansa was alive after that point - perhaps in the interim between ASOS and AWDW. Jon doesn't yet know Sansa is alive in ASOS based on the Jon XI passage and his POV thoughts don't indicate he knows Sansa is alive.
- I'm sorry for bothering you with this. It's just that there's no indication Jon knows Sansa is alive until AWDW and in that ASOS passage, he thinks all of his siblings are dead so wouldn't he have learned this during the time in between ASOS and AWDW if he thinks he's the only one left in that passage? Adrianacandle (talk) 09:07, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry for another message! I had a thought - because this seems to be unclear (when Jon learned Sansa was alive), would it be more accurate to say something like, "(As of A Dance With Dragons, Jon knows Sansa is alive but doesn't know her current whereabouts)"? Thanks and sorry for the double message :) Adrianacandle (talk) 09:14, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
- You definitely have a valid argument. The time gap between the aforementioned Jon's chapters in ASoS and ADwD is relatively short, so I do not think it really matters when exactly Jon learned to know Sansa was alive. However, the edit you suggest is fine. Moonracer (talk) 09:25, May 30, 2019 (UTC)
Should we have Tyrion removed from the household and retainer section of the House Targaryen navbox since he resigned as Daenerys’s Hand before she died. Also, in the Small Council navbox, there are two dots between Eddard Stark and Tywin Lannister’s names and one of them should be removed to prevent confusion. Can you do this? Thank you.--NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 17:32, June 7, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 14:43, June 8, 2019 (UTC)
We got another user. User:Skylar1999. He put “soulmates” in the box and reinserted it after it it was removed twice.
- Shaneymike has already taken care of that. Anyway, thanks for notifying. Moonracer (talk) 06:43, June 19, 2019 (UTC)
- Apology accepted. Moonracer (talk) 11:15, July 4, 2019 (UTC)
Official Fandom Discord
Hey Moonracer, Charlie from Fandom here with more good news to bring you! We announced the other day the official Fandom Discord server! You can join here and see the blog post for more information here. The Discord server was made to give you and your communities more support on Fandom so we hope to see you there! HighJewElfKing (talk) 19:01, July 11, 2019 (UTC)
I was wondering if you would be able to rename the page "Oathkeeper (sword)" to "Oathkeeper", as, following suite with other articles on this wiki, items that exist within the universe should take precedence over the episode pages. (i.e. "The Gift", "Winterfell") Upon the renaming, I would be more than happy to amend all links that currently link to "Oathkeeper (sword)".
- I do not understand why you cannot do it yourself. You have recently renamed the "Oathkeeper" episode page, so why do you need me for renaming the sword page? Any user can do it.
- I do not think such change should be made. See for instance "Winter Is Coming" and "Dragonstone" - the items do not take precedence over the episode pages. IMO it was also unnecessary to rename the episode page. Moonracer (talk) 11:12, July 15, 2019 (UTC)
- I can't rename the page myself because Oathkeeper redirects to Oathkeeper (episode), therefore an admin is required. Dragonstone is an anomaly due to it being both a castle and an island, therefore its respective pages need to be indicative of its focus. Take "High Sparrow" and "Sons of the Harpy" for example; the pages concerning the in-universe "High Sparrow" and "Sons of the Harpy" are titled as such, while the pages for the respective third and fourth episodes are titled "High Sparrow (episode)" and "Sons of the Harpy (episode)". I made this adjustment for the sake of uniformity. — Darth Dracarys (talk) 12:34, July 15, 2019 (UTC)
- In the case of "Winter Is Coming", the talk page of "Winter is Coming (motto)" suggests that the page should be deleted, therefore I don't believe an (episode) in the episode page's title is necessary. — Darth Dracarys (talk) 12:37, July 15, 2019 (UTC)
- I still do not think the page title should be changed. Just leave it as it is. If something is not broken, no need to fix it. Moonracer (talk) 13:34, July 15, 2019 (UTC)
Trivia Quizzes Button
Hello, Charlie from Fandom here, I wanted to let you know that since your wiki is part of the trivia quizzes beta, we now have an easier way of creating them. You can find it (the create quiz button) on the right-hand side of the discussions text bar. HighJewElfKing (talk) 21:27, July 25, 2019 (UTC)
Hello. I'm having more Dave and Aragorn problems. Their trolling again, even though I have not (at least not intentionally) trolled them in weeks. I've tried reaching you on Discord, but no response. Godzillavkk (talk) 14:57, July 27, 2019 (UTC)Godzillavkk 7/26/19 10:17AM.
- I do not understand your post. What do you mean by "I'm having more Dave and Aragorn problems"? What trolling? There is nothing recent in your Talk page.
- If someone is trolling you outside of this wikipedia, there is nothing I can do about.Moonracer (talk) 05:30, July 28, 2019 (UTC)
- I acidentally posted on the wrong page. Sorry. Godzillavkk (talk) 9:23, July 28, 2019.
Master of Whisperers
Can you add Qyburn to the Master of Whisperers section of the Small Council infobox? Cersei did appoint him as the new Master of Whisperers when Varys left Westeros with Tyrion following the death of Tywin. Thank you.--NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 01:42, August 12, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 05:27, August 12, 2019 (UTC)
Hey, I created the AbuseFilter as you requested. I restricted adding the line "House Rathunter" to articles only and it's only affects new accounts. The filter only prevents the edit. If you want, the abusefilter can auto-block users that add this line to articles, are not older than 24hours and aren't autoconfirmed. Please let me know if the filter causes any errors or if you have any questions.-- 15:18, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you very much.
- Could you please add the word "Rathunter" alone to the filter, just in case? And to exclude this page? Moonracer (talk) 16:00, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
- You should be able to add "Rathunter" and "House Rathunter" everywhere on the wiki outside of articles.
- Added "Rathunter" to the filter.-- 18:36, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. Moonracer (talk) 14:25, August 17, 2019 (UTC)
Capital Typo in Gilly’s Page.
In the last sentence of Gilly’s Season 8 section, the word “capital” is mis-typed as “captial”. Can you please fix it since it is locked for me? Thank you in advance.--NarendraMartosudarmo (talk) 10:07, August 19, 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Moonracer (talk) 10:53, August 19, 2019 (UTC)
Please rollback my edits to 0 and delete everything I have done for my User Profile
- You can delete or undo whatever edits you made so far in your profile page. You do not need an administrator for that.
- As for rollback your edits to 0 - it is impossible. Whether or not your edits are undone, the number stays. Moonracer (talk) 07:35, September 1, 2019 (UTC)
Updates From Fandom: Analytics
Hello Moonracer, I wanted to give you some updates from Fandom! First up, we recently introduced a new feature on Fandom! Ever wanted to know what browser your readers are using? Or perhaps where your readers are from? Now you can with our new analytics feature! What I find interesting from your wikis analytics is your most searched term which is "Jon Snow"! Your top viewed page is Daenerys Targaryen, so it's a good idea to keep that page updated! You can access analytics on the Special:Analytics page. If you'd like to do some more reading on this feature, we have a great Blog Post and Help page to help you get started with this feature! Feel free to also ask away and share your cool findings in our analytics channel on our Official Fandom/Gamepedia Discord Server! You can also let me know if you have any questions.
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For the record
I did not give any orders nor is it my intent to start an edit war. All i did was revert to the previous version in good faith and suggested you "Use the talk page if you would like to discuss it". Please try assuming good faith before you accuse users of something.
What you are referring to as per the edit summary here  is "Singular" whereas the "Plural form" of the word would have an "s" at the end. In this case, "Shatters" is the Plural form.
For the purpose of this discussion, i am pinging User:QueenBuffy, User:The Dragon Demands, User:Xanderen, User:Gonzalo84, User:Ser Shield McShield, User:Daemon Targaryen, User:Greater good, User:Ragestorm, User:Opark 77 for their input. TessaVarzi (talk) 14:41, September 30, 2019 (UTC)TessaVarzi
- For the record, you did start an edit war, by reverting my edit - as you admitted in your post. This is an edit war by definition, and it is forbidden, whether you did it on purpose or in good faith.
- If you thought in good faith you were correct, you could have spared yourself the unpleasantness by placing a post in my Talk page (which you did, but only after starting an edit war), explaining why in your opinion your edit was correct. This is the proper way. In the future, you are requested to act this way, not the way you acted.
- Your suggestion, which was phrased as an order, even if you did not mean it (you should have phrased it "You may use", not "Use" - it is more courteous) is out of place, since "Talk" sections of character articles are not meant for grammar arguments. Users' "Talk" pages can be used for that.
- Now, for the specific issue:
- The word "shatter", in the context of the sentence in question, is a verb - not a noun. This is the basic flaw in your arguments. I suggest you read the sentence carefully, starting from "Tyrion's plans" till "her already fragile sanity".
- When you add "s" to a noun, you make it plural. It is completely different than adding "s" to a verb.
- Whether a verb (in an active sentence) should be written with "s" or not - it depends on the subject of the sentence, not its object: you may add "s" to the verb only if the subject of the sentence is both singular and in third person; if the subject is in first person, second person, or plural third person, the verb should be written without "s".
- It does not matter at all whether the specific sentence refers to Daenerys in first or third person, since in this case Daenerys (her sanity, to be exact) is the object of the sentence, not its subject. Just because the whole passage is generally about Daenerys - it does not make her the grammatical subject of all the sentences which are included in the passage.
- Since the subject of the sentence in question consists of multiple items ("Tyrion's plans backfiring on her on several occasions, the deaths of two of her dragons, along with Ser Jorah and Missandei, Jon's inability to reciprocate her romantic affection due to their blood relation, and discovering Varys is plotting to replace her") - the verb should be written without "s".
- For example: in the sentence which starts with "Upon her ascension", Daenerys is the grammatical subject, and since the subject is singular and in third person - the verb is correctly written "announces", not "announce". Moonracer (talk) 07:17, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
I give up. Apparently, you and i have different opinions on much of this discussion (What an edit war is etc).
You're welcome to ban me permanently since there's no point in editing a wiki that's run like a dictatorship. And yes, i read the sentence over starting from "Tyrion's plans" but it still doesn't make sense to me without the "s" being included at the end of "Shatter".
- OK, enough with that "poor innocent victim" show. Whoever reads your posts may think that ever since you have joined this wikipedia - I've been picking on you nonstop and deleting each and every edit you have ever made.
- Apparently, in your dictionary "diplomatic" means "insolent". So far, you are the one who has been acting in an abrasive and unbecoming manner.
- Despite what you may think, the definition of "edit war" was not made whimsically by me. It has been defined many years before I joined this wiki. You may not like it, but you do not have the right to re-define it as you please.
- One last time: when you make an edit, someone reverts it, and you revert it back - this is an edit war. OK? This is what you did. Since maybe you were not aware it was a violation of the Wiki rules, I did not sanction you for that, only made it clear to you (that alone refutes your inappropriate comment about "a wiki that's run like a dictatorship"). I also informed you what was the correct way to resolve such situation.
- I also explained to you in length why your edit was erroneous, according to the grammar rules, but it seems you are too stubborn to admit you were wrong. Apparently you do not know what is the difference between adding "s" to a noun and to a verb, and when to add "s" to a verb. To make it simple: A, B, and C shatter something, while A shatters something. You may ask anyone you wish how the word "shatter" should be written in the sentence in question.
- Now that you know what an edit war is: if you keep acting that way, or perform any other violation of the rules (being insolent to other users or administrators) - you will be blocked, and eventually be banned. This is not a threat. This is how the wikipedia works. If you do not like it, feel free to delete your account and spare yourself the unpleasantness of being banned.
- You are welcome to stay and make edits, but you have to obey the rules and respect the authority of the administrators.
- If you are uncertain about an edit, you may ask any administrator for guidance. This is what administrators are for: to guide and help, but also to sanction those who disobey the rules. Moonracer (talk) 15:44, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
Okay I'll stop my edit war on The Bells but I do believe I have some evidence on the showrunners intended on what Jaime said to be intended as true David Benioff and D.B. Weiss on the Inside of the Episode for episode 4 and 5 (Season 8) said "Jaime has to take a hard look at who he really is" and "Jaime has accepted who he really is. He may not like who he really is but he knows who he isn't" so that's why I think the showrunners believe Jaime meant what he said. So it's likely (for the show's continuity at least) that Jaime saved the people of King's Landing out of honor yes but not really out of care for their safety.
Jaime is complicated and IMO this just adds to his character not ruins it.
- First of all, when someone starts a thread in your "Talk" page, you should write your response in the same thread, not in the other user's "Talk" page. It is uncomfortable to follow a conversation between users, when you have to flip between their Talk pages back and forth.
- Second, you should phrase the titles of your threads concisely, not whole sentences.
- Now, to the subject: I disagree with your interpretation. IMO what the producers said does not support it. Jaime saved those people because his conscience, not sense of honor, drove him to. Why he said that he didn't care for them - I believe the reason should be left "unclear", instead of suggesting questionable interpretations. Moonracer (talk) 15:14, October 11, 2019 (UTC)
What is the wiki written in?
Is the wiki written in American or British English? On Sansa's page, you spell favor the American way but you spell judgment, judgement. Moreover, you spell favorite, favourite the British way but spell color, color the American way.
15:20, November 25, 2019 (UTC)
- It has been long decided that the spelling should be American. Naturally, you may find here and there in the wikipedia words with British spelling, written by users who were unaware of this rule. Such words should be corrected to American spelling. Moonracer (talk) 15:39, November 25, 2019 (UTC)
Redlinks aren't broken links, they're links to pages that are yet to be created. They become blue links when the pages have been created so removing them is counterproductive. --Potsk (talk) 21:19, November 30, 2019 (UTC)
- I know that. The problem is: it happens that users create articles with red links, but do not create articles to which these links direct.
- I suggest that you leave a footnote at those articles, so other users will know you intend to create the articles, and will not remove the red links.
- BTW, several of the articles that you created do not include a link to AWOIAF. I added it to some of them, but there are more (for instance, Daemon Velaryon article). Please complete them. Moonracer (talk) 08:13, December 1, 2019 (UTC)
Hello Moonracer! I had an eye on the article "Red Priest" and there is something that troubles me. "Sacred Sex" is mentioned there, but the fact is, the context isn't very clear. In the novels we have descriptions that the Religion of R'hllor has temple prostitutes, a form of sacred sex, but this was never shown or mentioned in the TV show! The intercourse between Stannis and Melisandre is credited as "Sacred Sex" in the article, but this was an action only to produce a "shadow"-assassin, or maybe blood magic. So I'm wondering if we should do something to clear this. Exodianecross (talk) 00:13, December 10, 2019 (UTC)
- You are correct. There is no indication in the show that "sacred sex" is a part of the religion of R'hllor, and so was the reproduction of the shadow. The second paragraph of the introduction (starting with "Unlike the clergy") should be deleted . Moonracer (talk) 06:24, December 10, 2019 (UTC)
- I think that's a good idea. It's too bad that this point was so unclear. I tried to explain it before my work was removed. Melisandre was the only red priestess who engaged in sexual activities, or sexpositions, the first time with Stannis to create the shadow, the second time when she pretended to Gendry that she wanted sex with him and the last time when she offered herself to Jon Snow, to convince him to join Stannis! That all could be considered "sacred sex" because it serves a higher/divine purpose. But the whole situation is too unconcrete! --Exodianecross (talk) 14:15, December 10, 2019 (UTC)
- Hello! I wanted to inform you that I've changed the article, removed the part with "Sacred Sex"! Melisandre had sex with Stannis and Thoros mentioned having sex with whores, that is proof enough that the red priesterhood doesn't live in celibacy. Let's see if someone will change this again to "Sacred Sex"! Exodianecross (talk) 14:59, December 26, 2019 (UTC)
- You forgot to sign your post, but that's OK. The points you mentioned are correct.
- The introduction part should be general. The specific paragraph about celibacy does not belong at the topmost part of the article. I suggest you move it elsewhere in the page, maybe add new section of "Trivia". Moonracer (talk) 14:47, December 26, 2019 (UTC)
- Hello Moonracer! I've made a few changes in the article, I assume that now everything is okay, right? But there is one thing that I would like to talk about. The "Sacred Sex"-thing, I have the impression that this is somehow confusing. Historically it was "temple-prostitution", primarly a sort of income for the religion, but it was also sold as a way of "divine unification", temple-prostitution was almost entirely associated with cults around a goddess! But considering what we saw in the show, the relationship between Melisandre and Stannis, her offer towards Jon Snow to have sex with her if he helps Stannis in his fight against the Boltons, that implies somehow that a red priestess (and possibly a red priest as well) has the freedom to become the paramour/mistress/lover of another person, of some sort of leader as long it's somehow the will of R'hllor! What do you say Moonracer? --Exodianecross (talk) 10:04, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- The edits you did to the article are fine. As for your idea - it is an interesting topic for discussion. I doubt if it is correct, since there is not enough information in the show to support it. Melisandre could have done it due to her sense of duty, not exactly of her free will. It is difficult to say what was her personal feeling.
- I suggest you open a discussion thread in the "Talk" section of the article. Moonracer (talk) 13:25, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Good thought Moonracer, but I'm afraid that as long there isn't a spin-off, like the planned prequel, which includes the Religion of R'hllor again, we won't get informations that lead us to a conclusion. Even the novels weren't very specific about that so far, now there is the question if we will get new knowledge in the upcoming publications. I will think about a discussion in the article, in the "Talk" section. --Exodianecross (talk) 14:57, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
Hello Moonracer! I wanted to inform you that I've opened a discussion thread on the "Talk" section, but no one added something to it. It seems, that is something that can only be explored if there is published something new in writing or in a spin-off that includes the Red Priests! But one thing Moonracer, it appears that it became somehow "popular" in fiction, through novels, TV, movie or computer games settled in fictional worlds or in ancient times that priestesses become paramours/lovers/mistresses to Kings, Warlords, Knights etc., because it's a nice idea and possibly because of "sexpositions"! But realistically it could also be a way for the Clergy of a Religion to send priestesses as consorts to mighty leaders (and even priests to Queens who rule on their own) to have some sort of influence on this persons, on the court, etc. I have insight in history and in ancient times, like Egypt for example, it's somehow implied that this happened from time to time, but I couldn't quote a reliable source. It seems, we have to wait for the next what will be published from the World of Ice and Fire! --Exodianecross (talk) 13:03, January 13, 2020 (UTC)
I'm aware of what I wrote on Cersei's wiki and i did that to spread a message because it's not fair that all of the additions I made to the Catelyn Stark page were undone by one of the admins. He did not agree with the fact that Lady Catelyn had the title of Lady of Winterfell, even though that's what she is. So eventually he abused his admin powers and protected the page from any edits, this is unfair especially since on the admin wiki page it says this is against the rules, an admin cannot block a page simply because he disagrees. An admin that cannot set an example and follow the rules should not be an admin, so why should I follow rules if he doesn't. Diago Dayne(talk) 15:48, December 13, 2019 (UTC)
- First of all, when someone posts a message in your talk page - you should write your response in the same thread, not in the other user's page.
- Second, like I wrote - whatever the user/administrator, with whom you are in dispute, did to you - it does not give you the right to vandalize the wikipedia or to violate any of the rules.
- Everything I wrote in your talk page, especially the warning about banning - stands. Moonracer (talk) 12:07, December 14, 2019 (UTC)
Invitation to join the advisor program
Hello! I'm Sannse, from Fandom's Editor Experience team. I'm contacting you as the most recently active admin. Hopefully you can pass this on to others as needed.
One project that we're excited about launching is an initiative to pair newly registered users with experienced advisors (which they can choose from). These advisors would be available for answering basic editing questions and guiding appropriate edits, in the hope that these users will become active in the local community.
Why do this, rather than rely on admins and moderators? We've seen from research and experience (both from Wikipedia) that establishing a human bond with a peer "senpai" or mentor can have a better effect on the comfort of the newcomer, especially where the high volume of edits may cause the quick response of rollbacks rather than taking the time to walk new editors through their early work. While some communities do take that time and care among their leaders, we feel an additional level might put new users at ease and help them be more comfortable with editing. Ultimately, we feel like this project will either free up some time for admins and moderators, or designate them as approachable welcomers to talk to and guide new users. We want to see how effective this is on a relatively small number of communities and see if Fandom's results are consistent with those experienced on Wikipedia. If they are, we may pursue expanding the pilot program and perhaps seeking to build it into a core part of the new platform.
Here's what we would wish for your community to agree to:
- At least one volunteer advisor, acting as an advisor and advocate helping newcomers. For the most part, this means responding to questions that newcomers leave the advisor in Discussions. Sometimes this may mean the advisor interacts with admins and moderators to address concerns regarding the newcomer. We have some advisors-at-large (those not tied to the local community, but available as fallbacks) already, but if you have ideas on who you might want to represent you in this role (or if you'd like to do so yourself!), feel free to contact me on my Wall.
- Discussions / Feeds. Your community must have this active for the current solution to work. This is the primary method in which advisors have open communication with the users that choose them. We also recommend a Feeds channel of “Help Desk” where the communications can be placed, if you do not have a similar channel.
- A change to your Welcome Messages to allow a method where a newcomer can choose an advisor. If you are currently participating in the MyDashboard program, there will be a card there to interact with an advisor.
We are testing this for the next two months, and will see what the future of the program is thereafter. Is this a program you would feel comfortable with placing on your community? -- Sannse (help forum | blog) 01:08, December 15, 2019 (UTC)
- Sounds interesting, but as the least veteran administrator - I cannot answer on behalf of the community.
- I suggest you address the top administrators of this community - The Dragon Demands, QueenBuffy and Gonzalo84. Moonracer (talk) 07:19, December 15, 2019 (UTC)
Psoting video content
I'm new here and was just curious to know what the policy is on contributions. Is it not accepted to post video content on pages even if it pertains to the page specifically? (ie. a character video on a character page). I thought that a character video would spice up their page a bit and as someone who works in media I find video content highly affective with regards to page traffic. Any advice on why it may have been removed is greatly helpful as I would like to build up to more contributions for this wiki.
- First of all, when you open a new thread in someone's Talk page - you should separate it from the previous posts by a headline, which consists of the subject of your message. I added it.
- Second, at the end of your message you should add your signature (four tildes), as written above this window, not simply write your user name/real name.
- For your question: there is no official policy that forbids posting video clips, but since in the past the wikipedia was flooded with tons of video clips, which a lot of users found annoying, they were removed.
- It is fine that you wish to contribute to the wiki, but uploading videos is not recommended. Moonracer (talk) 13:38, April 13, 2020 (UTC)
Source for the Fall of Winterfell Book Section
In the book section for the Fall of Winterfell, it read:
Robb is so absorbed in his vendetta against the Lannisters, that he turns a deaf ear to the reports about the ironborn's invasion, indifferent to the suffering of the common folk whose villages were ravaged by the ironborn. Even when he receives reports about the fall of Winterfell, he does not send even one soldier back (unlike in the show, Roose Bolton never suggests Robb to send Ramsay, and the "liberation" of Winterfell is performed without Robb's knowledge or consent), because, as he explains Catelyn in the third novel, he foolishly trusted Theon to act rationally and spare his brothers - and was indifferent about the safety of the servants with whom he lived for years.
Robb's indifference to his subjects eventually backfires at him...
I went back through the edits and realized you added this but what is the source of this information? Because I had read the books and don't remember Robb being so absorbed into his vendetta against the Lannisters that he turns a deaf ear to the reports or was indifferent about the safety of the servants. I could be wrong, I hadn't reread the books in a while, but I couldn't find any source to support this, because in the books the Capture of Winterfell happened in the late part of the second book and in early third book Robb is marching to the Twins, trying to return to the North.
- It is in chapter 14 of the third novel. Near its end, Robb already planned his next battle, but Catelyn told him that he had to return to the North and defend his people. Robb answered:
- "When they told me Winterfell had fallen, I wanted to go north at once," he said, with a hint of defensiveness. "I wanted to free Bran and Rickon, but I thought... I never dreamed that Theon could harm them, truly. If I had..."
- Robb knew, like everyone in Westeros, exactly what ironborn did with their captives - kill the men and rape the women. He knew well what they did in the Stony Shore, Deepwood Motte and Moat Cailin - and in Winterfell, even if the reports did not specify that. The aforementioned quote makes it very clear that he did not care about the commoners and about the servants at Winterfell. He only thought about his brothers, not about the residents of the Stony Shore, Alebelly, septon Chayle, Mikken, Farlen, and Palla - all of whom were brutalized by the ironborn. He said to himself "Theon would probably keep Bran and Rickon alive", and did not return because he had more important task - to settle the score with the Lannisters.
- Only after Catelyn told Robb that he should return (in the aforementioned chapter), he agreed, but it was too late. Moonracer (talk) 15:02, April 21, 2020 (UTC)
- I disagreed and it makes me think you think Robb didn't care but if that be argued that is a bias point of view. You're right when you said he has a more important task, but I don't think it's to settle the score with the Lannisters. I think it's to secure independence from the North, or at least peace for the North.
Second, he also said in the later in the same chapter, the last report was Ser Rodrik had defeated the Ironborn at Torrhen Square and was assemble a host at Cerwyn to retake Winterfell. Robb is assuming, that Rodrik will be able to retake Winterfell without him marching home, which he said in the chapter. It will also take him months to march back north, and mean all of the men who died fighting the Lannister, died for nothing. He also said how can be the King of the Trident if he abandoned the RIverlords? I.e. he does care but is caught in a bad situation.
If hope really didn't care, then why did he ever march back to Riverrun? Robb doesn't know the full situation in the North, i.e. the Bolton betrayed the Stark. Catelyn doesn't know the situation at the time, much better, and her reaction is one of a mother, not thinking of the big picture.
- I feel like the section should be writing to take less of the bias point of view out and stick more with what in the novels. Because, you're basically giving your view of the situation, which may not be correct. Unless you can support it by other sources.
- Whether Robb's intent was to pay the Lannisters back or to secure independence - that's not the point. The point is that he knew the ironborn invaded the North. Even if he thought Rodrik could retake Winterfell, he had no reason to think Rodrik could take care of all the invaders. Defeating Dagmer's troops at Torrhen's Square was easy, because they were few and fought poorly as infantry. That was not the case with Deepwood Motte or Moat Cailin, and definitely not Winterfell - Rodrik failed to retake it.
- Robb marched back to Riverrun is order to present his bride to Catelyn and to plan his next step, not because he cared. Read it in the chapter 14.
- Yes, eventually Robb decided to return, but when? When he realized how poor his position was - after losing Winterfell, his brothers, the Freys, the Karstarks, his most important captive, third of his infantry at Duskendale and 2,000 soldiers at the Ruby Ford - and only after Catelyn urged him to. He should have returned immediately, no matter how many of his troops died or how many months it would take. His first priority should have been to defend the North, not the Riverlands, and he failed utterly. The quote I added regards only to Robb's brothers - not a word about the commoners who were ravaged by the ironborn.
- I assure you that everything I add to the wikipedia is based on the books, not bias or presonal opinion. I never make up stuff. Moonracer (talk) 15:44, April 21, 2020 (UTC)
- Where in the books do any characters said or think Robb doesn't care? Because if not the case, then it a personal opinion. As I read the same chapter, and reread the same chapter and doesn't get the feeling that Robb doesn't care.
Not mentioned the smallfolk is not enough proof. Anyone would mention just there siblings, especially giving the raven message mentioned Bran and Rickon are supposed to be dead.
Also, there should be enough forces left in the North to defeat the Ironborn. it took them a month to capture Deepwood Motte. Rodrik raised 2,000 men to retake Winterfell. Why couldn't other Lords have attacked the Ironborn from the North? Where Moat Cailin is weak.
A semi-canon source mentioned the North had 45,000 men, which mean Robb about 45% of the Northern Strength. So, where are the other 25,000 men? Rodrik mentioned not having enough men to stop the fighting between Hornwood and Dreadfort, but suddenly he can raise 2,000 men to retake Winterfell? According to A Song of Ice and Fire, there were a thousand men at Deepwood Motte, between 200 and 250 with Theon and an unknown number at Moat Cailin. Most of which left with Victarion when he returns to the Iron Isles. You're telling me that Robb shouldn't assume that the North had enough men to defense against the Ironborn?
Robb is King of the North AND the Trident. He can't abandon the Riverlords in order to save the North, nor can he abandon the North for the Riverlands. He is trapped in the south until the North can recapture Moat Cailin.
- But getting back to the subject, there is nothing in the text, that I remember, that supposed the idea that Robb doesn't care. Even that one line is debatable. You may view it like that from the text or the lack of mentioning the smallfolk, but I'm sure there are others, myself include who doesn't see it like that.
- Robb did return immediately, as fast as possible, because he can't just retreat from the Westerlands instantly. That not how warfare work. 1: Because, it takes time for him to reassemble his forces, which had split into smaller groups to attack targets throughout the Westerlands, and march back. 2: A mass retreating leaves him open to being attack in the rear. 3: The Lannister still have his sisters, which are even more important now, than before with Bran and Rickon's death. 4: if he does march north, which is to stop the Lannister launching an attack against him as he is marching back? Nothing.
- If it takes Robb two months to march back North, and by the time he returns the Ironborn is defeat, then he could have lost the entire Riverlands during that time, and with Winter coming, he supposed to turn back around and march south, again?
- Nope, my point is that the text doesn't suppose the idea that Robb doesn't care. If he really didn't care, he would have done what Show Robb does and decided to attack Castelyn Rock.
- First of all, your basic assumption that "if it's not written in the books, it does not exist" is wrong. Not everything is written explicitly in the books. There are things that the readers can deduce and conclude. Do you really expect Martin to spoonfeed you about any issue in the books? That Robb would say, aloud or in his thoughts "I don't give a **** about the people of the North"?
- For instance: where is it written the books that Jon was notified about the Red Wedding? Nowhere. Does it mean he had no idea about it? Of course he had. It is obvious, based on his conversations with Stannis and his inner thoughts, even if he never relate to the Red Wedding explicitly.
- Another example: where is it written explicitly that the Westerlings collaborated with the Lannisters and deliberately caused Robb to breach his pact with the Freys? It is not. We can conclude it from the Lannisters' conversation about the Westerlings, the fact that Grey Wind acted hostilely toward them, and the conversation between Jaime and Sybell Spicer.
- You also ignore several facts, among them: first, that Robb took to the south nearly all the Northern troops, leaving the North as a tempting target to the ironborn. He should have left enough forces to defend his subjects.
- Second, Robb did not decide to return but until after Winterfell was destroyed - which occurred after the harrying of the Stony Shore and the fall of Moat Cailin and Deepwood Motte.
- Third, Ser Rodrik did not liberate even one of the strongholds that the ironborn seized, including Winterfell; did you read that part? That alone should have made it clear to Robb he had to return, and refute your claims that the North could have dealt with the ironborn without Robb's troops.
- As for your question "Where in the books do any characters said or think Robb doesn't care?" - it's written very explicitly in the fifth novel. Did you read that part?
- "Robb Stark betrayed us all. He abandoned the north to the cruel mercies of the ironmen to carve out a fairer kingdom for himself along the Trident. Then he abandoned the Riverlords who had risked much and more for him, breaking his marriage pact with my grandfather to wed the first western wench who caught his eye".
- Even though the Freys lied about the Red Wedding, their criticism of Robb's inactions was mostly correct (except the reason Robb married Jeyne).
- You mentioned that Catelyn did not think of the big picture. Did Robb think about that? He wouldn't know what the big picture was even if it hit him in the face. Otherwise, he'd never left the North so sparsely defended, and never married Jeyne Westerling. In fact, if he had some common sense, based on the information he had in the end of the first novel - he'd have joined Renly. Renly was not Robert's legal heir, but he had the armies of the Stormlands and Highgarden; together with the Stark and Tully troops, the Lannisters wouldn't have stood a chance, and the war could have been prevented or minimized (of course, Robb couldn't have taken Melisandre's shadow into consideration). This is what the big picture is about - not just what is good for the Starks and the North, but for the entire land.
- As for you question "if he does march north, which is to stop the Lannister launching an attack against him as he is marching back?" - I referred to that in the text: "At such scenario Robb might have lost all the lands he conquered (as Roose warns him in the show) and eventually found himself caught between the Lannisters and ironborn, but still it would have been much better position than how things turned to be." Can you argue with that?
- You keep claiming that I write of bias and personal view, but your basic assumptions and conclusions are baseless and contradict the books. You have not proven your point about the paragraph in question, therefore it will remain that way it is.
- I suggest you read the books more thoroughly and try to reach conclusions yourself, before unfairly accusing others of making up stuff. Moonracer (talk) 05:23, April 22, 2020 (UTC)
- I deleted your posts because you made a serious mess and deleted large parts of my posts.
- Anyway, you only keep repeating your previous baseless claims. I do not think there is a point to continue this thread. The discussion is closed.
- Moonracer (talk) 06:41, April 22, 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't mean to make a serious mess and deleted any parts of your posts. For that I'm sorry. I not even sure how that happened. Like I said I was writing my response when you updated your previous response.
- OK. Apology accepted. The thread is closed. Moonracer (talk) 06:50, April 22, 2020 (UTC)
Banning of Dave chaves
Hello, a user named Dave chaves has been banned on here, can you help? We've made a thread about it on central, the details are there. Thank you! https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:1886455#11
- First of all, when you post a message, you should sign it (4 tildes).
- I can help you if you are in dispute with another user, but not in a dispute with an administrator. In such case, you should contact one of the four top administrators - QueenBuffy, The Dragon Demands, Gonzalo84 or Greater good. Moonracer (talk) 13:36, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
This is Alazhars and I am sorry!
- First of all, you should have posted your answer in your Talk page, in the thread I opened.
- It happened to me before that users who acted improperly, and I warned them, promised not to do it again, but broke their promise. So, your apology cannot be accepted right away. You will have to show that you mean it. Moonracer (talk) 13:46, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
Hi Moonracer. I would like you're input on this Dave chaves situation, if you feel able to give it?
I don't believe there is a single admin in the history of this wiki who would tolerate being sworn at and called an "ignorant fuck" least of all by someone who doesn't even contribute. And I'm certain that all of our current team would have responded the same way. If you could give me your opinion is be grateful. - 16:35, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Xanderen,
- If I understood correctly from the messages, you and Dave chaves had some dispute, which resulted in banning on April 24th.
- Of course, the use of profanity - whether against other users or administrators - is unacceptable. A user who acts that way should be blocked for a significant period, or banned permenantly, depending on the severity of the foul expressions.
- I cannot express my opinion on the specific matter, since I searched both your Talk pages and the forums, but could not find the exchange of words that let to the banning - only opinions of other users.
- Whatever it was about, it got out of hand, with all the recent messages posted by various users, which do not exactly regard GoT.
- I think it is time for the top administrators to intervene and put an end to this. Moonracer (talk) 04:35, June 28, 2020 (UTC)
Administrator best practices
Can I suggest that you read this please, and familiarise yourself with correct administrator practices. Your behaviour towards your fellow editors has become a concern.--Malveux (talk) 07:56, July 5, 2020 (UTC)
- I have read it before and I am aware of that.
- If you follow my posts in other users' Talk pages, you can see for yourself that in case of users who do not break the rules, but their style needs some improvement - I always keep friendly approach and explain them, not order but guide and instruct, and always give them a fair chance to improve and correct, and always encourage them to ask for guidance in case they are uncertain.
- It usually works, but there are users who prefer to ignore administrators' instructions, wholly or mostly, and do whatever they please. For those, I explain why their conduct is improper, and if it does not work - I warn them, and if it still does not work - block them.
- I do not like to sanction users, and do that only as a last resort, in case of repeating violations, and only after warning.
- Regarding users who deliberately vandalize and use profanity - that's a totally different matter. Such users should be dealt in a firm manner. Moonracer (talk) 11:00, July 5, 2020 (UTC)
New Wiki Manager
How's everything going? The wiki looks pretty solid, but if you ever have any questions, let me know! I'm here to help!
- Hi Kylara,
- Activity has been slowed down in the past months, now that the show ended, but there are always edits to be done and requests for assistance to be answered.
- Thank you for your message. I will contact you if I need help. Moonracer (talk) 04:26, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
Hi Moonracer. Would you have any objections to Reverb frost being appointed as the designated administrator on the Discussions Board? He is a trusted user who is already a global Dboard moderator and frequently works with FANDOM staff. Let me know your thoughts on this. - 13:21, July 9, 2020 (UTC)
- I am in favor. Moonracer (talk) 14:13, July 9, 2020 (UTC)