Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-4708902-20160726013945/@comment-25402783-20160907233421

Fenrir51 wrote: BigBadBruin343 wrote:

If Sansa had told Jon that they could have an army of over 10,000-20,000 men, and throw in the other Northen Houses that would have sided with the Starks, no trap Ramsay came up with could stop them. Though, Ramsay's plan was dumb in grand scheme of things (killing half his army when he knows that Lannisters will attack at some point). Sansa is just as resposible for the loss of life, as Jon is. Hell, maybe if she told him she'd be Queen in the North. What she did was stupid, and almost evil. Not even telling her "brother" that she conntacted Littlefinger, knowing Jon has a good chance of dying in battle. Yeah, great job Sansa.

Bran looked bored when running Winterfell. And it was clearly Luwin doing most of the heavy lifting. He was the one that told the Northen Lords how they'll help, Bran did jack sh*t.

And is Bran a leader? Has he led anybody into battle? Rallied troops? No, he hasn't. That's clearly one of the primary reasons that the Northern Lords chose Jon to be king. Clearly the line of succsesion doesn't matter to them. Sansa should be Queen in the North of they cared.

And as you stated, the Northmen don't mind ruling the south, seeing as Robb was king in the Riverlands as well. Would they mind a king that was raised by Ned Stark, and born of Lyanna Stark?

I doubt the Northern Lords will flock to Bran if Jon's parentage gets out."Let's ditch this guy that's fought the White Walkers, led men into battle, and is a natural leader, for this cripple that lost Winterfell, got the last of the Childern of the Forest killed, along with a powerful tree wizard, and Hordor and his wolf." Yeah, great job Bran. Hell he'll be the reason the White Walkers are able to passed the Wall next season (the mark on Bran's arm). Sorry, but Sansa not telling Jon and his co-commanders about the reinforcements coming will never exonerate Jon of mismanagement of the Battle of the Bastards! The responsibility for fiasco is squarely on Jon Snow's shoulders! If he was a real-world general, he would have been stripped of his command for his performance. Sansa may not have told Jon about Littlefinger's army, but she did ask him, in vain, to wait for reinforcements. She asked Jon to stay his hand until reinforcements came. So your assessment here is right off!

Bran looking bored in the opening episode in Season 2 is completely irrelevant in light of his actions several episodes later. Maester Luwin is an advisor. All rulers have them! Ned had employed his services for years. And even powers-behind-the-throne like Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion Lannister made use of advisors in their administrations. What's more, you're confusing a learning-curve with incompetence. Later, in the episode The Ghost of Harrenhal, Bran had fully-adjusted to his duties, and asserted his authority by authorising Rodrik Cassel to protect Torrhen's Square. By saying "uh, but Bran was bored as sh*t", you're using a minor negative to mask a major positive. What was the bad thing Bran did in Winterfell in that? Oh yeah, he talked back to some pompous vassal in the Season 2 premiere! Big whoop!

Jon was not chosen as king because he's a soldier. He was chosen BECAUSE THEY THINK HE'S EDDARD'S SON! How many times do you have to be told?! The North is not some militaristic democracy. They're a feudal monarchy! Bran's lack of military experience itself means jackshit because he IS the legal heir. They train their heirs for command! And because as a greenseer, with the power to see the past and future, that puts Bran in a class of his own in terms of leadership!

"And as you stated,the Northmen don't mind ruling the south, as Robb was king in the Riverlands as well."

Robb Stark, not the Northmen, ruled the Riverlands by the consent of the lords of the Riverlands, who were led by his grandfather, Hoster Tully. That is not the same thing as the North ruling them. They were allies in this war. Thank's for misrepresenting my statement, though!

"The cripple who lost Winterfell" had little more than 200 soldiers to protect a kingdom the size of Canada. Most of the North was lost to the Ironborn because Robb Stark released Theon Greyjoy back to his father,  even though Catelyn warned him it was an unwise move. By the time Theon returned to Pyke, Balon Greyjoy decided to launch a surprise invasion of the North. No one over there knew what was coming. And even if they did, there wasn't much they could do, because Robb had the overwhelming majority of the North's soldiers tied up fighting the Lannister's in the Riverlands.

As for the mark on Bran's arm, that is just baseless speculation! The Wall has already proven vulnerable to to being penetrated by wights back in the First Season. If the supposed magic protecting the Wall was meant to work the same as the magic in the cave of the Three-eyed Raven, then no wight should have been able to be resurrected inside Castle Black. So the Wall and its guardians are already f**ked! Also, the Wall is 300 miles long and 700 feet high. So why build a structure like that if magic in the Wall was the real protection?!

I never stated that Jon wasn't dumb during the Battle of the Bastards, he was. I just don't think he's the only one to blame. Sansa should have accepted Littlefinger's offer in the first place, giving her and Jon the forces they needed to rally the other houses to their side. And latter, when she does take Littlefinger up on his offer, she doesn't even bother telling Jon! And Jon wasn't wrong in wanting to attack soon, winter did come just a few days after they attacked. Jon was worried about winter storms arriving.

I never said that the only reason that the Northen Lords picked Jon over Sansa (a trueborn daughter) was because he's a warrior. It is one of the clear reasons they picked him though. Again, not the only one.

Bran isn't a leader, nor is Sansa, Jon is. That's what the Northern Lords need, hell, that's what the country needs. I find it hard to belive that all these lords, who pledged themselves to Jon, due IN PART to him being a leader and a warrior, would ditch him for this cripple who clearly is just as impulsive as Jon is. I mean, it is Bran's falt that Summer, Leaf (and the rest of the Childern), The Three Eyed Raven, and Hodor are all dead, it's becuase of Bran. If Bran hadn't plugged into the matrix, they would still be safe in that cave.

So if the Northern Lords had a say, they'd say don't bother control the more fertile Riverlands, let's just rule the North? The North has tried to set up an conquest of the Vale in the past, during the Rape of Three Sisters. They clearly don't mind ruling the south if they can.

From what I understand about the Wall's magic, is that a dead person can cross through, but an active wight cannot. I always thought that the dead brought through, and reanimate as wights after they've passed. In the books it makes it clear that WIGHTS can't pass through, but just dead things can.