FANDOM


  • I'm not mad they killed Stannis, I wasn't expecting him to win, but... I hate that the battle they'd been building up all season happened off-screen, and that Stannis was just dead a few minutes in. It felt rushed and anti-climactic as hell.

    As for the rest, it was great. Theon finally getting a grip and escaping with Sansa was good, Arya killing Meryn was satisfying as hell, Myrcella dying was sad, Cersei's walk of shame was also satisfying, Robert Strong (Cleganebowl! Get hyped!), Daenerys getting captured by Khal Jhaqo (I assume it's the same as the books on this, but who knows) was interesting and of course... Jon's death. I knew it was coming since it happened in the books... but still sad.

    What made it for me was Stannis' last words. "Do your duty". It was exactly how I'd pictured his death. No excuses, no justification, no begging.

    Just do it. Stannis looked... done. Tired. Broken. Death was probably a relief.

    All in all I'd rank it as 7/10, decent, but the Battle of Winterfell anti-climax really soured it for me.

      Loading editor
    • No budget left this year for another big battle scene.

        Loading editor
    • Ser Patrek wrote:
      No budget left this year for another big battle scene.

      Apparently not :(

        Loading editor
    • Flatly stating "Go on then, do your duty" are Stannis' perfect last words. Nothing encapsulates him better, really.

        Loading editor
    • Everyone is so mad about Stannis' death... but I actually liked it.  At first, I was thinking "wow, just like that... he's dead? No more Stannis? Come on, he deserved something epic." Looking back in hindsight though, it was truly an excellent death, especially for a man like Stannis. It's mostly book readers saying "he hasn't died in the books!", but if I recall correctly, the books and TV show are supposed to have the same ending, even if they go off in different plot directions. So I think book Stannis is doomed.

      Not seeing the battle was a little disappointing, but you can't always get what you want. The showrunners had to play the cards they were dealt with; either we don't see the battle with the season 5 finale, or we end up having to wait a year to see it in season 6. They spent their budget with Dany riding Drogon and the massacre at Hardhome, which I think was worth every penny. Perhaps the build-up could have been toned down a few notches in previous episodes though.

      The rest of the episode was great. Cersei's scene was handled excellently. The actress and even the double did an excellent job portraying her. No complaints there. The scene with Melisandre returning to Castle Black, being greeted by Jon Snow and Davos, was powerful. Myrcella's death was... very emotional. Jaime was able to enjoy 10 seconds of fatherhood, and just like that, his daughter is gone. I saw it coming though. I'm expecting Dornish battles next season. At least we'll get to see more of Dorne. I just hope Doran is able to make it through all of this. He's pretty much the last living lord (other than Dany) that I like.

      Speaking of Dany, her scene was pretty good too. Dropping that ring was like her letting go of her past, but it was also smart. I have no idea how she will get out of this one though. I think something along the lines of, "DROGON JUST BURNS THE KHALASAR", would be a bit of a rush and a waste of what could have been a great storyline, so I hope it doesn't end like that.

      Finally, Jon. The scene that made me the saddest. I saw it coming. But it still hit me the hardest. Seeing Benjen in the previews was a great way to trick the viewers. Olly even had me for a few seconds, but then I realized, it's freakin' Olly. You can tell it really hurt Jon though - well, I mean, not the knives, but the emotions. I don't think he's ever forgotten about his uncle Benjen, and has always prayed for his return. Alliser Thorne was pretty expected, then (only?) a couple of other members, but Olly in the end was just too much for me. I felt like falling on the floor and crying like a baby. Jon fell back, betrayed and murdered, in a pool of his own blood. Then suddenly... LIGHT! The snow seemed to brighten up. I was expecting something big to happen. It looks like they only did that though to show us the blood, so my hopes were crushed. Then I was expecting his eyes to go blank white, or perhaps Ghost to walk up to him... but nope. He just... died.

      I won't get too much into speculation, but I am anticipating something "big" to happen in the next season or the one after that. COME ON, MELISANDRE AND SAMWELL!

        Loading editor
    • I don't think Jon is going to die.

        Loading editor
    • Kit Harrington flat out said he's not coming back next season.

      "But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really."

      http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview.

        Loading editor
    • Well of course he would say that. Even if he's dead, he's coming back to cameo as a corpse, so he's lying even then.

        Loading editor
    • ArticXiongmao wrote:
      Well of course he would say that. Even if he's dead, he's coming back to cameo as a corpse, so he's lying even then.

      I'm pretty sure he means he's not acting next season, I doubt posing as a corpse would count in his mind (it wouldn't for me, at any rate). Not to mention the episode director saying in an interview:

      Q: The book is a little ambiguous. This looked final. It's safe to say Jon is dead?

      A: Jon Snow is dead.

        Loading editor
    • I'm surprised Jon is said not to be coming back next year, especially since Melisandre returned to Castle Black and can bring people back to life with the whole Lord of Light voo-doo.

      All in all, very anti-climatic for me. Thankfully Dance of Dragons more than made up for it. In all honesty, I was more surprised by Myrcella's death than Jon's. With Jon's I was left thinking, "Hmmm, well.. OK, then." I thought he had a big story in the end of this series. Shows what we know eh?

        Loading editor
    • Well, Kit can't admit to be coming back... that would ruin the surprise! No idea how he'll film his scenes with being spotted.

        Loading editor
    • Have... have you considered it'd be simple, since he won't be there? Other than as a corpse :P

      I really wouldn't be surprised he's permanently dead. This is GRRM, after all.

        Loading editor
    • But.. I mean.. there was so much more to him.. who his true parents were, his future in the series. I just find it hard to believe he's dead. It feels like they are just trying to "keep us talking about it" all year until the show returns next summer-- when I feel like he WILL be returning. Idk... I'm just left feeling "meh" about this writing decision.

      Oh, and if they want to beat the White Walkers, they stand a slim chance without Jon... just my personal view.

        Loading editor
    • Sorry, but... "He's dead, Jim." Most likely.

      We may still find out who his real parents were... if the theory is true. Obviously it could very well be the Ned was indeed his father. We'll find out eventually, hopefully.

      But for now, it's safe to say Jon went the way of Ned, Robb, and all the other main characters to kick the bucket.

        Loading editor
    • Well I hope Melisandre resurrect Jon ._." 

        Loading editor
    • But if it is a song of Fire and Ice.. wouldn't he be "Ice" in the equation? Or do you think it is someone else?


      Oooh and maybe "Jon Snow" is dead... but his true self is still going to reveal itself if he is resurrected?!

        Loading editor
    • QueenBuffy wrote:
      But if it is a song of Fire and Ice.. wouldn't he be "Ice" in the equation? Or do you think it is someone else?


      Oooh and maybe "Jon Snow" is dead... but his true self is still going to reveal itself if he is resurrected?!

      It could be that... or maybe Jon isn't Azor Ahai. I've a very compelling theory suggesting it may in fact be Jaime, with Brienne taking the role of Nissa Nissa. 

        Loading editor
    • Jaime?! Seriously?!!? Don't give me a heart attack!!!! THAT would be amazing on so many levels!!!! He does deserve a good woman. :D

        Loading editor
    • A lot of theories, including that Bran is now a servant of the Great Other. A lot of weird yet compelling stuff. http://endgameofthrones.com/about/

        Loading editor
    • I would have been sad about Stannis' death... if he hadn't burned his own daughter at the stake. I feel that Stannis' storyline has been a bit of a rollercoaster this season, he started the season as the cold and calculating military leader that he has always been, then he showed his softer side in his conversation with Shireen, before becoming a massive bastard for killing her in the way that he did, and to top it all off, he ended the season back where he started, a real commander and warrior.

      Myrcella's death was quite sad, (why does it seem that everyone's daughters are being killed off after heartfelt conversations...) and the Sand Snakes have really been bugging me this season. Don't get me wrong, I loved Oberyn as a character, he was one of my favourites until he got his head bashed in, but they really went about getting revenge in the wrong way, if anything it showed that they were just as bad as the Lannisters. Did Oberyn not say "We don't hurt little girls in Dorne." during the Purple Wedding?

      Personally, I think Jon is dead and that's that. Sure Melisandre is currently at the wall and she does seemingly have the power to bring people back from the dead, but since Kit Harrington revealed that he wasn't coming back next season, it pretty much sets Jon's death in stone, even though his death in the books was left somewhat ambiguous... Which means that, since David & Dan are basically steering the series towards the same conclusion as the books, Jon is more-or-less confirmed to be dead or at least not a major character in the rest of the book series.

      Honestly, I thought it was a pretty good episode. I wouldn't stick a rating to it, but although there were big battles (since the Winterfell battle was rather lame), it did rather neatly tie up a lot of story arcs, which makes me think that perhaps we're leading up to something quite big.

        Loading editor
    • Brainsbeer wrote:

      Personally, I think Jon is dead and that's that. Sure Melisandre is currently at the wall and she does seemingly have the power to bring people back from the dead...

      But that's the thing: she doesn't. Thoros did, but he says he doesn't undertsand how, since he's performed the "Last Kiss" ritual on dead people before and it only ever resurrected Beric. It's not supposed to do that, it's a rite for the departed, not a resurrection spell.

        Loading editor
    • I just find his death hard to swallow.. it was so... lame. lol

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:

      But that's the thing: she doesn't. Thoros did, but he says he doesn't undertsand how, since he's performed the "Last Kiss" ritual on dead people before and it only ever resurrected Beric. It's not supposed to do that, it's a rite for the departed, not a resurrection spell.

      Yeah, that's a good point, but I still wouldn't put the idea of resurrection past her, especially since it was such a topic for discussion after Jon died in the books. We've not really seen the full extent of the powers of the red priestesses, shadow assassins, the deaths of Robb and Joffrey, "supposedly" as a result of Melisandre's magic. Plus in the books Thoros technically resurrects Catelyn using Beric's life-force. I wouldn't say that resurrection is completely off the cards, but it's highly doubtful.

        Loading editor
    • Brainsbeer wrote:

      Yeah, that's a good point, but I still wouldn't put the idea of resurrection past her, especially since it was such a topic for discussion after Jon died in the books. We've not really seen the full extent of the powers of the red priestesses, shadow assassins, the deaths of Robb and Joffrey, "supposedly" as a result of Melisandre's magic. Plus in the books Thoros technically resurrects Catelyn using Beric's life-force. I wouldn't say that resurrection is completely off the cards, but it's highly doubtful.

      Actually it was Beric himself who "Kissed" Catelyn, his life force went into her. In essence, he died permanently to give her "life".

        Loading editor
    • Oh yeah, and Jon can also warg, right?

        Loading editor
    • QueenBuffy wrote:
      Oh yeah, and Jon can also warg, right?

      Not in the show, apparently...

        Loading editor
    • That we know of ;)

      Idk.. with Melisandre realzing she had it all wrong with Stannis, and fleeing back to Castle Black.. something just tells me Jon isn't finished. Something just feels "unfinished" about him. Just as she looked into the fire for a vision of Azor and only saw Snow... there are just too many things that point to Jon, to have him taken out in such a horrible way. His character earned more respect than that.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:

      Actually it was Beric himself who "Kissed" Catelyn, his life force went into her. In essence, he died permanently to give her "life".

      In any case, that makes two Lord of Light 'devotees' who have resurrected two other people. Like I said, I wouldn't put resurrection past Melisandre, but I doubt she'd resurrect Jon.

        Loading editor
    • I was pissed for most of the episode due to the fact that stannis Death had been spoiled for me and when I saw the battle and his death it sucked to be honest also i didn't care about sansa or reek because the repeating of Sansas abuse is what gave this season low ratings. Arya expexted her killing trant and i liked it but i was pissed that we didn't get to hear if syrio is alive which i Believe he is. Jons death was also something i knew about but it was also spoiled and the kid stabbing him didn't come as a suprice. Something that anoid me though is that we didn't get an awesome cliffhanger like in Dance of dragons with Jon. The essos stuff was good and the dorne stuff were better than i thought with most of that being pretty boring Another reason this seasons start was bad.

        Loading editor
    • I find Stannis' "death" far more upsetting than Jon's, because as a book reader, I truly did not know how it would go when he attacked Winterfell, He's still alive in the book and many of points brought up with his attack on Winterfell in the series, burning his daughter for example, can't happen in the book at this current time.

      Then their is the fact that the show runners sort of broke their own rule on showing death's. They have gone on record as saying that when they mean for a character to be dead and for the audience not to speculate on it, they make it clear they have died. They don't do this with Stannis, which is really frustrating as a viewer, and all we get is a off hand confirmation on the HBO guide page. The only reason for the cut away is to make us wonder if he's still alive or if Brienne went through with it, but that is complety disamred by the website out right stating Brienne killed him so why even bother with the editing trick.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis was never shown as being killed, they cut away last second which means he's most likely alive.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis is dead... Brienne wouldn't leave him alive.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis' death makes one game-changing fact : Melissandre didn't believe in him, she manipulated him in order to get king's blood. When seeing the wind turned against Stannis, she understood he wasn't the Lord of Light's champion.

      Maybe Brienne spared him, but I hardly see how he could bounce back. He already had few forces, that were annihilated. The ONLY thing that may make him win Winterfell would be having the northern lords rally to him, that would catch up with my predictions for the book (victory for Stannis thanks to a trojan horse tactic)

        Loading editor
    • 108.92.190.89 wrote:
      Stannis was never shown as being killed, they cut away last second which means he's most likely alive.

      In any other case that would be more than likely, but the HBO viewer guide has stated him to be dead. Granted that the site hasn't always been the most reliable source int he past, it currently stands as the only concrete confirmation one way or another.


      I personally don't think he really is dead, but what I believe is of little importence, the site get's more say than any user ever could. The only thing that would over ride that information is somthing or someone directly involved in the show said or else hinted to somthing else.

        Loading editor
    • Scarfacemperor wrote:
      Stannis' death makes one game-changing fact : Melissandre didn't believe in him, she manipulated him in order to get king's blood. When seeing the wind turned against Stannis, she understood he wasn't the Lord of Light's champion.

      Maybe Brienne spared him, but I hardly see how he could bounce back. He already had few forces, that were annihilated. The ONLY thing that may make him win Winterfell would be having the northern lords rally to him, that would catch up with my predictions for the book (victory for Stannis thanks to a trojan horse tactic)

      The only thing that I think wold ever casue Brienne to spar Stannis is her for some reason trying to use him to save Sansa. Had the encounter happened while he still had his army, I think that would happen, but with most of his army destroyed and the rest deserting him and Stannis himself injured, I can't see her doing this unless she think's he can rally people to her side.

      Even if that did happen, he's in a worse spot than after the Blackwater. Unless he managed to run into Sansa immediatly and get her on his side, and by extention the Northern Lords, he's pretty much at the end of his rope. Which They actully showed pretty well in the show, he was ready to die when Brienne showed up.

        Loading editor
    • For Stannis' death I got to say this: It is unknown if, in the books, Stannis is alive or not, as Ramsay sends a letter to Castleblack stating that he killed him. It is unknown if its true or not. So, if Stannis died in the serie, its OK, since its quite close in the books.

        Loading editor
    • There are no suprises for book readers in case of arya blindness, cersei penance walk, sansa and theon escape (probably i mean jeyne poole and theon escape), Ser Robert Strong (The Mountain Reborn), Danenerys Targaryen surrounded by dothroki army and importantly JON SNOW possibly death.. But myrcella possibly death is surprising and so do stannis possibly death suprising even for book readers too..  I'm mentioning POSSIBLY deaths becoz we don't know whether the characters are conformly dead..

      And don't worry Jon snow fans,,   "Azhor Ahai Reborn" aka "The Prince that was promised" will be coming in season 6 and some of you will even forgive red women melisandre for her crimes because of that thing she will do in next season....

        Loading editor
    • If Jon is Azor Ahai, and if he's not perma-dead. If he is a warg his "spirit" would go into Ghost, and I can't see a direwolf leading the living against the dead:P

      Whole lot of ifs. GRRM has to tell us in the next book who Azor Ahai is, or if it's even an accurate prophecy and not a red herring. Okay he doesn't HAVE to, but it'd be nice...

      Apparently he's going to have book 6 ready before Season 6 starts, he's cancelling public appearances (ComicCon and World Convention) and didn't write an episode for Season 5 to have more writing time to finish Winds of Winter.

        Loading editor
    • Sriharsha440 wrote: There are no suprises for book readers in case of arya blindness, cersei penance walk, sansa and theon escape (probably i mean jeyne poole and theon escape), Ser Robert Strong (The Mountain Reborn), Danenerys Targaryen surrounded by dothroki army and importantly JON SNOW possibly death.. But myrcella possibly death is surprising and so do stannis possibly death suprising even for book readers too..  I'm mentioning POSSIBLY deaths becoz we don't know whether the characters are conformly dead..

      And don't worry Jon snow fans,,   "Azhor Ahai Reborn" aka "The Prince that was promised" will be coming in season 6 and some of you will even forgive red women melisandre for her crimes because of that thing she will do in next season....

      Yeah, I'm pretty sure Melisandre will be a loved character after sving Jon Snow. Just like Littlefinger was so hated and Olenna was forgivable before they killed Joffrey.

        Loading editor
    • I am hoping Melisandre gets to Jon Snow in time and resurrects him. I feel that he is still the third Dragon rider and needs to confirm the R+L=J theory. As for Stannis, after sacrificing his own daughter, he has shown that he would not be a good leader and is not a good family man. A ruler has to emerge that will have the people's welfare and safety at the forefront of their rule. That Stannis will sacrifice anything and anyone shows that he was ultimately unworthy. This episode is not getting my hopes up that the Starks will get their revenge or will rule Winterfell in the future! The Boltons and The Freys need to be taken down and made to suffer for what they did!

        Loading editor
    • Am I the only one who doesn't want Melisandre's story to intertwine with Jon Snow's? I mean, if it means to resurrect him, by all means do it because I'd really prefer Jon to be alive... but I never really wanted her story to combine with his. Even if some of those prophecies are true, I never really liked the "Lord of Light" idea - well, it's a good idea, but I never thought of him being the one true god in GoT. That's a personal opinion though; I never got used to the mythological storylines, other than the white walkers and dragons. I always preferred the political dramas, battles, and whatnot. However, once again, if it means saving Jon Snow, so be it.

      If I recall correctly, despite the show going off in different plot directions than the books, they're both going to end the same way. From an interview with David Benioff:

      "And so we’ll eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going; there might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination."

      If Jon Snow is dead in the show permanently, then he won't play a big role in the books probably. I have the same thinking with Stannis, his wife and Shireen; they'll probably die in the next book, it just won't happen as abruptly as it did in the show. I'm hoping that Jon Snow is saved somehow.

        Loading editor
    • The Boltons are cool, they are intelligent. But the Freys, I got to admit that I freaking hate them. Lol.

        Loading editor
    • First off. I didn't read the books but I will so I am not juging about the differences. And sorry about grammar mistakes - English isn't my mother language! 

      Reddyredcp wrote:
      Everyone is so mad about Stannis' death... but I actually liked it.  At first, I was thinking "wow, just like that... he's dead? No more Stannis? Come on, he deserved something epic." Looking back in hindsight though, it was truly an excellent death, especially for a man like Stannis. It's mostly book readers saying "he hasn't died in the books!", but if I recall correctly, the books and TV show are supposed to have the same ending, even if they go off in different plot directions. So I think book Stannis is doomed.

      This. The mistake Stannis was making is that he fought alone. He only had Davos and he was so focussed in beeing the Lord of Light as Melisandre said. At the end around Season 4 and well Season 5 you really saw that Stannis didn't have enough willpower to make it to the throne. He seems tired and old and with the sacrifice of his dauther I think he lost everything and in this war you saw that he just wanted to say "It's over man" because Stannis is a good fighter and made good fight-plans in the past and to attack Winterfell like this was more an act of beeing tired of everything. Come on Winterfell has to be captured by stealthy missions and not knocking on Roose Boltons door and believe you can come in.

      The short Arya-part was verry confusing but interesting and it left a great cliffhanger. Her story, besides just this episode, was in the whole Season a great success and hopefully in the next Season she will be have her "real" training for beeing noone. The Cersei-part was interesting too, I loved it but while she was walking to the castle again I was more thinking of what she will do next, what are her lessons from this? Because with beeing now a nice persons Game of Thrones will lose a more or less good antagonist.

      I wasn't actually really mad on that Myrcella-part and like the prophesy of Cersei said that her children is gonna die and it was just a matter of time. The whole Dorne-thing in this season was more a filler. The scene with Jaime and his daughter was nice but not heartbreaking for me and I don't think this will have many chain reactions. Only a Cersei who will have a broken heart.

      I think my favourite moment was the one with Tyrion, Jorah and Daario because I think Tyrion will do his job as a right hand for Daenerys and as ruler of Meereen fabulous and I liked it that Jorah has now really a second chance and bromance reuinion with Daario finding Daenerys while she still has problems with her teenager Dragon. Girl, you really should watch "How you train your Dragon".

      I knew something will happen on the Wall and I knew something bad gonna happen and I wasn't really shocked that Jon died it was more how he died. I knew Allisar loved this scene but Olly? Seriously that kid is more annying than Jeoffrey and Ramsay together. Glibberish backgroundstory, Jon gave him a new home and a new "family" and then this. It feels like a sack of rice which is falling apart in just five seconds or when the air goes fast out of a balloon. I think that's the first character I even hate in the whole TV-Show.

      However this episode was great, it binding all plot-lines together, the storylines of each characters are much clearer and I can't wait for Season 6!

        Loading editor
    • Firstlensman wrote:
      I am hoping Melisandre gets to Jon Snow in time and resurrects him. I feel that he is still the third Dragon rider and needs to confirm the R+L=J theory. As for Stannis, after sacrificing his own daughter, he has shown that he would not be a good leader and is not a good family man. A ruler has to emerge that will have the people's welfare and safety at the forefront of their rule. That Stannis will sacrifice anything and anyone shows that he was ultimately unworthy. This episode is not getting my hopes up that the Starks will get their revenge or will rule Winterfell in the future! The Boltons and The Freys need to be taken down and made to suffer for what they did!

      I wouldn't get my hope up. Kit Harington has pretty much stated that Jon is really dead.

      I would argue against the fact of sacrificing his daughter doesn't make Stannis a good leader. It certinally doesn't make his a good Father, but he put his duty before anything else, even his family. Maester Aemon said in season one that "Love is the Death of Duty", and even Ned Stark put his family over what was right, despite Jon saying otherwise. Stannis put the welfare of the realm over his own personal wants and desires, that's why he went North in the first place. As far as he knew the only way to save the realm was to defeat the Boltan, take the North, and eventully lead a unified realm against the White Walkers.

      We can now look back in hidnsight and say it was not the correct choice, but at the time, it was the best option he had.

        Loading editor
    • A lot of people either forget or don't know that GRRM has told the show producers how the entire story ends, in case he dies before finishing the novels. If someone dies in the show who's still alive as of the latest book, it's because they're gong to die. Especially major characters.

        Loading editor
    • NOOOOO, Jonno

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      A lot of people either forget or don't know that GRRM has told the show producers how the entire story ends, in case he dies before finishing the novels. If someone dies in the show who's still alive as of the latest book, it's because they're gong to die. Especially major characters.


      Thank you so much. I thought I was the only person who realized this, haha. If Stannis dies in the show, he's going to die in the books. His book death just might be handled... better than it was in the show.

        Loading editor
    • Reddyredcp wrote:
      Thank you so much. I thought I was the only person who realized this, haha. If Stannis dies in the show, he's going to die in the books. His book death just might be handled... better than it was in the show.

      Like with Shireen when she died: on the Ice and Fire forums, people were crying out how the producers were "making shit up", until someone posted a link to an intrview revealing that it was in fact GRRM who told the producers how Shireen was going to die in the upcoming books.

        Loading editor
    • I may just choke on my own vomit about this episode and of the show in general!



      Pracically ALL of the good or more or less good characters are dead or (In Jon's case) dying


      And whoopdefriggindo TWO evil characters died as well I hope the writer didn't strain himself for that!!


      At this point the entire show is a HUGE disapointment!


      Wouldn't surprise me if they kill off Daenerys as well next season!


      OR we can only hope that Melisandre resssurect Jon Snow, otherwise there is NO ONE to lead the defense against the White Walkers!

        Loading editor
    • BrocktonBlocbuster wrote:

      He's still alive in the book and ...

      Are you sure? Ramsey sent a letter to Jon saying Stannis was dead.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis and Brienne.

      Arya killng Meryn (and Maisie was particularly good in the scene where she thought Jaqen was dead and then lost her sight).

      Cersei's walk. Very brutal and brilliant performance by Lena. The reveal of Ser Robert Strong was awesome (though he clearly still has his head, unlike what was hinted in the book).

      Stannis and Brienne. Honestly, I wasn't that annoyed that they skipped over the battle. It was clear that the Baratheon side didn't have a hope against the Boltons, so we would have just seen a slaughter.

      Jon's death.

      One of the personal highlights for me was Carice van Houten's performance. The looks she gave when she found out that half the men had deserted and when she got back to Castle Black were subtle but powerful. You could really tell how much Melisandre's faith had been shaken.

      I cheered when Theon killed Myranda.

        Loading editor
    • Also, just cuz Kit says he's not coming back doesn't mean Jon is gone: > he could be telling a story > it could be like Bran--skipping a season > he may be in Ghost for awhile then in ??? > if he's resurrected as Azor, he might be played by a different actor

      Just some thoughts. Or maybe just grasping at straws cuz I don't want him dead LOL

        Loading editor
    • QueenBuffy wrote: But if it is a song of Fire and Ice.. wouldn't he be "Ice" in the equation? Or do you think it is someone else

      I always thought the ICE was The Others and the FIRE was the dragons.

        Loading editor
    • I wouldn't even mind if Jon had died, if his death had served a better purpose...but something about his ending doesn't seem "right" to me. I can't help but feel like he isn't truly dead. While Kit said that "Jon Snow" is dead, I'm curious if he'll return in another way. If this WAS his true death, then BOO to the writers... I was extremely let down. Especially since we just found out that Jon (and his sword) can kill White Walkers. I've never been so disappointed in GoT before :(

        Loading editor
    • 98.168.130.121 wrote:

      QueenBuffy wrote: But if it is a song of Fire and Ice.. wouldn't he be "Ice" in the equation? Or do you think it is someone else

      I always thought the ICE was The Others and the FIRE was the dragons.


      Maybe. I always thought of Ice being L, fire being R, and Jon Snow being the song, therefore being the song of ice and fire. That is, however, assuming the R+L=J theory is true. It could be something as simple as that though.

        Loading editor
    • 98.168.130.121 wrote:

      QueenBuffy wrote: But if it is a song of Fire and Ice.. wouldn't he be "Ice" in the equation? Or do you think it is someone else

      I always thought the ICE was The Others and the FIRE was the dragons.

      I always thought Fire was Dany.. Ice.. Jon Snow. XD

        Loading editor
    • 98.168.130.121 wrote:

      BrocktonBlocbuster wrote:

      He's still alive in the book and ...

      Are you sure? Ramsey sent a letter to Jon saying Stannis was dead.

      Yes, Stannis is currently Alive, Winds of Winter preview chapter's confirm this much. If he surivies the battle or not is still up in the air.

        Loading editor
    • The Pink Letter is set after whatever happens in those early TWOW chapters.

        Loading editor
    • ArticXiongmao wrote:
      The Pink Letter is set after whatever happens in those early TWOW chapters.

      Is that confirmed anywhere? As far as I know, or can recall the Book's generally don't jump around in time, excepting A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows, which ran concurentlly with each other do to the fact they were orginall meant as one book.

        Loading editor
    • Reddyredcp wrote:

      Speaking of Dany, her scene was pretty good too. Dropping that ring was like her letting go of her past, but it was also smart.

      Actually, she dropped the ring only to show she had been there, as a bread crumb if you will, in case others were trailing/looking for her.

        Loading editor
    • Absolutely garbage season. Usually I'd say one bad episode of Game of Thrones is still superior to anything else on TV, but boy was this season the exception.

      Let's see:

      Dorne plotline: Jaime and Bronn are sent to Dorne to rescue Myrcella. End result: they make peace with House Martell but Myrella is unexpectedly killed on the boat after the marriage pact is tied. What was the point of this exactly? What does this do for Myrcella or Jaime or the Sand Snakes or House Martell? Since when has an entire plotline turned into filler?

      Stannis plotline: Stannis has been built up all the way from Season 1, as the true heir to the Iron Throne against Robert's bastard children. He loses the Battle of the Blackwater and "licks his wounds" a season later. We have last season's Wall plotline end with Stannis running the show, and then the severely anti-climactic Battle of Winterfell and then death of his character (yes I understand the budget was all gone, but for Pete's sake, at LEAST give him a damn on-screen death). I did like his final words though, that was a nice little gift that perfectly suited his character.

      Sansa plotline: I'm basically in agreement with what everyone has complained about with her this season; the rape scene. I don't really want to get into that but it didn't really do anything for her. Her walking down the stairs to greet Littlefinger last season was supposed to mean something. Anyway, I do like how they made Theon betray the Boltons and how they both jumped off the ledge.

      Overall the only plotline that really advanced anywhere this season was Tyrion's and maybe Cersei. For all it appears Daenerys is back where she was in Season 1 (I guess she can join Sansa, Stannis and Jon there though). The White Walkers were definitely the highlight of the season, and even though it has been rubbish, I do think Hardhome was one of the best episodes ever. The season had its moments that's for sure, but most everything else was pretty disgusting in my opinion.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I definitely rank season 5 as my least favourite season, by far. Though I still rank it as "good" overall, due to a) Cersei  FINALLY being removed as a player in the Game (Halle-freaking-lujah!) and Petyr almost ready to make his move to seize power.

      But Stannis... really liked him, until he killed Shireen. After that... well, death finally brought him peace.

      I hope Davos goes back to his keep on Cape Wrath and lives out his days with his family in peace.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Yeah, I definitely rank season 5 as my least favourite season, by far. Though I still rank it as "good" overall, due to a) Cersei  FINALLY being removed as a player in the Game (Halle-freaking-lujah!) and Petyr almost ready to make his move to seize power.

      But Stannis... really liked him, until he killed Shireen. After that... death finally brought him peace.

      I wouldn't be so sure about that, she's back in the Red Keep again, and I doubt she's going to change much unless they give her more of a "redemption" outlook next season. I also didn't understand how she was let off so easily (when you put into consideration what she was accused of). Adultery, incest, kingslaying, not to mention she had bastard children while the queen. I'm still uncertain about Littlefinger atm. There's just so much "fail" in this season for me that I could never rank it as "good" sadly. Nothing with so little outcome at the end of the season should be ranked as such.

        Loading editor
    • QueenBuffy wrote:
      I wouldn't even mind if Jon had died, if his death had served a better purpose...but something about his ending doesn't seem "right" to me. I can't help but feel like he isn't truly dead. While Kit said that "Jon Snow" is dead, I'm curious if he'll return in another way. If this WAS his true death, then BOO to the writers... I was extremely let down. Especially since we just found out that Jon (and his sword) can kill White Walkers. I've never been so disappointed in GoT before :(



      I couldn't agree more the "death" of Jon Snow seems hollow unless he is going to come back in some way.


      After all they bring back that ogre Clegane.

        Loading editor
    • Fenrisulven13 wrote:
      QueenBuffy wrote:
      I wouldn't even mind if Jon had died, if his death had served a better purpose...but something about his ending doesn't seem "right" to me. I can't help but feel like he isn't truly dead. While Kit said that "Jon Snow" is dead, I'm curious if he'll return in another way. If this WAS his true death, then BOO to the writers... I was extremely let down. Especially since we just found out that Jon (and his sword) can kill White Walkers. I've never been so disappointed in GoT before :(


      I couldn't agree more the "death" of Jon Snow seems hollow unless he is going to come back in some way.


      After all they bring back that ogre Clegane.

      Yeah but that's hardly "life": devoid of free will, never eating, never sleeping, and rotting away slowly... not exactly a boon.

      Jon's murder in fact has a purpose, it shows us that even with Ice Demons raising the dead to kill us all, people are still petty as hell :P

        Loading editor
    • Now without Jon to lead them, they are in serious trouble. But I do hope Jon does come back, it's just his death felt off to me.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Fenrisulven13 wrote:
      QueenBuffy wrote:
      I wouldn't even mind if Jon had died, if his death had served a better purpose...but something about his ending doesn't seem "right" to me. I can't help but feel like he isn't truly dead. While Kit said that "Jon Snow" is dead, I'm curious if he'll return in another way. If this WAS his true death, then BOO to the writers... I was extremely let down. Especially since we just found out that Jon (and his sword) can kill White Walkers. I've never been so disappointed in GoT before :(

      I couldn't agree more the "death" of Jon Snow seems hollow unless he is going to come back in some way.


      After all they bring back that ogre Clegane.

      Yeah but that's hardly "life": devoid of free will, never eating, never sleeping, and rotting away slowly... not exactly a boon.

      Jon's murder in fact has a purpose, it shows us that even with Ice Demons raising the dead to kill us all, people are still petty as hell :P



      Well I meant he comes back with some of Melisandre's mumbo jumbo.

        Loading editor
    • Fenrisulven13 wrote:

      Well I meant he comes back with some of Melisandre's mumbo jumbo.

      I know, I'm just saying Clegane isn't really "coming back", he's just a mindless zombie. As for Jon, in the unlikely event he comes back, will certainly not be staying in the Watch. 

        Loading editor
    • I thought Jon Snow was the "Promised Prince" & "Azor Ahai" but now Im sartng to think it could be Theon Greyjoy.

        Loading editor
    • Honestly, the Prince Who Was Promised could be anyone. Everyone seems to get stuck up on the "born of the Targaryen line" bit, but forget that's not part of the original prophecy! It was added on by some random hedge mage, who for all we know was pulling it out of their ass to gain favor with the Targaryen King.

      I've seen compelling theories for several characters, but with Stannis and Jon dead the two most likely are Daenerys and Jaime.

        Loading editor
    • SEASON 6 SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

      Kit Harington has confirmed Jon's death, and he says that he will NOT be returning for season 6.

      Source: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

      Sorry for all those who were hoping that Jon would "come back" (resurected by Mellisandre). 

        Loading editor
    • Sebahed wrote:
      SEASON 6 SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

      Kit Harington has confirmed Jon's death, and he says that he will NOT be returning for season 6.

      Source: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

      Sorry for all those who were hoping that Jon would "come back" (resurected by Mellisandre). 

      I posted that earlier in this thread, some people think he's lying :P

      Plus the director of the finale said flat out: "Jon Snow is dead."

      Those who really want him back will only believe it when next season comes and he's not there, I think.

        Loading editor
    • My money is on Theon. While reading A Dance with Dragons I couldn't help feel Theon's storyline was dragging on and for what? Maybe the "Jon Snow is a Targ and he is Azor.." was a red-herring.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Sebahed wrote:
      SEASON 6 SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

      Kit Harington has confirmed Jon's death, and he says that he will NOT be returning for season 6.

      Source: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

      Sorry for all those who were hoping that Jon would "come back" (resurected by Mellisandre). 

      I posted that earlier in this thread, some people think he's lying :P

      Plus the director of the finale said flat out: "Jon Snow is dead."

      Those who really want him back will only believe it when next season comes and he's not there, I think.

      Is there really a reason for Melisandre to come back to the Wall if Jon is gone for good? That might just be to spark some theories but all they have said is "Jon Snow is dead" and "he won't return in Season 6" but that does not discount possibilities in which he turned into a warg or was reborn as Azor Ahai. I'm not saying that he isn't dead, I'm just saying it isn't as black and white as you make it out to be. It is GOT after all..... anything can happen.....

      Also I think that if he returned, it would be in Season 7 rather than Season 6 so that they could focus on other storylines such as Bran;Dany with the Dothraki; Tyrion and Varys; and possibly even Rickon who is presumably still with the Umber's at Last Hearth.

        Loading editor
    • Ragingturtle wrote:

      Is there really a reason for Melisandre to come back to the Wall if Jon is gone for good? 

      Well to be fair, she has nowhere else to go :P

        Loading editor
    • What is dead may never truly die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands wrote:
      What is dead may never truly die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

      Lots of Ironborn say that. Yet when they die, they stay dead like all the rest :P

        Loading editor
    • You shouldn't have to let go of your dreams, Draevan. We can still have Young Griff. Behind the scenes fighting about show length. Keep the faith. There were problems this season but the contract fight is over. We will see another day.

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands wrote:
      You shouldn't have to let go of your dreams, Draevan. We can still have Young Griff. Behind the scenes fighting about show length. Keep the faith.

      I doubt it, they gave the Grescale to Jorah and had Tyrion get to Meereen without Haldon or Duck, I'm certain by now that Aegon's been cut.

        Loading editor
    • I thought it was a good episode. Shocking, yes, but a fitting finale.

      As a Stannis fan (albeit somewhat less so after the last episode!) it was obviously pretty galling to see him go out with a bit of a whimper. I certainly didn't really expect him to survive all the wau through, but I thought he would at least have lasted long enough to actually fight the White Walkers. From what was on screen, it looks like he may well have been outnumbered even if half his troops hadn't deserted. Nevertheless, I thought his death was handled well. As others have pointed out, he clearly realised his time was up when he saw the Bolton army approaching (and probably even earlier, when Melisandre fled), and it was fitting that Brienne was the one to do the deed. I'm glad it wasn't Ramsay!

      Jon's death was more shocking even though it was more predictable. Both his and Stannis' deaths were somewhat signposted by all their remaining allies and inner circle either dying or leaving in the recent past. Going into this series, again I'd have been confident that Jon would be around to lead the fight against the White Walkers, but the growing discontent was built up effectively over the last few episodes, and it was undoubtedly moving to see him die alone in the snow, especially after Olly delivered the final blow. As Draevan said, I don't see Melisandre resurrecting him as she was clearly surprised when Thoros managed it, and I doubt she's learned how to in the interim.

      With Stannis and Jon out of the way, it does look rather as if the North is totally screwed. The wildings and Night's Watch will presumably go back to killing each other, and the Boltons will have absolutely no regard for the bigger picture, I imagine they'll continue to concern themselves with securing their own position. The gradual forging of alliances to combat the greater threat seems to be in ruins, so unless the Walkers really can't climb the Wall I don't fancy anyone's chances up there. Also, I'm not sure I'd be too keen to volunteer for Lord Commander given the increasingly fashionable trend of Death by Mutiny.

      Myrcella's death was totally unexpected for me. The Dorne plotline was a bit of a damp squib overall but that moment certainly caught me unawares. I'd guess Trystane will now be a hostage of the Lannisters, with a nice fresh dose of war to follow. I wonder if Bronn will have time to get married.

      I'll be interested to see what happens with Sansa, Arya, Daenerys and her Merry Men. Sansa's storyline hasn't been great this season, but at least she's brought out whatever scrap of decency is left in Theon. I'm not really sure where she can go now - back to the Vale so Littlefinger can bring her along again when he returns to the North with his army? Arya's storyline was better but pretty slow, so I'll look forward to seeing what happens when (if?) she gets her sight back. With all the Stark children, I do wonder how much they'll actually be able to influence events when it comes to the crunch given how far off their goals seem to be. The reappearance of the Dothraki was another surprise. As there's now the option of Drogon Saves the Day, I couldn't really guess how long they'll hang around this time, but I would rather like her to get a move on and start saving Westeros sometime soon. Now that I don't have to worry about her beating Stannis, her and her dragons can have a clear run at the White Walkers as far as I'm concerned. Good to see Varys back, I'd love some more interplay between him and Tyrion next season, so hopefully their double act will last a bit longer than it did this season.

      I'm not sure yet how I'd rate this season compared to the others. At the moment I'd probably put it about level with the last one as my least favourite. I still thoroughly enjoyed it, but with so many strands to keep going it's still a bit too disjointed, and even though Hardhome was awesome, spending long chunks of time on certain strands means that others get overlooked, but equally it wouldn't be satisfying to zip through all the various strands just for the sake of fitting them all in. Maybe that's partly why they were a bit more ruthless in killing off characters compared to the books. My general sense is that the first time at the end of season I am now waiting for the endgame rather than waiting to see what the next strand to be introduced will be, so I hope there's more concrete progress towards that in the next season.

        Loading editor
    • I think it is safe to say that we should't assume that he will return, considering that he specifically said that he wouldn't. It is not usual for actors to be LYING about things like this. If there was a possibillity for him to return next season, he would say some thing like "I don't know" or "maybe" or "we will see". 

      And to top it off, Kit Harrington has over numerous occations said that he wouldn't be on Game of Thrones forever, that he would rather pursue acting in movies. And considering Kit is now and international star he has the abillity to do that now. 

      Some people are just to fixated on the fact that he "might return" because they love him so much that they are forgetting that this is what happens in Game of Thrones when you choose honor/loyalty/love over being smart. Which are the reasons why both Ned and Robb are dead.

      Even though Jon's decicion of rescuing the wildlings was the smartest move on the overall scale it wasn't the best move on his part.

        Loading editor
    • Just like when bookreader are talking about LS and bringing her in. They want her to appear so badly because it works well in a story sense in the books, but it would't make any sense what so ever in the TV adaption.

        Loading editor
    • Well in terms of seasonal ranking, it's: Season 1 far above the rest (it was easier to adapt as it was more focused), Season 3, Season 4 slightly behind Season 3, and then Season 2 very low below the rest (learning curve). Season 5 was very uneven by storyline due to condensing them. Daenerys or even Cersei were good....but Dorne drags much of the average down. Condensing the Bolton/Stannis stuff very badly in second half didn't help either.

        Loading editor
    • Personally, I rank the Seasons best to worst 1-2-3-4-5, I hope the next season isn't so... bleh. 

        Loading editor
    • All I know is, somehow, the writers managed to make me dislike Jon Snow. Killing him off that way makes me realize how pointless he was as a character. I really could care less about the Nights Watch now, and any scene at Castle Black.

        Loading editor
    • I'll be interested so long as Sam, Davos and Melisandre are there, mainly because I think Davos is going to kill her.

        Loading editor
    • Sebahed wrote:
      I think it is safe to say that we should't assume that he will return, considering that he specifically said that he wouldn't. It is not usual for actors to be LYING about things like this. If there was a possibillity for him to return next season, he would say some thing like "I don't know" or "maybe" or "we will see". 

      And to top it off, Kit Harrington has over numerous occations said that he wouldn't be on Game of Thrones forever, that he would rather pursue acting in movies. And considering Kit is now and international star he has the abillity to do that now. 

      Some people are just to fixated on the fact that he "might return" because they love him so much that they are forgetting that this is what happens in Game of Thrones when you choose honor/loyalty/love over being smart. Which are the reasons why both Ned and Robb are dead.

      Even though Jon's decicion of rescuing the wildlings was the smartest move on the overall scale it wasn't the best move on his part.

      Ruling any role Jon Snow has in the future is simply not considering all of the possibilities.... He doesn't have to appear as Kit Harrington if he is transformed into a warg or as Azor Ahai, who presumably has different physical characteristics: hence different actor. 

        Loading editor
    • QueenBuffy wrote:
      I just find his death hard to swallow.. it was so... lame. lol


      Me to :/

        Loading editor
    • Ragingturtle wrote:
      Sebahed wrote:
      I think it is safe to say that we should't assume that he will return, considering that he specifically said that he wouldn't. It is not usual for actors to be LYING about things like this. If there was a possibillity for him to return next season, he would say some thing like "I don't know" or "maybe" or "we will see". 

      And to top it off, Kit Harrington has over numerous occations said that he wouldn't be on Game of Thrones forever, that he would rather pursue acting in movies. And considering Kit is now and international star he has the abillity to do that now. 

      Some people are just to fixated on the fact that he "might return" because they love him so much that they are forgetting that this is what happens in Game of Thrones when you choose honor/loyalty/love over being smart. Which are the reasons why both Ned and Robb are dead.

      Even though Jon's decicion of rescuing the wildlings was the smartest move on the overall scale it wasn't the best move on his part.

      Ruling any role Jon Snow has in the future is simply not considering all of the possibilities.... He doesn't have to appear as Kit Harrington if he is transformed into a warg or as Azor Ahai, who presumably has different physical characteristics: hence different actor. 

      Highly unlikely, I'd say even out right impossible. A show will generally only recast a character when it is abolutely needed. They would never recast a character for the reason's listed, becasue it casues unessecary amount of confusion. When ever the show did a recast it was for more important reasons, what's more when ever they have done a recast it was done to a character who had, at the time at least, not been extremely exposed to the audience.

      There is also no logical reason to think him be "Azor Ahai" would casue him any large physical change. And the Warg theroy loses ground on the facr we saw Jon's eye's as he died and he didn't "Warg Out" as he died, what's more he doesn't have any real experience warging at all, at least on an intentional level. In the TV series especilly this trait is almost completly ignored.

        Loading editor
    • BrocktonBlocbuster wrote:
      Ragingturtle wrote:
      Sebahed wrote:
      I think it is safe to say that we should't assume that he will return, considering that he specifically said that he wouldn't. It is not usual for actors to be LYING about things like this. If there was a possibillity for him to return next season, he would say some thing like "I don't know" or "maybe" or "we will see". 

      And to top it off, Kit Harrington has over numerous occations said that he wouldn't be on Game of Thrones forever, that he would rather pursue acting in movies. And considering Kit is now and international star he has the abillity to do that now. 

      Some people are just to fixated on the fact that he "might return" because they love him so much that they are forgetting that this is what happens in Game of Thrones when you choose honor/loyalty/love over being smart. Which are the reasons why both Ned and Robb are dead.

      Even though Jon's decicion of rescuing the wildlings was the smartest move on the overall scale it wasn't the best move on his part.

      Ruling any role Jon Snow has in the future is simply not considering all of the possibilities.... He doesn't have to appear as Kit Harrington if he is transformed into a warg or as Azor Ahai, who presumably has different physical characteristics: hence different actor. 
      Highly unlikely, I'd say even out right impossible. A show will generally only recast a character when it is abolutely needed. They would never recast a character for the reason's listed, becasue it casues unessecary amount of confusion. When ever the show did a recast it was for more important reasons, what's more when ever they have done a recast it was done to a character who had, at the time at least, not been extremely exposed to the audience.

      There is also no logical reason to think him be "Azor Ahai" would casue him any large physical change. And the Warg theroy loses ground on the facr we saw Jon's eye's as he died and he didn't "Warg Out" as he died, what's more he doesn't have any real experience warging at all, at least on an intentional level. In the TV series especilly this trait is almost completly ignored.

      Never say never in GOT......

        Loading editor
    • If Jon's dead, I'm gonna cheer for the white walkers then! 

        Loading editor
    • Ragingturtle wrote:
      BrocktonBlocbuster wrote:
      Ragingturtle wrote:
      Sebahed wrote:
      I think it is safe to say that we should't assume that he will return, considering that he specifically said that he wouldn't. It is not usual for actors to be LYING about things like this. If there was a possibillity for him to return next season, he would say some thing like "I don't know" or "maybe" or "we will see". 

      And to top it off, Kit Harrington has over numerous occations said that he wouldn't be on Game of Thrones forever, that he would rather pursue acting in movies. And considering Kit is now and international star he has the abillity to do that now. 

      Some people are just to fixated on the fact that he "might return" because they love him so much that they are forgetting that this is what happens in Game of Thrones when you choose honor/loyalty/love over being smart. Which are the reasons why both Ned and Robb are dead.

      Even though Jon's decicion of rescuing the wildlings was the smartest move on the overall scale it wasn't the best move on his part.

      Ruling any role Jon Snow has in the future is simply not considering all of the possibilities.... He doesn't have to appear as Kit Harrington if he is transformed into a warg or as Azor Ahai, who presumably has different physical characteristics: hence different actor. 
      Highly unlikely, I'd say even out right impossible. A show will generally only recast a character when it is abolutely needed. They would never recast a character for the reason's listed, becasue it casues unessecary amount of confusion. When ever the show did a recast it was for more important reasons, what's more when ever they have done a recast it was done to a character who had, at the time at least, not been extremely exposed to the audience.

      There is also no logical reason to think him be "Azor Ahai" would casue him any large physical change. And the Warg theroy loses ground on the facr we saw Jon's eye's as he died and he didn't "Warg Out" as he died, what's more he doesn't have any real experience warging at all, at least on an intentional level. In the TV series especilly this trait is almost completly ignored.

      Never say never in GOT......

      That philosphey only applies to the unknown. When the show runner's and the actor say he's dead and not coming back, then you take them at face value.

        Loading editor
    • I felt that Daenerys didn't particularly go anywhere though. Her whole purpose this season was to get Meereen under control and that didn't work out so well and so Tyrion has taken over. Couldn't that have been accomplished script-standards in the first few episodes?

        Loading editor
    • So:

      - Stannis is dead. Jon is dead. North is doomed, as usual.

      - Arya will have to become a blind ninja now.

      - Tyrion will turn Meereen into his whorehouse. No Tywin to stop him this time.

      Daenerys will get raped by Dothraki again. It's hard to be the dragon nowadays.

      - Jaime failed. No sister to get laid now. At least Bronn have a new friendship.

      - 5 minutes of nude Cersei. Approved by Pycelle, perhaps, his face is priceless.

      - Darth Mountain will destroy!

        Loading editor
    • You summed it up pretty well. Season 5, ladies and gentlemen! But seriously, every TV show has it's bad season(s). This one was clearly GoT's (even though I was personally fine with it). I'm pretty sure Season 6 will pick up where this one lacked - including perhaps "revived characters".

        Loading editor
    • Reddyredcp wrote:
      You summed it up pretty well. Season 5, ladies and gentlemen! But seriously, every TV show has it's bad season(s). This one was clearly GoT's (even though I was personally fine with it). I'm pretty sure Season 6 will pick up where this one lacked - including perhaps "revived characters".

      Yup, pretty much. The problem I really think they ran into is they have caught up with the books and it's in a weird spot of trying to stay true to the source material and the fact that they are going to have to diverge from the books even more. This is why I think the show faltered this season. 

      The finale especilly felt like they were not ready to commit full heartedly to anything except Jon Snow's death, which they made sure we saw and had to watch for a decent amount of time before cutting to the credits, almost every other story felt like it ended a few minutes before it should have. Stannis' "Death", Sansa and Theon's "escape", Arya going blind, Dany being surrounded by the Dothraki, and even Cersi's story could of done with a bit more exposure. 

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      I'll be interested so long as Sam, Davos and Melisandre are there, mainly because I think Davos is going to kill her.

      He guess will try again killing her. Actually I am surprised that she's still here but you know: Bad characters have to survive!

        Loading editor
    • 99.244.159.165 wrote:
      If Jon's dead, I'm gonna cheer for the white walkers then! 


      Unlikely, but I feel the same.  May the wrath of the White Walkers have the whole of Westeros for dinner!  :p

        Loading editor
    • Hmmmm... as Tyrion said:  kings are dropping dead like flies.  It seems there are hardly any leaders/ kings left in Westeros.

      - Jon Snow:  Dead.  The only man in Westeros with vision enough to realise the danger of the White Walkers marching on Westeros.

      - Stannis:  Possibly dead.  Good commander and leader, but ambition forced him to make reckless decisions.

      - Tommen Baratheon:  Sweet, but useless as a king.

      - Cersei Lannister:  Great politician, but too busy with personal vendetta's to worry about Westeros, and yes, I'm sure she will most probably return to her 'evil' self in S6. She can also not officially rule, being a women in Westeros.

      - Jaime Lannister:  Lovable character and good fighter, but has not shown any leadership skills up to now.

      - Tyrion Lannister:  Great leader (especially his speech to the soldiers during the battle of Blackwater), but more appropriate in the role of an advisor, as is the case currently.  He will not return to Westeros without Daenerys.

      - Roose & Ramsey Bolton:  Good war commanders, but ruthless and cruel.  They rule by fear, and they're definitely hated by the rest of the North.

      - Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish:  Conniving and narcissistic, but have the forces of the Vale behind him, and possibly the alliance with the Bolton's - but with Sansa's escape, not sure if this will still be the case).  His ambition is his greatest enemy.

      - Doran Martell (Dorne):  Don't have any interest in invading the rest of Westeros. If the Lannisters do declare war against Dorne (after the poisoning of Myrcella), he will be too busy fighting them off.

        Loading editor
    • Badlie123 wrote:

      - Tommen Baratheon:  Sweet, but useless as a king.

      Like the prophecy said he will die too. Littlefinger on the throne. Oh hell no. I don't think that the Boltons will move in the south because if they do, they can't hold Winterfell or the North because all other houses still believe that the Starks belongs to Winterfell.

      Edit: And we have the Tyrells but I don't think they are fighting for the throne. They are more the background-players.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis' death. Yeah. If the thing about not showing the Battle of Ice was the budjet, how about not having so many dragon scenes? We had them like in every second episodes. I think only Daznak's Pit and 5x01 were necessary. But I don't think that would matter so much, anyway.

      And Brienne calling Renly rightful king? Huh? Is she stupid? Only people who have any right to the Throne are Stannis and Dany.

      Also, offscreen? I was hoping that in the books Stannis would die in a epic battle against the White Walkers, but apparently he dies in the Battle of Ice. But offscreen???

      Bad pussy line, wtf. What is this. D&D tried to make Sand Snakes & Ellaria the main characters of the dornish arc, while the main people should've been Doran, Trystane and Arianne.

      And where was Roose?

        Loading editor
    • Can’t wait to see how significant the roles of the following characters will be in S6:  Arya-, Bran-, & Rickon Stark, Gendry (bastard son of Robert Baratheon), Sam, Brotherhood Without Banners, the Sparrows, Davo and Brienne.  And where is Ghost??

      Sansa just irritates me.  She’s continuously playing the victim, and I hope she will stop being so naïve.  She seriously needs therapy.  ;)

        Loading editor
    • I think Davos kills Mel after she resurrects Jon or something like that. Brienne needs to die.

        Loading editor
    • Cyanide3 wrote:
      Badlie123 wrote:

      - Tommen Baratheon:  Sweet, but useless as a king.

      Like the prophecy said he will die too. Littlefinger on the throne. Oh hell no. I don't think that the Boltons will move in the south because if they do, they can't hold Winterfell or the North because all other houses still believe that the Starks belongs to Winterfell.

      Edit: And we have the Tyrells but I don't think they are fighting for the throne. They are more the background-players.


      Yes, and what happened to Margaery Tyrell?  Is she still stuck in the dungeon or sentenced to death?

        Loading editor
    • Badlie123 wrote:
      Yes, and what happened to Margaery Tyrell?  Is she still stuck in the dungeon or sentenced to death?

      I think she will stuck in the dungeon and what could she do? Confess like Cersei? Confess what? That her brother likes men - that's an open secret to everyone and it isn't a "shame" so the high sparrow has no bargaining chip for her or Loras and he will probably keep her in the dungeon.

      In general as a queen and ruler of the throne I don't think she fits because she hasn't the leaderspirit which Daenerys has. She does her job good while she was together with Jeoffrey (helping the poor people for example) and she had an open heart for everyone.

        Loading editor
    • -Gladiatus- wrote:
      Brienne needs to die.

      Oh no!  I adore Brienne.  But, yes, she will most probably be killed.  They seem to off all characters who have an inch of honour or ethics.  (I think the only person who will be left standing is Bronn.  Only character with a sense of humour.  LOL.)

        Loading editor
    • Cyanide3 wrote:
      Badlie123 wrote:
      Yes, and what happened to Margaery Tyrell?  Is she still stuck in the dungeon or sentenced to death?

      In general as a queen and ruler of the throne I don't think she fits because she hasn't the leaderspirit which Daenerys has. She does her job good while she was together with Jeoffrey (helping the poor people for example) and she had an open heart for everyone.


      I agree.  She doesn’t have the leadership skills, but she was a “Queen of the people”.  She was quite good with court politics and influencing the king.  I think we now have a massive gap between the royalty and the common men.  Do you think we may see open revolt from the people – being ruled by the religious fanatics and facing hunger (I’m sure the Tyrell’s will no longer assist them with food)?   

        Loading editor

    • Another question:  When and How will The Iron Bank start collecting their debts?  Stannis’ debt is a write off, and the crown is so deeply in debt, they can’t possibly pay it off (seeing the Lannisters have no more gold and the Tyrell’s will definitely not continue to assist).

        Loading editor
    • Badlie123 wrote:

      I agree.  She doesn’t have the leadership skills, but she was a “Queen of the people”.  She was quite good with court politics and influencing the king.  I think we now have a massive gap between the royalty and the common men.  Do you think we may see open revolt from the people – being ruled by the religious fanatics and facing hunger (I’m sure the Tyrell’s will no longer assist them with food)? 

      That's a really serious question and I think it will come to this revolution from the church and the people because there is so much frustration in the streets of Kings Landing. When we're making a comparison to our past situation in the middleage the church had much more power than the church in Game of Thrones because the nobility respected Gods choices and was blind so here we have a completely new situation.

      It depends on what Cersei now wants to do. If she's going to turn good, then I see hope for this city. If not they will probably storm the castle or Cersei will go for the high sparrow and kill him because he's the one who is leading the "army" of the common people and when he dies I think the common people will lose their spirit again and everything will back to normal. They have no other leader like the high sparrow.

        Loading editor
    • I just realised something: the show has pretty much caught up to the books, and in certain places gone ahead o_O

      Even if Winds of Winter comes out this year, it'll take GRRM another 3 years MINIMUM to finish Dream of Spring, so... at this rate, the show will conclude the story before the books do, unless they postpone it until Dream of Spring comes out.

        Loading editor
    • Why are people so sure Stannis is dead? We didn't see it happen...

        Loading editor
    • Pretty much, although there's still some book material left to be adapted: Sam's Old Town story from AFfC, The Kingsmoot (or whatever the hell they're doing with the Greyjoys) the aftermath of Cersei's walk and Kevan putting the realm back together. Arya coping with her blindness... they're casting Septon Merribald and Randyll Tarly, so it's possible that some of Brienne's Riverlands wanderings will make it into the show. Bran's interactions with Bloodraven, Jaime possibly doing something that will lead him back into contact with Brienne... I'm not sure if I've missed anything out.

        Loading editor
    • Buffyverse69 wrote:
      Why are people so sure Stannis is dead? We didn't see it happen...


      Because the official website lists him as deceased.

        Loading editor
    • The White Winged Fury wrote:
      Pretty much, although there's still some book material left to be adapted: Sam's Old Town story from AFfC, The Kingsmoot (or whatever the hell they're doing with the Greyjoys) the aftermath of Cersei's walk and Kevan putting the realm back together. Arya coping with her blindness... they're casting Septon Merribald and Randyll Tarly, so it's possible that some of Brienne's Riverlands wanderings will make it into the show. Bran's interactions with Bloodraven, Jaime possibly doing something that will lead him back into contact with Brienne... I'm not sure if I've missed anything out.

      That would make a season, maybe 2 if they REALLY stretch it out. Maybe they'll put the main story on hiatus and adapt Robert's Rebellion into a season or 2, or adapt Dunk and Egg.

        Loading editor
    • The White Winged Fury wrote:
      Buffyverse69 wrote:
      Why are people so sure Stannis is dead? We didn't see it happen...

      Because the official website lists him as deceased.

      Right...

        Loading editor
    • Buffyverse69 wrote:
      The White Winged Fury wrote:
      Buffyverse69 wrote:
      Why are people so sure Stannis is dead? We didn't see it happen...

      Because the official website lists him as deceased.
      Right...

      The confusion comes from the fact that the offical site has not always, oddly enough, been a great source in terms of out of univerese comfirmations. Becasue of how it's written, it doesn't always make things clear in terms of real life comfirmation.

      Add to the fact that when ever the guestion is brought up or addressed by one of the director's or writer's, they don't seem to keen on giving and out right "yes, he's dead" like they did wth Jon Snow. They may be wanting to give themseleves some wiggle room with the character

        Loading editor
    • I admit I think the HBO Viewer's Guide might be lying as a cheap thrill.

      But it would be...unbecoming, of us to accuse that without further reason. So we'll let them play their games.

        Loading editor
    • I'm still not over the look on Davos' face when he learns Stannis is dead. Goddamn... that was a haunting look.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      I'm not mad they killed Stannis, I wasn't expecting him to win, but... I hate that the battle they'd been building up all season happened off-screen, and that Stannis was just dead a few minutes in. It felt rushed and anti-climactic as hell.

      Honestly, I wasn't expecting any battle. It couldn't be done. No budget and no time. They wouldnt have time for the other scenes. I'm glad the episode covered so much shit, with one shocking death after another. I loved it.

      9.8/10 

      Great plot, a lot of sick events, not to mention that Jon's death was really well done. Out of nowhere and shocking, just like the Red Wedding and Ned (I don't read the books and I didn't see both events coming.)


        Loading editor
    • Thinking on it with a day to pass, my thoughts on adapting Season 5 in general are updated in that it was a huge mistake to try to adapt two novels as a single TV season - IF they chose that, if production issues forced their hand I sympathize.

      As I've said before, Cersei or Tyrion were condensed but not bad.

      The two "bad" things were:

      • 1 - Condensing so much of the Stannis/Bolton storyarc.
      • 2 - Stunningly bad condensations to a barely present Dorne subplot. Time that would have been better spent revisiting old plotlines at Riverrun or something.

      Now the Dorne stuff can probably be "fixed" by just making them better next season. If they really killed Myrcella I'm baffled - I'm shocked at how illogical it seemed, with Trystane on the boat and all - but I hold off judgement on that specific element because we don't know if Myrcella dies in the next novel.

      But lines like "You want a good girl but you need the bad pussy!" -- okay maybe Tyene was being over the top on purpose, but still: all major reviewers I've seen thought the Dorne stuff, specifically the Sand Snakes was rushed (the idea of sending Jaime to Dorne was good, Doran was great, but those moments were few). You can just tell Dorne was the bottom of the barrel in time and resources.

      But the one that angers me more is just how much of Stannis's storyline got cut out.

      Heck, I'd even accept cutting out ALL Northern lords.

      The thing I think didn't work was, for a storyline already suffering for time reasons...pushing up book six material. Killing Shireen isn't a problem in and of itself - it's the context of "why would he resort to this now?" Even against the White Walkers you can see how a man in desperation would resort to anything.

      But I think they wanted to kill Shireen now just for a shocking season finale, even though as a result it means half of Stannis's army abandon him, and the resulting battle..."went beyond tragic, and into farce". People were laughing at how outnumbered he was. It makes the Boltons look invincible.

      It rushed Stannis's already rushed storyline beyond book five material...and into book six? WHY? Look maybe stuff is happening next episode we don't know about.

      But - as TV Tropes' writeup pointed out - it made the whole Battle of Ice anti-climactic to an absurd degree.

      I was really feeling down about this ending, the Stannis stuff so badly rushed. Dorne rushing to kill Myrcella did no favors either.

      I mean, questioning whether to even stay with the show after this. But as I insist to all: next season won't be as condensed, and they're even going to actually do the Iron Islands/Riverlands subplots that got omitted before.

      I just realized the show has had bad storylines before and I nearly left it over things then: The Robb/Talisa/Catelyn abomination in Season 2 was disheartening, but they've recovered from that before.

      Heck, if Benioff and Weiss just once say "our hands were tied, we wanted two seasons for all of this, but the actor contract negotiations made that impossible"....I will shrug all of this off, SHRUG it off, as an unfortunate problem beyond anyone's control.

      I was annoyed at changing circumstances of For the Watch from Ramsay Bolton to just "Wildlings", but that's really more the Bolton storyline's fault.

      I used to think it was random, but thinking on it, I think the TV show reason was that they heard Stannis was defeated, meaning the Boltons were in full control of the North, meaning that Stannis wouldn't defend Jon and also that the Boltons would be turning their attention against the last known surviving male of the Stark bloodline sooner or later. And that maybe they didn't have someone outright state that because it would have spoiled the surprise -- i.e. if we get Thorne say next season "He was already letting wildlings in, and the Boltons would have attacked us with him in charge."

      Overall, though, it's the extreme truncation of Stannis and Dorne which were deeply upsetting.

        Loading editor
    • 179.183.166.166 wrote:
      Well I hope Melisandre resurrect Jon ._." 



      I agree only hope for this show.

      There has to be some use of Melisandre otherwise the show is going to go belly up after this.


      Wasn't Stannis supposed to have taken large parts of the North?


      And the Boltons through what "magic" getting all that manpower???


      I couldn't care less about Myrcella dying though just another Lannister among too many anyway.

        Loading editor
    • OH and lastly to my reaction.



      If I said in words what I think of this season finale then I will likely be banned from wiki alltogether

        Loading editor
    • Season 5 feels like this comes from a fanfic.

        Loading editor
    • Warmachine375 wrote: Season 5 feels like this comes from a fanfic.

      Yeah, they changed so much, its now a completely different story.
      
        Loading editor
    • I don't think Jon is dead but the only decent scene in this season finale was Theon saving Sansa and escaping with her.

      Other than that, it was a very disappointing episode.

        Loading editor
    • I felt a bit meh on most of the fifth season, because:

      • fewer brilliant character moments,
      • plot lines that seemed to go nowhere (Brienne, Sandsnakes),
      • cheap deus ex machina/coincidence moments that seemed just too deliberate and constructed to be realistic (Ghost showing up out of nowhere to save Sam and Gilly, Sandsnakes and Jaime/Bron showing up at precisely the same time, Tyrion and Jorah going to Valyria for no reason other than Jorah having to contract Greyscale because the script needed him to, Podrick just happening to spot Stannis' army at the right moment, Brienne finding him so easily and by himself in the aftermath of the battle, etc... )
      • I agree with previous posters that more time would have done some story lines good. Nearly all of them could have used some more elaboration, more time to get invested in them .

      But I really liked the finale. Cersei's walk of atonement may have been a bit tamer than in the book, and I missed some final word on Margaery and her brother. But Stannis' end was very fitting, the final conversation between the 2 1/2 men (Jorah, Tyrion, and Daario) was brilliant, and I loved seeing Theon and Sansa make a run for it together (though Theon's change of heart came a bit sudden).

      The best moments for me were Danaerys with the dragon who, after rescuing her so heroically, is now just lazily disobeying her again, Pycelle's face as he sees Cersei humiliated, and Melissandre's face when she realizes that she'd been putting her money on the wrong horse this whole time. Brilliant acting in this episode, lots of surprises (even for someone who has read the book), many deaths, but well-done ones, and some great cliffhangers for the next season.

      I don't know if Jon is dead. It certainly looks like it. I really really really want him to survive, though (or be resurrected). It seems there is so much he still needs to see and do. His death made sense in the context of the story, but if anything, it's even more shocking than Ned's death way back in season 1.

        Loading editor
    • Mira Laime wrote:
      But Stannis' end was very fitting, the final conversation between the 2 1/2 men (Jorah, Tyrion, and Daario) was brilliant (...)


      What Has Been Seen Cannot Be Unseen P:

        Loading editor
    • Uhm, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where that came from :p

        Loading editor
    • Jon Snow is dead, but Jon Targaryen is not.

        Loading editor
    • Crap-zapper wrote:
      Jon Snow is dead, but Jon Targaryen is not.

      That line of thought might have worked if they had just simplyed stated "Jon Snow is Dead", but with the actor himself saying he won't return next season,the idea of them tricking the audience by using a different name falls apart.

        Loading editor
    • Personally I feel this season finale fell flat on its face. This season the show was so invested in exploiting the shock value that the truly shocking turning points got lost in the process, so the episode felt totally anticlimatic. I enjoy both the books and the series on two different levels because they're two different media, and I welcome changes when they're functional to the tv narrative, but this time they really messed up.

      We've had an especially violent, gruesome, deadly season, so the deaths of Stannis and Jon (?) were just another in a long line of gruesome deaths. Just another ordinary day in Westeros.

      We've had so much gratuitous violence against women that Cersei's walk of penance turned into yet another mistreated woman – what else is new. I was especially looking forward to that scene both to see a character I love to hate getting her comeuppance and to secretly feel for her and see her as a human being behind the monster: I just saw another in a long line of cruelly and pointlessly humiliated women.

      While speeding up all the Essos storylines was an effective choice, the changes made to Dorne and Winterfell were pointless and annoying. The whole Dorne storyline merely served to deliver a dead Myrcella: they could have kept the much more intriguing Dornish attempt to put her on the Iron Throne and take her injury scene a step further, instead of the boring rescue mission plot. Sansa contributed nothing to the Winterfell storyline and the storyline contributed nothing for the character's growth: what's the point? After that strong independent woman™ build up in S4 what we got was a whole fifth season as the victim, and her final "big moment" was unlocking a door with a corkscrew. What a win.

      So yeah, the show got me so used to shock I wasn't shocked at anything, it felt as if I shouldn't care about whatever horrible stuff is happening because what comes next is just more ordinary horror. It's not like the past seasons were all Disney fanfiction, but they spent their shock budget in a much more clever way so that the last episodes actually meant something and left me hanging from a cliff. For now, it's more of a "who's dying or getting beaten next" thing.

        Loading editor
    • Sophie Turner said it would be more shocking than the Red Wedding. I suppose she was used to the language often heard on the set? Sort of proves that to them, more shock and uninvested deaths equals something bigger than a betrayal leading up for three seasons. Quantity over quality right?

        Loading editor
    • You know, I probably wouldn't even be that mad at how much of the North storyline they cut...if they simply hadn't made Stannis's attack so anti-climactic in this episode. It seems like they were rushing to kill him off, instead of however he's actually going to burn Shireen much later in the novels. I think they burned Shireen in episode 9 for a climax....but that results in half the army leaving.

      Even putting aside "two books into one season?!"...they didn't need to do it this way, even within the timespan of the last 2-3 episodes of this season.

      Again: it went from "tragic" to "comical". Particularly, even if he's hopelessly outmatched...why cut away like that? They treated them like a speedbump instead of a somewhat serious challenge to the Boltons...and after a full season of buildup.

      It was just plain rushed.

      Myrcella dying in next novel might explain this, but once the shock wore off, I'm more annoyed at Tyene's ridiculous dialogue.

      So, specifically shifting Shireen's death to now and thus making the battle anti-climactic -- these are things that were within their power to change in this one season.

      The Dorne subplot...again, I insist that sending Jaime to Dorne wasn't a bad idea on paper, but who wrote such dialogue throughout the season? Who directed the shoddy camerawork? I'm tired now, this is a weak and sighed resignation to it but---

      again, I wasn't even depressed about the North storyline GOING INTO the episode -- cutting out so many other characters was annoying, but it was working on its own. Doing the battle like this was just bizarre. I really hope Q&A asks why they treated it so anti-climactic.

      The book fan in me is annoyed at changing Ellaria so much, but on the other hand they need TV mechanics to be different. The logic of doing this while Trystane is on ship is kind of odd though.

      They hyped Dorne so much going into Season 5 and yet it barely appeared at all. It wasn't even a single writing decision but just limited time to film it left it VERY rough around the edges.

      I'm also not amused by their "let's threaten Gilly with rape for dramatic tension" idea. Books didn't need that.

      I was utterly defeated after I saw this the first time but I'm trying to focus on the positives (storyline by storyline it wasn't all bad).

      And hey, why focus so much on Ramsay hurting Sansa....instead of the growing confrontation between Ramsay and Jon? Cut entirely.

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands wrote:

      I'm also not amused by their "let's threaten Gilly with rape for dramatic tension" idea. Books didn't need that.

      The whole thing wasn't needed. I mean okay Sam likes Gilly and he cares for her but everytime the story or scene switched to the Nightswatch we saw those two arguing if they can go or survive. Buh. They speaking around the bush and I was happy to see that they now leave the Black Castle. Sam is a great character but annoying with the whole "I have to protect Gilly thing" in Season 4 and 5.


      The Dragon Demands wrote: And hey, why focus so much on Ramsay hurting Sansa....instead of the growing confrontation between Ramsay and Jon? Cut entirely.

      Because it's much more entertaining than the Ramsay/Jon discussion. Sansa is an audience-child for almost everyone and to see her while she get's hunted by a psychopath is much more efficient.

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands wrote:
      The Dorne subplot...again, I insist that sending Jaime to Dorne wasn't a bad idea on paper, but who wrote such dialogue throughout the season? Who directed the shoddy camerawork? I'm tired now, this is a weak and sighed resignation to it but---

      again, I wasn't even depressed about the North storyline GOING INTO the episode -- cutting out so many other characters was annoying, but it was working on its own. Doing the battle like this was just bizarre. I really hope Q&A asks why they treated it so anti-climactic.

      The book fan in me is annoyed at changing Ellaria so much, but on the other hand they need TV mechanics to be different. The logic of doing this while Trystane is on ship is kind of odd though.

      They hyped Dorne so much going into Season 5 and yet it barely appeared at all. It wasn't even a single writing decision but just limited time to film it left it VERY rough around the edges.

      I too think the Dornish plot had potential: the basic plot mechanics were great —Sending Jaime and Bronn, Ellaria & the Sand Snakes, Doran and Areo stopping them and duplicitously hosting Jaime and letting him take Myrcella and Trystane back. But the execution was terrible. It needed more time for Jaime's character development, more time to introduce the characters of the Sand Snakes individually (I still think they should've adapted "The Captain of the Guards" faithfully, with each of the Sand Snakes asking for slightly different forms of revenge —except all at once; some adaptation was necessary), and plainly more preparation for the production —the coreography, the setting.

      Still, I was willing to forgive and forget the shoddy elements of the Dorne storyline if episode 10 climaxed with Doran doing his Fire and Blood & Viper in the Grass speeches mixed into one. Instead, it was cut entirely. I'm flabbergasted. What is the POINT of the Dornish storyline without that? Aren't AFFC & ADWD's Dornish storline but a setup for the Dornish alliance to the Targaryens? I was just stunned when that didn't happen. I mean, it still HAS to happen, so I guess it was pushed back to Season 6 and I'm sure it will be great in Season 6, but Season 5 suffered because of it.

        Loading editor
    • Winterfell: They didn't show us the battle itself, only the prelude and aftermath. I hope Brienne was about to kill Stannis but Podrick saw Sansa and Theon abouf to jumb and rushed th save him with Brienne so Stanns, Sansa and Theon are not dead.

      KL: boring

      Braavos: Arya kills Ser Meryn although Syrio is alive. Jaqen Hgar commites suicide

      Meereen and Dothraki Sea: Who also spotted that Varys and Littlefinger appear in most unexpected places?

      Dorne: Maggy foreshadowed that Myrcella will wead a golden crown. She isn't yet a quen so isn't dead.

      Wall: JON SNOW ISNT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Loading editor
    • I think the biggest problem in the Dorne arc was that they tried to make Ellaria and the Sand Snakes the main characters of that arc, while we should've focused more on Doran, Trystane, Myrcella and even Areo Hotah.

      Also, the dialogue from the finale, the fighting scene from 5x06 and the acting from 5x04.

        Loading editor
    • That's basically ever scene the Sand Snakes were in.

        Loading editor
    • That's basically ever scene the Sand Snakes were in.

        Loading editor
    • That's basically ever scene the Sand Snakes were in.

        Loading editor
    • That's basically ever scene the Sand Snakes were in.

        Loading editor
    • I wish Tyene would've said "bad girl" instead of "bad pussy". Still goofy, but at least it wouldn't be so... cringe-ey :P

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13
      Draevan13 removed this reply because:
      Triplicate post.
      12:40, June 17, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Draevan13
      Draevan13 removed this reply because:
      Triplicate post.
      12:39, June 17, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Draevan13
      Draevan13 removed this reply because:
      Triplicate post.
      12:39, June 17, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Draevan13
      Draevan13 removed this reply because:
      Don't know why it posted my comment 5 times >_
      16:46, June 17, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • I knew Jon was stabbed (SPOILER!!


      HE ISN'T DEAD)

      But Stannis? Only the Tarygeons (whatever you call them) can save westeros now.

        Loading editor
    • RinkakuKagune wrote:
      I knew Jon was stabbed (SPOILER!! DEAD)

      But Stannis? Only the Tarygeons (whatever you call them) can save westeros now.

      No, he's dead. It's whether he'll be resurrected that's in question :P

      Not really a spoiler, even book readers don't know if he'll come back or not.

        Loading editor
    • Has Kit Harrington ever said he won't be back on the show, or just next season?... I'd imagine that they're switching Jon's story with Bran's for Season 6, then a possible reunion in Season 7? For white walker appearances, they could attack the children of the forest, something along those lines (since every season has a ww appearance).

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      RinkakuKagune wrote:
      I knew Jon was stabbed (SPOILER!! DEAD)

      But Stannis? Only the Tarygeons (whatever you call them) can save westeros now.

      No, he's dead. It's whether he'll be resurrected that's in question :P

      Not really a spoiler, even book readers don't know if he'll come back or not.

      When was that stated?

        Loading editor
    • RinkakuKagune wrote:
      Draevan13 wrote:
      RinkakuKagune wrote:
      I knew Jon was stabbed (SPOILER!! DEAD)

      But Stannis? Only the Tarygeons (whatever you call them) can save westeros now.

      No, he's dead. It's whether he'll be resurrected that's in question :P

      Not really a spoiler, even book readers don't know if he'll come back or not.

      When was that stated?

      When was what stated? 

        Loading editor
    • Jon Snow will be back, he'll probably be resurrected by Melasandre and will make an appearance in Season 7.

        Loading editor
    • I actually liked that the battle happened off screen amd it was anticlimactic, it is sort of symbolic to Stannis and his downfall. He expected to win and take Winterfell and we expected big battle. neither have happened.

        Loading editor
    • jone snow is d "song"    "of"     lyanna "ice"      &      rheagar "fire"

      so he can't die..............

        Loading editor
    • Warmachine375 wrote:
      Season 5 feels like this comes from a fanfic.

      I have read fanfics with way more thought out endings than this season was.

        Loading editor
    • Fenrisulven13 wrote:
      Warmachine375 wrote:
      Season 5 feels like this comes from a fanfic.
      I have read fanfics with way more thought out endings than this season was.

      It's because the producers crammed 2 books worth of material into 1 season... there's wasn't time to flesh anything out, it all feels awkward and rushed. Especially the finale.

        Loading editor
    • Reddyredcp wrote: Has Kit Harrington ever said he won't be back on the show, or just next season?... I'd imagine that they're switching Jon's story with Bran's for Season 6, then a possible reunion in Season 7? For white walker appearances, they could attack the children of the forest, something along those lines (since every season has a ww appearance).

      The white walkers won't attack the children, because I think they are their leaders...:-p

        Loading editor
    • Croquedead wrote:

      The white walkers won't attack the children, because I think they are their leaders...:-p

      It's verry hilarious about the whole Craster's-children-are-going-to-be-White-Walkers because they all are probably be brothers and a big family :'P

        Loading editor
    • Croquedead wrote:

      Reddyredcp wrote: Has Kit Harrington ever said he won't be back on the show, or just next season?... I'd imagine that they're switching Jon's story with Bran's for Season 6, then a possible reunion in Season 7? For white walker appearances, they could attack the children of the forest, something along those lines (since every season has a ww appearance).

      The white walkers won't attack the children, because I think they are their leaders...:-p

      Considering how many Children the White Walkers slaughtered in the War for the Dawn, if that's true, the Children are terrible leaders XD

      "Damnit Steve, you were supposed to tell them to kill FOR us, not KILL US!"

      "Oops."

        Loading editor
    • Here's somthing that really bothered me about the season. Stannis Burning Shireen, and here's why. It can possiably happen the way it does in the TV series as it does in the book.

      If Stannis does indeed die at the Battle of Winterfell, then he has absolutly no hand in the sacrifice of his daughter, as Shireen, Selyse and Melisandre are all still at Castle Black and the show pretty much just threw his character under the bus.

      On the other hand, if he does in future books order his daughter to be burned as a sacrifice, then he would have to get back to his family at some point later in the books, meaning coming what ever, he should surive the battle of Winterfell.

      What they do in the show pretty much was not nessecary, making his character far more sinister than he has yet to ever be shown as in either the book's or TV series.

        Loading editor
    • As I've said before, and will likely say again: the confusing plot for season 5 comes from condensing 2 books into 1 season. Previously they either made 1 book=1 season or, in the case of Storm of Swords, into 2 seasons (seasons 3 and 4). This time, they crammed book 4 and 5 (book 5 alone has 2 seasons worth of material!) into one season.

      That's why this season felt so awkward and rushed near the end.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      As I've said before, and will likely say again: the confusing plot for season 5 comes from condensing 2 books into 1 season. Previously they either made 1 book=1 season or, in the case of Storm of Swords, into 2 seasons (seasons 3 and 4). This time, they crammed book 4 and 5 (book 5 alone has 2 seasons worth of material!) into one season.

      That's why this season felt so awkward and rushed near the end.

      I'm not disagreeing with you on that point, but it's not truly relative to what I was saying. The plot point of Burning Shireen is not even in either of the books that were the geneneral source for this season. This happens at some later point, and they did not need it in this season at all, neither is the battle of Winterfell.

      My point is not about the season feeling awkward and rushed, it's about an injustice done to a character. 

        Loading editor
    • Burning Shireen was related to that - the two things condensed the most were Stannis/The North and Dorne.

      They condensed Stannis so much that they wanted to "wrap it up", by going even further ahead to when Shireen will be burned in the next novel, apparently as part of the White Walker war or something.

      Semantics; overall point remains that "you shouldn't have attempted to condense Stannis's storyline this drastically, it made it anti-climactic and at times kind of forced."

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands wrote:
      Burning Shireen was related to that - the two things condensed the most were Stannis/The North and Dorne.

      They condensed Stannis so much that they wanted to "wrap it up", by going even further ahead to when Shireen will be burned in the next novel, apparently as part of the White Walker war or something.

      Semantics; overall point remains that "you shouldn't have attempted to condense Stannis's storyline this drastically, it made it anti-climactic and at times kind of forced."

      Yeah, I suppose. Although my issue is more with the treatment of the character, rather that the affect on story line flow.

        Loading editor
    • Oh I don't just mean "story flow" in terms of pacing, I think condensing this made him look bad (sacrificing your child against an apocalyptic invasion of undead ice-demons, in the face of it, might have been seen as at least a little more sympathetic, but doing it this way was really shifting things -- and again, why? If they knew they had to condense this much, why not another season?

      Just be brave and don't condense it, knowing you'll probably get a pickup for another season after Season 6.

        Loading editor
    • How many times do D&D have to say in interviews that this is how they want to tell their story so that you believe them? In the Stannis section for Mother's Mercy, written by you, there's that speculation about contracts and fearing the show wouldn't be renewed, which just ISN'T what's been told to us. When we've been told how things are clearly, that "speculation" becomes simply "lies." HBO are more than happy to keep going; D&D are the ones who, because of how they want to tell their story, wrote it like this and want now 7 seasons (yes, previously the usual number was 8.) It's high time you accept their hands are not being forced. You may disagree with their approach, but at least accept that it IS their approach.

      Season 5 HAD to adapt all of ADWD and AFFC, and even add a number of climaxes. Adapting half of those books in season five would've been a slow, meandering season with no payoff, with no climax at all for pretty much ANY of the storylines. That'd been much worse than a season in which one or two storylines (Stannis and Dorne, definitely!) feel rushed.

        Loading editor
    • ArticXiongmao wrote:
      Adapting half of those books in season five would've been a slow, meandering season with no payoff, with no climax at all for pretty much ANY of the storylines. 

      On that I disagree. Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons each had enough going on for a season each, just like Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings did. 

      Dance with Dragons even have had to be split into two seasons like Storm of Swords was.

        Loading editor
    • Well, because Benioff and Weiss are never honest in interviews.

      Frankly I'm on the fence, though; maybe they did have enough hubris to think they could do two books in one season - that doesn't mean they were right, though.

      But it's a matter of "the lady doth protest too much" with the actor contract issue -- they kept saying "seven or eight seasons" then suddenly "we always said seven!" only to then, after the contract issue, be told "you can have as much time as you need".

      But yes, I think it is plausible they actually wanted to get two books into one TV season.

      "Slow meandering season with no payoff"? Use Hardhome. We can't have a Red Wedding style climax ALL THE TIME, and it necessitated drastic cuts and condensations to Sansa, Stannis, and Dorne, which are indefensible.

      And hey, why not use Young Griff's attack as the climax of Season 5, amirite?

        Loading editor
    • So because you think they're not honest, you can completely ignore the interviews in which they say those things? Becuase their statements don't mesh with your speculatory opinion articles (for the wiki?!!!). Okay.

        Loading editor
    • My main issue with the Battle of Winterfell isn't that Stannis lost and died, it's that it was built up all season then happened off screen. That's just bad storytelling.

      Imagine if that'd happened for the Blackwater, or with Oberyn's combat with Gregor Clegane! Hyped all season, then poof. Done, resolved off screen. I literally shouted "SERIOUSLY?" when I saw that.

      Hopefully with all the contracts settled they can make the next season better.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      My main issue with the Battle of Winterfell isn't that Stannis lost and died, it's that it was built up all season then happened off screen. That's just bad storytelling.

      Imagine if that'd happened for the Blackwater, or with Oberyn's combat with Gregor Clegane! Hyped all season, then poof. Done, resolved off screen. I literally shouted "SERIOUSLY?" when I saw that.

      Hopefully with all the contracts settled they can make the next season better.

      Exactly, they could of at the very least shown his death on screen. But instead we get an off-screen battle and cut away execution.

        Loading editor
    • 85.86.255.125 wrote:
      So because you think they're not honest, you can completely ignore the interviews in which they say those things? Becuase their statements don't mesh with your speculatory opinion articles (for the wiki?!!!). Okay.

      This guy was me, by the way. For some reason I wasn't logged in and I didn't notice.

        Loading editor
    • Well I used to reject that out of hand, and you've at least convinced me it's possible; now I'm not sure but don't want to automatically believe anything.

        Loading editor
    • I don't either entirely believe it's that simple myself, but when writing something for an encyclopedia, one cannot discount the authors' stated intentions and say things like "for whatever reason they tried to adapt both books into one", when they have already stated a reason in a few interviews. Multiple reasons, in fact. We may doubt it personally, but that's our personal business. An encyclopedia gathers information. It is not our job to psychoanalyze the creators' intentions, and let our conclusions supersede their own claims, which is what you have often done. Right now, that "for whatever reason" is an outright lie, I'm afraid.

        Loading editor
    • No. Or rather, we can't just be a mouthpiece for their statements, but post them while also noting "we're not sure if that's the actual reason or just what they're saying publicly"

        Loading editor
    • Yeah... that's not how encyclopedias work. And that's not even what you stated there. You just wrote "for whatever reason", as if they had not stated a reason. That's LYING to make your point and you know it. And then the page was blocked. Aha.

      It's funny how you take their statements for granted when you agree with them and you don't even MENTION them when you disagree. FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS. I'm not sure if you even realize how incredibly biased you are in your writings. This isn't your personal blog.

      In wikis, you present statements and facts, you DON'T DO ORIGINAL RESEARCH. That's basic, man. Basic stuff.

        Loading editor
    • ...while original research is bad, we can at least juxtapose variant quotes.

      Case in point, do we say "Benioff and Weiss said in Season 5 that they "always" intended to make only seven seasons" OR should we put after that sentence "But this contradicts their earlier statements from Season 1 or even Season 3, when they said they were going for eight"?

      There is a difference between "trying to make a slanted argument" and "maybe we shouldn't take their talking points at face value".

        Loading editor
    • You are right about that example, of course (if they did say "always" —If not, people change opinions and that's fine.) What about the example we are actually discussing yet you don't want to address? The interview in which they stated their reasons for adapting both books into one? How has that become "for whatever reason"? 

        Loading editor
    • I made a separate thread to continue this specific line of questioning; please continue there. Wait, which specific interview did they talk about condensing two books into one?

        Loading editor
    • Completely and utterly disappointed there was no Hot Pie this season. I was fixed on more Hodor as well and after learning he would not appear this season, I put my faith in Hot Pie... and that faith was not rewarded.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, Hot Pie was one of the handful of characters who debuted in Season 1, and then appeared at least once in ever subsequent season. Which reminds me I need to update the list.

        Loading editor
    • Hot Pie was the levity of the series as Joffrey was the cruelty.

        Loading editor
    • I was on the Ice and Fire forums today and say someone saying that if you look closely, you can see someone hit Brienne from behind just as she's about to kill Stannis. I re-watched the scene, slowed it down, paused every second... I don't see anyone behind her. Last shot of her shows the sword very low down and still only her in the shot, she's not struck from behind.

      But... looking at Stannis' last shot, his eyes appear to be following something moving behind Brienne. Could be nothing, could be some Boltons or some surviving Baratheon soldiers, who knows.

      Unlike Kit Harrington we haven't got an "I'm dead, I'm not coming back next season" from Stephen Dillane, nor have the producers flat out said "He's dead" like they did for Jon Snow. We'll see next season.

        Loading editor
    • Keeping him alive makes no sense. What can they do with his character that they haven't already done? He has no army and no family.

        Loading editor
    • Farerb wrote:
      Keeping him alive makes no sense. What can they do with his character that they haven't already done? He has no army and no family.

      Join the Night's Watch? Who knows how GRRM thinks.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Keeping him alive makes no sense. What can they do with his character that they haven't already done? He has no army and no family.
      Join the Night's Watch? Who knows how GRRM thinks.

      I've actully heard this theroy that Stannis wil become the 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's watch, which I think makes sense for his character in a way. He is almost singly midedly commited to his duty, and protecting the realm, joing the night's watch would be a good fit for his character.

        Loading editor
    • Whose the 999th?

        Loading editor
    • Ser Patrek wrote:
      Whose the 999th?

      Probably Allisar will take control over the Crows because there is no leader left. I don't think Davos will join the Nights Watch.

        Loading editor
    • Ser Patrek wrote:
      Whose the 999th?

      In the TV series Ser Allisar, in the books, could be a number of people, but the point is they aren't going to wait long before picking a new Lord Commander, proably right after they killed Jon they will go into a new voting session.

        Loading editor
    • Forget what I said before, Stannis is just looking Brienne up and down, not at something behind her (I watched it earlier today on my phone, watched it now on my desktop and it's clear he's just looking at her).

      I'm pretty sure he's dead.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:

      I'm pretty sure he's dead.

      Same here because Brienne spoke that she's gonna exicute him for the what he did to his brother and I don't think she will give Stannis a "new chance" or something or having a gentle heart. And actually I am glad that the Stannis rebellion is over because his story was getting to be protracted.

        Loading editor
    • "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen." - David Benioff

        Loading editor
    • "Everyone is dead!"

        Loading editor
    • In the series finale is over, most of the characters is dead. Only a few people survives the series, and think Sansa and Arya both will die in the end.

        Loading editor
    • I had speculations that Sansa and his younger sister, Arya, will die. We won't evade such bizarre happenings.

        Loading editor
    • Stannis had to die. He would never take a knee and we are getting close enough to the end the "winner (s)" and losers have to begin to emerge. "Do your Duty" was perfect and hit the mark. Here was a man so blinded by ambition and sense of duty he cut off Davos's fingers for being a smuggler and burnt his daughter alive to realize what he mistakenly thought was his destiny. I hope it hurt.

        Loading editor
    • And here I am, still chucking rage over Renly's death 

        Loading editor
    • Honestly I was really sad and Heart broke to hear the Jon Snow was officially declared Dead. But Life tends to be unfair. Heck isn't that's the main theme of Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire? To Let people know the reality of the World and how awful things unsuspectingly happens to people when we least expect it. Besides the book seems to kill him off too, so I think there's no point, whining over it.

        Loading editor
    • Well said he. A shame for the Queen Regent. Good for her! But, something not anticipated awaits after "the Mountain" was healed. A lesser hope for the Stark girls to survive. Now, fate is playing over them...

      6 is worth waiting. LOL

        Loading editor
    • Well that's how it goes. You see the reality here is, that Justice does actually play out in the end. The only problem here is that the outcome of it is not exectly what we had expected it to be. And unfortunately there are high costs to finally get it, case in point, Jon Snow is killed, Arya Stark is blind, Sansa is being thrown around left and right, and getting thrown back down to ground zero everytime she manages to get back up, Robb and Cat get betrayed and killed, God knows what's happening to Bran and Rickon and Stannis become more misguided, somewhat tyrannical, and negative,

      But on a lighter note, at least everyone's favourite Dwarf is still kicking and coming back stronger, Also Jamie seems to be more likeable then he was before. 

      You know even thought, everything is mostly disappointing, from a certain point, it has it's moment of satisfaction.

      It is really an Epic of Balance, a Song of Ice and Fire. We just need to look deep into the details and appriciate it for what it is. We may not like it at first, hate it even, but it still gives us entertainment and the ability to cope with life. Basicly it teaches us that life is cruel, but also fair, and even though we don't see it, it doesn't mean it is not there.

        Loading editor
    • I might be the only one here, but I have this theory that somehow Jon will be alive, but we won't see him at all during this season. I think Same going off to become a Meister carries big significance being as he will be studying medicine and things like that. I dont think Jon died, I think he was bleeding and somehow the show will show him being healed and he will find out who his true mother is. This show causes us to never know what will happen or what to expect, so it's hard to read into anything. 

        Loading editor
    • Plus with the show constantly saying how the Long Winter is coming, Jon is the only one other than Sam that has killed a White Walker and has one of the few Velyrian Steel swords. If they take his character out of the story, who the heck is going to fight off the White Walkers from taking over the entire 7 kingdoms? Unless that's just their way to end the series, is having the Long Winter setting in and White Walkers killling everyone. 

        Loading editor
    • I don't know man, if your a real believe in R+L=J and the Jon Snow Resurrection Theories, then Good luk with your belief. Me I'm going to put my money on Tyrion for Now.

        Loading editor
    • Draevan13 wrote:
      Fenrisulven13 wrote:

      Well I meant he comes back with some of Melisandre's mumbo jumbo.

      I know, I'm just saying Clegane isn't really "coming back", he's just a mindless zombie. As for Jon, in the unlikely event he comes back, will certainly not be staying in the Watch. 


      Agreed since Jon did swore to serve the Watch until death.


      And well, he died.


      True Clegane seems little more than a wight right now.

        Loading editor
    • Westeros is truly fucked

        Loading editor
    • Warmachine375 wrote:
      Westeros is truly fucked



      Come now Jon is back and was proclaimed the King in the North.


      And Daenerys is on her way to invade Westeros.


      Two queens vying for the Ironthrone while the Descendants of the first men under their king prepare to face the real threat.

        Loading editor
    • The Dragon Demands
      The Dragon Demands removed this reply because:
      .
      04:50, July 2, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.