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  • Season 6 came to an end, and what an end! Yes, it could be the greatest episode made up 'till now: we have plot twisters, we have theories confirmed (R+L=J, Cersei became Mad Queen, Daenerys is very close to Westeros), we have a great speech and a new King of the North.

    Watching for the second time the last episode of GoT, I just couldn't pass a small detail and didn't find any comments on it.

    There is one line that I just can't get off my mind. When Petyr Baelish is alone with Sansa and let's her know his intentions, after he tries to kiss her, he calls Jon a "motherless bastard born in the South".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpRyERbR1u0

    What? South?

    My first question was "Does he know something about Jon's birth and real parents?" We know the truth, but as far as the GoT characters (minus Bran) Jon is a Snow, a bastard born North of the Wall, from a wildling mother.

    My next question was, of course, "Why didn't Sansa react?" She said nothing and just walked away. Now, my thought was she either didn't noticed because she wasn't really listening to him (thinking that he only wants to mess with her head) or because she was to tense in his presence, OR that she also knows something. They have spent some time together in the past, so we might consider this possibility.

    I would really like to hear out more opinions on this subject :)

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    • I doubt it. While people may be confused as to why Ned would have a bastard, there's no proof that Jon isn't his. We have the benefit of knowing what Ned is thinking and seeing visons in the House of the Undying, that's why we can peice it together. When Sansa says that Rhaegar raped her, Littlefinger smiles becuase most people don't belive that, most people think he was acting out of true love for Lyanna. Littlefinger knows a lot, but the only people alive that still now that Jon is Rhaegar's son is Howland Reed, and two midwives. And who would belive two midwives?

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    • By the south I believe he's referring to not being born in the North. They call just about everyone not from there from the South, even if it's just the Riverlands. And it's known that Ned came back from the war with Jon.

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    • Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi

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    • SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).

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    • BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).

      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!

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    • SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).
      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!


      But he didn't know where Lyanna was, so he couldn't have even known about the two midwives. You have to remeber, the war started well before Littlefinger had his power, wealth, and vast spy network. There is no way that he could even know about Lyanna's whereabouts, much less know that Jon is her son by Rhaegar.

      Littlefinger knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Hell, he didn't know Ramsey was a f**king nut job, and look at how that turned out.

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    • BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).
      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!

      But he didn't know where Lyanna was, so he couldn't have even known about the two midwives. You have to remeber, the war started well before Littlefinger had his power, wealth, and vast spy network. There is no way that he could even know about Lyanna's whereabouts, much less know that Jon is her son by Rhaegar.

      Littlefinger knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Hell, he didn't know Ramsey was a f**king nut job, and look at how that turned out.

      Good argument and I realize Petyr would've been just a little scrapper during Robert's Rebellion. Which is why, if he knew somehow, he would've found it out when he became more powerful. And he imagined himself on the Iron Throne with Sansa by his side so I do think he knew about Ramsay. I think he would have "come to her resuce" and overthrown Ramsay and in his fantastical mind he would have married a Stark ("There must always be a Stark in Winterfell") and would therefore rule the North...now how he would rule S, E, and W....have to ask Baelish about that one. I'm kinda done arguing about this topic, since we've kinda said all there is to say. I just wanna say that I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I wouldn't put it past him but it's also a very long shot.

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    • SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).
      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!

      But he didn't know where Lyanna was, so he couldn't have even known about the two midwives. You have to remeber, the war started well before Littlefinger had his power, wealth, and vast spy network. There is no way that he could even know about Lyanna's whereabouts, much less know that Jon is her son by Rhaegar.

      Littlefinger knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Hell, he didn't know Ramsey was a f**king nut job, and look at how that turned out.

      Good argument and I realize Petyr would've been just a little scrapper during Robert's Rebellion. Which is why, if he knew somehow, he would've found it out when he became more powerful. And he imagined himself on the Iron Throne with Sansa by his side so I do think he knew about Ramsay. I think he would have "come to her resuce" and overthrown Ramsay and in his fantastical mind he would have married a Stark ("There must always be a Stark in Winterfell") and would therefore rule the North...now how he would rule S, E, and W....have to ask Baelish about that one. I'm kinda done arguing about this topic, since we've kinda said all there is to say. I just wanna say that I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I wouldn't put it past him but it's also a very long shot.


      Just one last thing: the actor and writers said that he didn't know about Ramsay, and he would have no reason to investigate Lyanna's death. To him, there's no point.

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    • BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).
      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!

      But he didn't know where Lyanna was, so he couldn't have even known about the two midwives. You have to remeber, the war started well before Littlefinger had his power, wealth, and vast spy network. There is no way that he could even know about Lyanna's whereabouts, much less know that Jon is her son by Rhaegar.

      Littlefinger knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Hell, he didn't know Ramsey was a f**king nut job, and look at how that turned out.

      Good argument and I realize Petyr would've been just a little scrapper during Robert's Rebellion. Which is why, if he knew somehow, he would've found it out when he became more powerful. And he imagined himself on the Iron Throne with Sansa by his side so I do think he knew about Ramsay. I think he would have "come to her resuce" and overthrown Ramsay and in his fantastical mind he would have married a Stark ("There must always be a Stark in Winterfell") and would therefore rule the North...now how he would rule S, E, and W....have to ask Baelish about that one. I'm kinda done arguing about this topic, since we've kinda said all there is to say. I just wanna say that I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I wouldn't put it past him but it's also a very long shot.

      Just one last thing: the actor and writers said that he didn't know about Ramsey, and he would have no reason to investigate Lyanna's death. To him, there's no point.

      Huh. Where'd ya heard that? Cuz that makes no sense with Ramsay's (you keep spelling his name wrong..it kinga bugs) goal of sitting on the iron throne with Sansa as his wife.

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    • SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      BigBadBruin343 wrote:
      SummerandBran wrote:
      Everyone shoots this down but I've heard a lot of convincing theories about why Littlefinger would know. He's always loved Cat so when the honorable Ned Stark shows up with a bastard I would think he'd do anything to find out about this kid. He always keeps his cards so close to his chest and won't play them until the exact right time. Plus wouldn't he have looked into why Ser Arthur Dayne was fighting with Rhaegar. He was Rhaegar's best friend and knight.

      Yup, if it affected his precious Cat, he'd be all over that. And when he said the South, I thought you could tell what he meant. It's only the Free Folk who think everything south of the wall is south. Not a Westerosi


      He still wouldn't have the evedence to prove that Jon is Rhaegar's son. When he says Jon is a "motherless bastard born in the South" he's talking about his mother being from the south (which she's not).
      Of course he doesn't have proof. No DNA testing, damn! But he may have been able to find one of the midwives. I don't know. I know this is a really big reach to make this true. But..he is a sneaky, cunning guy. And YouTubers like to freeze their screens and really examine the face Aiden Gillen is choosing to use. Like shock (which is like, never), and most cases when he's with Sansa he's got these weird knowing type looks on his face. He uses a bit different face when talking about Rhaegar, and then Catelyn and Ned and Jon. Props to Aiden for doing such a fantastic job at protraying such a multifaceted character!

      But he didn't know where Lyanna was, so he couldn't have even known about the two midwives. You have to remeber, the war started well before Littlefinger had his power, wealth, and vast spy network. There is no way that he could even know about Lyanna's whereabouts, much less know that Jon is her son by Rhaegar.

      Littlefinger knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Hell, he didn't know Ramsey was a f**king nut job, and look at how that turned out.

      Good argument and I realize Petyr would've been just a little scrapper during Robert's Rebellion. Which is why, if he knew somehow, he would've found it out when he became more powerful. And he imagined himself on the Iron Throne with Sansa by his side so I do think he knew about Ramsay. I think he would have "come to her resuce" and overthrown Ramsay and in his fantastical mind he would have married a Stark ("There must always be a Stark in Winterfell") and would therefore rule the North...now how he would rule S, E, and W....have to ask Baelish about that one. I'm kinda done arguing about this topic, since we've kinda said all there is to say. I just wanna say that I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I wouldn't put it past him but it's also a very long shot.

      Just one last thing: the actor and writers said that he didn't know about Ramsey, and he would have no reason to investigate Lyanna's death. To him, there's no point.
      Huh. Where'd ya heard that? Cuz that makes no sense with Ramsay's (you keep spelling his name wrong..it kinga bugs) goal of sitting on the iron throne with Sansa as his wife.


      I belive before episode five aired, the writers and actor did some interviews talking about how Littlefinger feels awful for what happened to Sansa. Littlefinger also says in season 5 that he hadn't heard much about Ramsay, which is rare as lords go. 

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    • having in account how big is his network spy, I would not be suprised if he know something about it.

      what I'm wonder is what will happen if he unintencionally damage jon's kingdom with his tricks and intrigues, allowing the night king to enter to the south, how will survive with his tricks?

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    • Well, ultimately, whatever Littlefinger did know or was planning has been rendered irrelevant.

      As for why he said "in the South"...I'd imagine it's fairly similar to how the Free Folk refer to folks from south of the Wall as Southerners - He's born in the South because he wasn't born in the North, but somewhere south during the Rebellion. Nobody now living(except Howland Reed, who was there, and Bran, through his visions) knows just how far South Jon was born, or to whom, though. 

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