What is a door but an entrance through a Wall?
A point was raised: last episode Littlefinger said "my friends in the North" have informed him that Sansa has escaped Winterfell: if he had informants in the North...they should have been able to tell him that Ramsay Bolton is a psychopath.
But I'm not commenting on that for now because this episode is the one that's going to directly address this drastic plot condensation.
I suppose they could say "he didn't have informants in House Bolton itself before" - but if that is the case, who else would know that Sansa escaped?
Apparently time is passing though, and it seems both the Karstarks and Umbers came to Winterfell with reasonable speed.
Apparently what they're going for is that Ramsay wasn't widely known in the North before, but Sansa's escape is big enough political news that it's spreading by now?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:46, May 17, 2016 (UTC)
Just finished The Door...what an excellent episode!! Loved every minute of it! How come the White Walkers want to kill them though, especially if she was the one who is their creator and created them to actually protect them? QueenBuffy 19:03, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
Well let's see you've got the Terminator, and the Matrix, and Frankenstein, and Adam the Triborg from Buffy, the Sentinels from X-Men, the Manhunters from DC Comics, then you've got your Blade Runner, and your etc. etc. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:15, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
- Ahh, created a monster. QueenBuffy 19:20, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
- I was shocked by the large number of cast deaths in that scene. We seem to be losing people in the show much faster, even though there are suggestions of an eighth season to tie loose ends more slowly.
- I expected the three-eyed raven to die, not Summer and Hodor within the very same scene. I actually expected Bran to lose Summer when betrayed by a hostile House while returning to the North. In the books which seem to have diverged completely, he is likely to lose Hodor beyond the Wall and his direwolf later on.
- 18:34, May 27, 2016 (UTC)
Ah...the Kingsmoot was serviceable but not the kick-ass scene I thought it would be. Still good...considering the fact that they made not one but TWO heavy condensations in it: 1 - merging Yara with Victarion, 2 - having Theon present when he isn't in the novels (it's strongly implied that they're going to have a "do over" in the next novel because Theon was absent - so it seems they combined both into one event).
More of a shrug than anger, really. Glass half full, I'm happy we have it in some form and that it didn't detract from anything - the exact opposite of how Dorne turned out.
Episode 6.2 was still just one big victory lap for people hungry to see the Greyjoy subplot DO something since Season 2.
So considering the MASSIVE condensations happening in the Kingsmoot scene, it was in fact not only functional, but relatively pleasant.
Wished it used a bit more book dialogue AND that Euron gave the speech about walking the demon-haunted ruins of Valyria and finding a magical dragonbinder horn. His dialogue this episode wasn't quite as cool as his first appearance.
But the season's not over yet.
Anyways, my biggest annoyance is actually the complete lack of any new ironborn heraldry.
I mean think about it: yeah fine they cut out introducing all of these other secondary ironborn Houses by name in dialogue, like the Harlaws, Drumms, Goodbrothers, etc. But it would have helped a lot to just put the heraldry in the background.
I mean that works really well: book readers will know it's a hint that there are these other Houses in the background, yet it doesn't really "need" to use up screentime with exposition or even speaking lines.
Think of how drastically the Kingsmoot would have been improved if they simply had a guy waving a Harlaw banner next to Yara, or some guy with a Drumm banner in the background. It's annoying just because it wouldn't have required much effort.
Come to think of it....we really haven't gotten much NEW live-action heraldry in quite some time. I wonder if Jim Stanes's involvement with the show ended and the main burst of heraldry designs is over.
....I think the only "new" live-action heraldry we actually got after Season 1 itself was at the Purple Wedding: Redwyne, Tarly, Lefford. On the other hand, I've seen production sketches of those in the video Stanes made, and Lefford was already in Season 1 at the tournament, it just wasn't shown prominently on-camera.
Oh wait, of course, we got a ton of new Dorne heraldry in the Season 4 premiere...never to be seen again. Also the Book of Brothers, also from the same episode.
So beyond the great big burst of heraldry in Season 1 (some of which appeared more prominently later but already "existed" in the TV show), and a smaller burst in the first two episodes of Season 4.....I don't think they make new heraldry anymore.
The only "new" one in Season 5 was House Stokeworth, and the only new one in Season 6 was House Reed....and I've realized that both of them are exact copies of the fanart used on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, not new grand efforts by professional artists like Stanes to make new heraldry (of course I rather do like the fanart on AWOIAF and it wouldn't have stayed up on there for years unless people really like it).
For that matter, neither Stokeworth nor Reed actualy appeared on banners or shields, but were work done by the costuming department.
- I thought it would be indoors as well, in a hall similar to Winterfell with some fake sea monster bones and the OG Ironborn's great stone throne but nah, didn't happen :S
Nah, Nagga's bones aren't "indoors" - they look like big stone pillars next to the beach until you realize they're fossilized bones of some huge animal.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:33, May 27, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, interesting. The books specify a hall with a throne but its a nice twist to have the place outdoors now seeing as:
- ironborn would be inclined to do such religious business as kingmaking near the sea
- the sea has apparently reclaimed the throne (although they could build the set and have them wade in "seawater").
Kinvara & Tyrion
Not sure I'm getting the connection between Kinvara & Tyrion: how did he know about her? Is she the highest-ranking priestess of the Lord of Light's sect? Why'd he call her in specifically? Quiscustodiet (talk) 20:38, May 24, 2016 (UTC)
- There is no mention of in series or books of the faith of R'hllor having a single, centralized leadership like the Most Devout and the High Septon in the Faith of the Seven.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:33, May 27, 2016 (UTC)
This might be something from the next novel. In the current novels, at least, Daenerys and her ruling council in Meereen try various things to maintain control, one is to ally with the local religious leaders at the Temple of the Graces - the high priestess Galazza Galare is one of the strongest voices for peace and respect for established order so she urges many to stop rebelling against Daenerys.
Kinvara in the show is loosely doing something similar. But is Kinvara's presence an invention of the show, or condensation with other events at Meereen?
Or other events in Volantis for that matter. In the books, the high priest of Volantis preaches that Daenerys is the Lord's Chosen, and slave leaders urge to Jorah and Tyrion as they pass through that if Daenerys arrives with an army a slave uprising will take over the city for her (given that there are five slaves to each free man in the city).
George R.R. Martin's initial pitch outline for the series also cryptically used an alternate name for the White Walkers, saying that their armies consisted of "undead wights and the Neverborn": White Walkers aren't an independent race, were "never born", but created by another race.
Most Memorable Death
I cried so much when I saw this episode, no one will have a sadder death than this... Seriously, Bran had made Hodor retarded for the rest of his life until he dies at The Door? He was the nicest guy ever and was real loyal, he deserves better. It's like his life was made just to lead to that one moment, his only purpose. It's just horrible! They didn't show him die but he most likely did? Somehow I want him to live but the ending would lose all of it's glory if he does. It's great but just so sad. Whenever I have the opportunity, I will hold the door open (or closed) for anyone who needs it.07:14, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
White Walker Objective
I believe that the existence of the Three-eyed Raven was the main reason for the long delay in the White Walker assault on the Wall. Of course, the harrying of the Free Folk tribes was necessary to provide fodder for their armies, but the "Three-eyed Raven", the most powerful greenseer in existence (now Brandon Stark), is the one being in this world who could counteract the White Walker threat against the realms of men.
The Night King demonstrated his greensight abilities when he encountered Bran in a vision and put his mark upon him. As such, the Night King, just like the old Three-eyed Raven, must have predicted that Bran would make his mistake. And the same cave was the location where the Night King was transformed from his former human-self, so he's been aware of its existence for at least 8000 years. The Wight attack on Bran's group in the Season 4 finale is another clue as to White Walker insights.
The mark on Bran's arm is not a "tracking device", so much that it only cancels out the magical wards protecting the cave's entry-points. And if the Night King shares the gift of greensight with Bran and the old Three-eyed Raven, he'll already know where to track Bran. It's just a matter of catching up with them.
As to the mark's effect on the Wall, we already saw reanimated Wights (Jafer Flowers and Othor) attack the Night's Watch after they were brought into Castle Black, which is south of the Wall. So if the structure does itself have magical wards like the cave, then it's already insufficient to prevent a trickle of of wights from pouring through. So, Bran's mark likely had a one-shot effect. --Fenrir51 (talk) 00:31, June 13, 2016 (UTC)