Talk:Military forces of the Seven Kingdoms

I don't think this should exist either, given that it doesn't actually exist.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:49, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Well, neither do the grumkins and snarks and we have a page on them :) It just struck me as interesting that Joffrey proposes the creation of this military force and it gives rise to a discussion of the Westerosi military. It also shows an interesting insight to Joffrey's character, that namely whilst cruel he's not a total idiot, and he can perceive the weaknesses of the way armies are raised and wars are fought in the the Seven Kingdoms (and the Wot5K shows up a lot of those weaknesses very well). For these reasons, there seems to be at least an argument for having a page on the idea and little to no argument for not having it.--Werthead (talk) 22:00, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Much like Nagga the Sea Dragon or Durran the Storm King, Grumkins and Snarks are proper nouns which have been mentioned in dialogue; they're a concept, like "vampire", and the legend exists in popular culture. A "Royal Army" is just something Joffrey proposed in conversation once (not even as a potential policy measure, as he was only a prince then and only talking to his mother): it isn't a "legend" or "mythical creature". It isn't the same rationale as went into "Grumkins and Snarks" or "Jonquil" etc. By the logic of "Royal Army" we'd be making a page for the "Golden Women" that Tyrion says Bronn would want.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:50, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, that scene points out just how much of an idiot Joffrey is; as Cersei points out, he's proposing to create a Royal Army by raising levies from the North...to act as his enforcers in the North: and they're such a feudalized society that they simply can't make that quick of a transition. If they raised soldiers from the North, they'd be more loyal to the Starks than to any nominal allegiance to the kings (even Cersei points this out). Taxation to raise an army would only make them revolt. Joffrey honestly thinks that every common soldier in the North will leap to do his bidding because "I'm the king", and the very concept of such "insubordination" is beyond his comprehension.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:53, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Joffrey says he would put the ten thousand men from the North 'towards' a Royal Army, not making up all of it. We could assume that he would also recruit from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms as well. What he then proposes doing with it is idiotic, but the idea itself is fairly sound. I think it is also a potential (if at that point unlikely, as he'd be expecting his father to live on for many more years) policy measure: he is the heir to the crown and he is being asked how he would handle a potential military situation. Furthermore, there is a 'Royal Fleet' so exploring the reasons why a 'Royal Army' does not exist and the fact that one has been proposed are also valid. Given that the term was spoken in dialogue and its definition outlined, it seems a ripe for an article. I trust I don't have to remind you that we have many, many pages about minor characters who have been named from pure supposition, so I don't see any consistentcy in thinking that is okay but an actual page about an idea actually mentioned in dialogue is not.--Werthead (talk) 17:07, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

The difference is that there IS a royal fleet, while the royal army is just a vague concept mentioned in a single line of dialogue. Grumkins are snarks and Nagga are part of the culture and legends, the same can be said about Durran and the rest of the mythical ancestors. Also, more than half the article is about the "other armies". In any event this article could be renamed "Military forces of the Seven Kingdoms". --Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:11, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Gladly done. That's a better idea.--Werthead (talk) 12:13, March 14, 2013 (UTC)