User talk:The Dragon Demands

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Episodes leaked
Just so you know, the first few episodes have leaked. From the screeners, one assumes. They're all over the torrent sites. So we should probably prepare for a lot of people trying to add photos from it, or information from the episodes, which is based on illegitimate means of acquiring the episodes. Anyway, thought you should know. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 02:22, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

BY THE RAGING FURY OF THE *SKY DEMON*, THIS AFFRONT WILL NOT GO UNANSWERED.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:29, April 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear God in heaven...--Ser Patrek (talk) 08:15, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Heads up
HBO Canada aired the premiere last night by mistake - it was all over the fileshare sites before anyone could stop it... - 12:04, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

.....(Long, silent pause)....

....

Burn them all.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:24, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Locked page
Why is the season 6 premiere locked? Is it to prevent the spoilers? I wanted to like help out and make a couple tweaks while watching the opening and end credits cause some people may not be included. S hannon434 (talk) 00:42, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't edit live, that gets too messy. We unlock it the instant it finishes airing. Keep notes, that's what I do.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:01, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Valyrian in The Red Woman
I'm guessing you did not get the email I sent you last night, so let me repeat more-or-less what I said there: I promise you that in the Meereen scene in The Red Woman, both Tyrion and Varys are speaking High Valyrian to the beggar woman—OK, Tyrion is barely speaking any language at all, but he's clearly trying for HV: the first word is cearly supposed to be aōha, HV for "your," rather than ao, the Astapori equivalent (the Meereeneese equivalent seems to be osh, which is even further. I guess it is at least remotely possible that the second word he says is the Meereenese reflex of ipradagon "to eat," but I doubt it). Varys is likewise speaking HV: first sentence is something like zȳha Valyrio *qubēgrie issa (that word for "terrible" is new, so I'm not certain I have it right. We should find out for sure later today), whereas in Astapori it would be more like zya Valyre sa **quveghri(?), and in Meereenese... well, again, even farther.

So, why are they speaking in High Valyrian to what is evidently a very humble inhabitant of Meereen? Well, David J. Peterson has repeatedly said that he views the situation as diglossic. Basically, everyone in Meereen understands High Valyrian, even if only the nobles know how to speak it. He has explicitly compared this to the situation with Arabic today, where nearly everyone learns Classcal Arabic, at least for reading and understanding, but under normal circumstances speaks their native "dialect" (and assumes it's just a degenerate form of the language). Consequently, Dany, Tyrion, and Varys are all shown speaking only in High Valyrian, even when they understand Low Valyrian (Tyrion understands the bouncer in Volantis, for instance, and Dany understands everything Kraznys says), while most inhabitants of Slaver's Bay speak in Low Valyrian (the nobles occasionally use HV, I think, but usually they too use LV) but understand High Valyrian (e.g. Dany's speeches to the Unsullied, and the slaves of Meereen). The only characters shown not to understand HV so far (if I remember correctly) are the two shepherds victimized by Drogon... presumably there is less call for High Valyrian out in the hinterland.

The situation gets even more complex when you take into account the use of Astapori in Meereen, as I mentioned in my email to you, but we can save that for another day.

Anyway, I am really not sure exactly how the text in the episode description should be changed. I made some minor changes last night to indicate that they are in fact speaking High Valyrian, but I really wasn't sure what to do with the rest of your commentary on the sociolinguistic situation, and hoped you could figure out an appropriate way to rewrite that. Unfortunately even my minor edits have been undone since then. I mean, I guess I could go replace the text entirely with something like what I have written here, but it feels inappropriate to just wipe out all your work there, much of which is very good. I kind of hoped you'd help figure out what to keep and what to change.

Kirimvos and/or krimvo (also, whatever it is in Meereenese, but it sounds like *krimwa), Mad Latinist (talk) 17:14, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ack...I see now. Let me get to fixing this up...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:36, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Oh! I should also add that the Red Priest was also giving his sermon in HV (just as the one in Volantis did). --Mad Latinist (talk) 17:15, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

re: Discussion at bottom of articles
Hmmm... Not sure what you mean by "it shouldn't" - it looks to be working as intended. If you're asking whether the feature itself can be 'turned off', I just checked into that, and unfortunately it's not currently an option.
 *  XD1 @  21:25, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Blast. Well, thanks for your time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:35, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, man. you know I always help when I can...
 *  XD1 @  20:09, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:50, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Trystane Martell
Hello Dragon. I have thought to write in the article about Trystane that he's still alive in the novels but that his death in the TV show could imply that he will die in one of the upcoming novels, would that be allright? --Exodianecross (talk) 18:14, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

1 - We have an article on "Ellaria Sand's coup in Dorne"

2 - NO. Nothing about what just happened in the Season 6 premiere gives us a prediction about the novels. Frankly, it throws Myrcella's death into question.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:52, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Do you think it can be generalized to other characters as well (Selmy, Selyse, Shireen, Myrcella, Doran, Hotah, etc.) - that their death in the show does not necessarily mean they will die in the books too? 79.180.169.55 06:14, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

They stated that Shireen will die in the novels. Otherwise we don't really have "proof" or even solid clues that deaths in the TV series probably correspond to the books (except maybe for major characters such as Cersei or Jaime; they will be following the broadest strokes). Don't fixate on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:57, April 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * I have understood what you wanted to say Dragon. Now let's see how it will go on in Dorne. --Exodianecross (talk) 23:02, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

Animals and plants portal
Are you happy with it as it stands? - 08:53, April 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Great. Though are there any other more closeup images that can be used for Weirwood trees? current version is too zoomed-out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:27, April 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * Better? - 09:12, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, the episode guide on the main page hasn't been updated yet. - 09:13, April 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * New Euron portal image. Are animals and plants ready to go up? [[File:Euron-Portal.png]] 08:39, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Nav Bar and other edits
The "Oathbreaker" link on the nav bar under Season 6 doesn't lead to that episode page, it just leads to the deleted page with the mispelling. Also 6x04 is called "Book of a Stranger" so you can probably add that as well. Alcasinoroyale (talk) 20:18, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Also, I mentioned this on the talk page for the "Home" episode, but nobody ever changed it. You have the episode written by D&D, but HBO confirmed that Episode 2 is written by Dave Hill. So that's something else to add. Alcasinoroyale (talk) 00:38, April 29, 2016 (UTC)

Hello
Wow, I was going to take it personally that you were online and didn't reply; now I understand why it took you five hours to do that. I thought I was on a Davos chapter :3.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought I mentioned Asoiaf Wiki; you know the one that 2 people edit.. Aw yeah it's the topic of this conversation :).

First of all let me tell you that I'm really impressed; you surely deserve to be a bureaucrat admin. Did you have all this information about us in your mind, or did you just make a research? Because I assure you, you missed the conversation when I declined the offer to be an admin. They promoted me anyway, but I'm telling you, they were only bored of me asking them to delete or change the name of a page :P. I still pretend I'm not Admin though.

Surely you think this is irrelevant, but here is the thing.. some people make edits for the fun of it, not the title.

Now let's get back to our topic. I don't mind honesty in people. in fact I love it, so you don't have to apologize :3. The only thing that irritated me is that you read My conversations in My talk page.

All in all I agree with everything you said. I'm aware of most of it, I mean we are half started Wiki and we don't stand a chance against Weteros group. but hey who said we think of it as a competition? Again I personally like editing, then who cares if I'm editing at the top of the world, or some side pit at the bottom!

However, I've just noticed one more thing, I don't know if Weteros group are some self-centered group! but if linking asoiaf Wiki might anger them, then the last thing we'd like to do is cut off the coat tail you're riding. We definitely don't want to pull you down with us.

I'm not trying to insult you. But I get the feeling we're becoming good friends : ).

I'd like to thank you for bringing the Wret boy subject; I can see why you're angry about it.. We should probably file to Wikia asking for the demotion of LordSnow and Werthead; neither serves any purpose as staff there, and their presence as such does make the Wiki more unprofessional.

Lastly:

I know you think this was hard to read*, but I'm telling you again... I joined asoiaf Wiki aware of the situation I'm in; even Joe wasn't active back then. Maybe you'll find someone like me who thinks it's fun to edit, and not interested in a Selfie with the cast members.. See ya. May Kaiba (talk) 22:20, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Joe and I didn't put faith in anyone, since there was no one to begin with. We don't feel abandoned.. at least I don't
 * I'm actually deeply upset that you didn't get the chance to get in an international airplane flights paid for by Wikia itself, to attend convention panels in the US, and take Selfie with the cast members in place of the Wret boy. you deserve better.
 * Thank you very much for your offer, I will surely think about it in the future, however I don't think you want me on this Wiki; although it has been very nice and informative to tlk to you, and I've met some other cool and cooperative users such as Xanderen, let alone how active this Wiki is.. Yet I'm deeply sorry; I haven't watched a single episode of GoT.
 * I know, major loss for the Wiki, but maybe when I start the series... since you mentioned an Open Invitation ;)
 * I'll let Joe know about your offer, you can expect an answer any time soon.

two pics
I added two pictures... and I am proud of those two! I wish I had HBO (for those who aren't aware, I am a psychology student and I am basically broke lol) and could edit more freely. lol I hope you know, even if I am not around often, I LOVE this Wiki and I am here if you need anything, I will always stop in and check on things! I can always be a mediator lol. You guys are the best! 05:26, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

Absurdity the key word
What an awesome message, thank you!

I did finally get a chance to view the episode... the following day. :) I was very disappointed in the Sand Snakes as well. It is obvious that Dorne is in chaos and WILL fail/fall from Ellaria's choices. Why kill Trystane? Because he would have been next in line? Simply because he was a male? They could have molded him into being a new, strong leader. Who will take Dorne seriously now? I totally agree with what you're saying on the misogynistic part.

The episode was a little anti-climatic-- though it did update us on most of the characters. I wonder when Bran will come into play, as well as Bronn... where is he??

Seeing a new Khal made me miss Drogo and Jason Momoa... but that is probably just a woman thing. ;)

I thought it was a cool reveal about Melisandre... it shows just how powerful the woman actually is. That said, I really hope she can bring Jon back in some way... his revenge would be so epic! I do hope we get to see Ghost tearing shit up too! haha

I'm sure you read about how the final seasons of GoT will be much shorter. Not sure how I feel about that. :( Actually, I do know how I feel about that... it blows. I don't ever want the show to end... though I don't want it jumping the shark either.

As far as being broke... yeahhh, every college graduate in America is, sadly. I've just signed up to go back to school myself... to get my masters in Counseling. I'm either brave or stupid... I haven't decided yet. haha

18:15, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

Main Page Slider

 * Jon Snow: titled Jon lives or something like that
 * Euron Greyjoy
 * The Three-Eyed Raven
 * Ramsay Bolton: the Lord of Wintefell

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:12, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. Sorry I'm a little behind, end of semester projects combined with large amounts of new material, doing what I can.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:41, May 4, 2016 (UTC)


 * Its alright. Take your time.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:55, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Candidates for Deletion
Paul Andreson - seems to be a typo and/or unrelated to GoT. Can't find any Paul Andreson/Paul Anderson credited on the show.

Pauline Norton - same idea as above. Created by same user too.

Tulla Fyus - once again same idea, same author.

Iron Bank (talk) 05:18, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

The next two weeks are finals at school and I'm finishing term papers. This combined with the already heavy workload from Season 6 means my ability to get to work on here will be sporadic at best (frankly I'm already robbing papers of time by coming on here as much as I am).

I will get to further messages on my Talk page when I have a break between projects.

Thankfully this tight time situation will be over with by the halfway point of Season 6.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:53, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

Quick question - can I start adding the smaller shields and earlier versions of the shields as candiates for deletion? If so, should I just add the category "Candiates for deletion" and then you will review when you have the chance?

As you know, I am particularly focused on cleaning-up the shields on this site BUT I really do not want to step on anyone else's toes. Given that I would be recommending for work by other's to be deleted, I just wanted to double-check with you first before I started.

I would only add those files that were not used anywhere on the wiki. I wanted to start having the smaller versions deleted so that everyone to use the main-shield versions. It's easier to get everyone to use the main-shields if the other versions are no longer available to be used.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:10, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Hammerdown Protocol
Perhaps you can write a short tag or something explaining the Protocol.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:05, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

"Hammerdown Protocol is a scorched earth code-name wherein the U.S. military decides to cut it's losses and destroys, through carpet bombing, the U.S.'s own territories and/or cities that are deemed lost to enemy forces."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeeZy1oJmnk

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hammer-down%20protocol

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:09, May 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Let's begin it already and f*ck the do*che.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:12, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Changes to the Main Page Character Portal
I think "Reek" should be renamed "Theon". And with Roose dead, who do you think should be take the new spot? I'm more inclined towards Gilly or Jorah. Any ideas?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:18, May 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * I was pondering this as well - Gilly or Rickon? Depends on who gets prominently used next episode I guess.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:20, May 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think we should use Rickon. Gilly is always with Sam, and it doesn't look like they will appear much this season, probably only 3 or 4 episodes. I think we should swap Roose for Rickon, but put him in the first row where rest of the Starks are. Blackfish can be put somewhere in the lower rows. --Gladiatus (talk) 12:18, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Television footer
Hi, The Dragon Demands!

Would you be interested in having Game of Thrones added to our television footer program?

Best regards,

Raylan13 ( talk ) 20:59, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Sigils of Dornish houses
Hi, were you going to delete those sigils we discussed earlier? Just making sure you haven't forgotten :) (And who knows, maybe I'll make another attempt and do the job more properly in the future) --CrappyScrap (talk) 17:15, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Guess that today is
TODAY IS MY NAMEDAY!!!! I MADE IT TO 37, WHAT AN AMAZING FEAT!!!! hahaha 19:30, May 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * Great News. But I'm starting to reach the point I realize I'm running out of time. Freaks me out that I'm as old as my mom was when I was born.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:32, May 15, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think about that too.. that as I get older, it means so are my folks :( Scary thought. 15:40, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark, "Kingship" or "Lordship"
Hello Dragon. In "Book of the Stranger" we heard Sansa and Jon talking about the "Warden of the North", there was no mention about the "Kingdom in the North"! Shouldn't the Inbox of House Stark be changed accordingly? It seems that the "Kingdom of the North" with Robb as independent king is more or less buried. Therefore Bran and Rickon are just lords and Sansa and Arya are just ladies! --Exodianecross (talk) 16:33, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Right now they're just fighting for survival and don't have a firm plan. Even in the novels with Stannis in the North, they don't waste that much time debating "is Stannis going to be king over the North or not" once he just starts attacking the Boltons. They'll figure that out later, and so shall we.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:39, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Bastard letter
I think that article should be simplified following our time-honored format: an "in-universe" section for the show version and the "In the books" section for 'book-to-screen' comparison.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:40, May 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * I tried to do that. I'll move it around.


 * Actually this was my attempt at consolidation: rather than have a gigantic notes sub-article on "The Red Woman/Mutiny at Castle Black" or a huge sub-section on "Mutiny at Castle Black", or a giant notes section on "The Red Woman/Ellaria's Coup in Dorne"...


 * I realized it might be easier to segregate off the controversial mess onto its own dedicated topic articles: that is, "Bastard Letter" and "Ellaria's Coup in Dorne" will contain all of the comparisons/differences, so we 1 - aren't redundant 2- don't use up a lot of space for other stuff on the episode articles.


 * Oh I didn't think the current version was perfect, it was getting the ball rolling.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:48, May 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * If a "controversy" section proves to large we can have sub-articles (like with the infamous Jaime/Cersei scene) Titled "Article title/fan reaction" or "Episode title/Reaction to XXXXX scene"Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:57, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Er...I think we'll be refining this thing for a couple of days so if anyone doesn't like parts feel free to revise them.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:04, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Back in the Game
Hello again, The Dragon! I've had three previous accounts on this wiki, namely User:Aetherium, User:The Snow Prince and User:Asguardian, so I wonder if you (or any other administrator who sees this) could redirect those articles to my new account? I would very much appreciate it! – Mel Sailor (talk) 06:41, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

views
Love it!! Thanks for sharing that info. Stuff like that ALWAYS interests me and I Am always looking at the numbers under our Admin link. haha 23:05, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

Footer Thing
Hey Dragon, I haven't edited a lot lately but I was checking in and noticed the footer thing.

I was looking through it, and I think it's kind of unnecessary and lengthens the home page. It's at the very bottom of the page, which to be honest, I doubt anyone really has any need to go down there, and it appears it would contrast greatly to the color scheme here. That's just my thoughts, it doesn't really matter, but you know, your choice, just my thoughts. How are you by the way? Played the game yet?

Here's a few examples:

http://supergirl.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Wiki

http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Simpsons_Wiki

http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Encyclopedia_SpongeBobia

http://personofinterest.wikia.com/wiki/Person_of_Interest_Wiki

http://the-last-ship.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_Ship_Wiki

http://charmed.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Regards, InGen Nate Kenny (talk) 23:17, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

Robb Stark
Do you remember where GRRM made the comparison you mentioned? If we could find it, it should definitely be added to the article. (For the record, of course I agree Robb was a shitty politician xD ) --CrappyScrap (talk) 22:21, May 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * ...not a specific quote, but what comes to mind is the special feature in the Season 5 Blu-ray about "real life history and Westeros" and they talk about how characters were based on King Edward IV of England (Richard III's older brother). And GRRM is one of the commentators. And I mean the comparisons have been drawn before because they're very obvious: young Edward IV was a lot like Robb, this dashing young warrior king...then as Edward IV hit middle age, he hated the business of actually ruling and became this drunken glutton like Robert Baratheon.


 * ...so I don't have an exact quote but it's a point brought up repeatedly: neither Ned Stark nor Robert Baratheon were particularly good at politics despite being good warriors and generals on the battlefield, and like them, Robb Stark ends up getting politically outmaneuvered due to his own failings (losing any potential alliance with the Baratheons, losing the Karstarks, then losing the Freys was his biggest blunder).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:48, May 22, 2016 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. It's not that I disagree that Robb was a bad politician, but I felt their failings were different in nature. But if its coming from the big man himself, it's gospel :P Cheers! --CrappyScrap (talk) 11:48, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Articles
Hello I was wondering if Trivia sections could be added to character articles, trivia is a great idea especially when people want to know quick facts about the characters. Just a suggestion. Bree 08:44, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Generally we call those "Behind the scenes" sections, not "Trivia". They go immediately above "In the books".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:49, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Watch this guy!
I've had to undo every one of his edits so far because they are spoilers. Shaneymike (talk) 12:34, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Update from leaks
While I'm already bothering you - is there any rule that prevents me from adding information from an episode before its premiere? --CrappyScrap (talk) 14:32, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Explicitly. It is forbidden to update character articles with information from leaks...that's why they're called leaks!--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:27, May 22, 2016 (UTC)


 * Alright. I felt the spoiler policy was a bit unclear on that, but maybe it's just me :) Cheers, --CrappyScrap (talk) 15:53, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Don't update anything from a new episode until it finishes airing, which is at 10pm Eastern Standard Time. If one of the international broadcasters screws up like HBO Nordic and airs it earlier, that's their fault, not ours.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:02, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * - Copy that. Cyanide3 18:22, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Hello the dragon demands, I was recently banned on my account "zillez" for adding details of an episode before it was released. I now realise that was a huge mistake as it was a spoiler and i had no intentions of trying to spoil he episode and merely wanted to be the first one to edit it. I have now read the rules and will never do something like this again and edit before the official release. I really appriciate and love this wiki and hope you can give me a second chance. Thanks, zillez.

No. You should have known better. You will remain banned as an example. A smarter man would just make a new screenname and pretend that he never edited here before nor refer to this incident again.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:26, May 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * I actually do feel the rules should be clearer on this point (especially with 10pm Eastern Standard Time in mind). Feel free to believe I'm being the devil's advocate on purpose, but I honestly think it's an easy mistake to make for a keen and well-meaning contributor. --CrappyScrap (talk) 22:07, May 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree, this is an extreme, uncalled for response - the episode wasn't illegally leaked... it was uploaded by HBO (albeit by mistake). A simple clarification of the rules with a warning not to do it again should be enough... not permanently banning a new, good-faith contributor. - 09:39, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

SomeGoTFan69
Maybe an Indefinite ban is a little extreme for this situation. 00:22, May 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * The taunting was too far - and he'd had warning bans for stuff before that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:27, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

House Mazin
It looks like the unidentified banner at the Battle of the Bastards (blue and white checks and gold rings) will be House Mazin. I'm separated from my personal computer at the moment, so I don't have access to my image editing program, or any of my template files, but I will get started on this when I can (although I don't mind if anyone else wants to have a crack at it). - 09:45, May 24, 2016 (UTC)

I was wondering that. It's similar to a Stormlands banner so I don't know. Strange.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:15, May 26, 2016 (UTC)


 * We'll soon find out. Hopefully we'll get canon GLover heraldry as well. - 10:11, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Affiliates
Can you do me a favor? I need to add Affiliates somewhere on this Wiki.. It may be and I'm just not seeing it. I thought about putting it on the Nav bar? 02:52, May 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Ack. I need to get to this....--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:18, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Favor - Please Delete Old Shield & Banner Files
As you might remember, I have focused on updating all of the pages so that they all use only one version of a shield to bring consistency across the wiki. I have made a lot of progress and a significant number of shields (and almost all the banners) are no longer used anywhere on the wiki.

Can you do me a favor and delete the no longer used shield and banner files (I've added all of them to the category: Candidates for deletion)?

That way we can prevent anyone for re-using these versions in the future. Plus, it makes it a lot easier to see where the old versions are still used if they are not mixed in with all of the shields that are no longer used.

Finally - it looks like almost all of the old versions still being used are part of family trees (with several also being used in the Battle templates, which I am slowly updating). So at some point the family trees will need to be unlocked or someone else with access will need to update the shields.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:30, May 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll lend a hand in the deletion. And thanks for all the hard work, good Ser.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:17, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Victarion
If you are going to delete Victarion, do the same for Willas and Garlan Tyrell seeing how it's the same situation with those pages. Killuminator (talk) 18:33, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

Stark navbox
I was wondering if you could possibly update or give me permission to update the stark navbox please  Bree 16:47, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Hi!

I've contacted you some times ago in order to learn how you put links in the middle of a page.

I was talking about this links []

Can you help me? I'd like to do something similar in my wiki too.

Thanks

Can you please update the Navbox for House Stark and House Bolton?? Bree 12:21, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

TV series retcon: Daenerys can control dragons?
So does what happened in tonight's episode confirm what I think it means? In the books Daenerys can't control her dragons, but in tonight's episode she's doing just that: telling Drogon where to go, when and where to land, and he's not attacking anyone...  DRAEVAN13  01:58, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Did Aegon II tell Sunfyre to come to Dragonstone?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:00, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

New sigils
Just a few quick sigil related matters:


 * 1) Once again, the art department at HBO have used AWoIaF as a direct reference - the Tarly sigil on Randyll's chest is an exact copy, although the fine details can't really be seen, due to the dim, candle lighting. However, the banner from the Purple Wedding can also be seen on the wall of the dinning room. That being said, I would recommend keeping the Tarly heraldry as it is for now (maybe I could adjust the colors slightly?)
 * 2) Should I create a new Kingsguard shield with the crown enclosed within the seven pointed star of the Faith?
 * 3) As I hoped, the trailer for next week gives us our first look at the sigil of House Glover (I'm working on this) with Lord Galbart played by none other than Tim McInnery! - 12:07, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

1 - I've noticed that and it actually contains some errors.

2 - ...hold off on that until we see where they're going with this.

3 - Oh yes, I jumped for joy at Glovers. No longer will some noob come on every other week adding a fanart Glover sigil.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:28, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Jaime's status
Since Jaime's been removed from the Kingsguard as of the latest episode, isn't he technically Lord of Casterly Rock now?  DRAEVAN13  13:45, May 30, 2016 (UTC)


 * ....good question. I think they just removed him as Lord Commander. Dunno.

Memorial Day
Due to the Memorial Day holiday in the United States, everyone is at home using the internet. The whole internet infrastructure is therefore slowed down to a crawl.

My ability to edit for the rest of today will be sporadic at best, in between random points when my internet turns back on.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:49, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Mainpage episode templates need updating...
This is a pretty big wiki so it makes sense they're protected. Its Monday so it should be good for updating.

Anyway, Latest episode and Next episode should be Blood of My Blood and The Broken Man.

CornettoMan
Can you have a word with this user please? He won't follow the Image Policy and is ignoring his talk-page. - 21:40, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

any idea
Any idea who this is? I am going through all the pages that need images...and her page perplexes me. She doesn't even have an IMDB page. Thoughts?

Also, Is the Margaery actress really going by "Mummer" ? I don't see that anywhere. I see her casted as "Theatre Troupe Actress Margaery" What do you think? If not Mummer, I need to change up some of her page, and titles of her pics, etc.

20:07, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

This seems to have a good clue:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/108259-show-spoilers-an-early-look-at-episode-4-that-scene/&page=10

So probably one of the prostitutes in the brothel that Salladhor Saan was in where Davos found him to recruit him to sail for Stannis. Maybe.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:22, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Just found this: http://www.castingcallpro.com/uk/company/69652/fire-blood-productions

It says her role was "Courtesan". Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:30, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Dear dragon demands I would like to make a post on each theory about azor ahai I want to let people know there is more then just he two theories (Dany and Jon) and there are more azor ahai theories out there so permission to write a topic on the list of theories of azor ahai. 204.237.1.59 22:03, June 1, 2016 (UTC)

Sv Game of Thrones
Hi!

I am the admin on Game of Thrones wikia in Swedish. I wonder how I make links from this wikia to the Swedish. Kindest Regards K10rca12 (talk) 09:55, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I have repeatedly tried to contact Wikia Staff about this but received no answer. They need to create the ability to interlink. We didn't use to have automatic links to the Japanese wiki, but later they created them.

I'll ask them again.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:45, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Editing "Blood of my Blood"
The edits you made are full of mistakes:

Why do you insist that Sam stabbed the wight in its heart? He did not. That mistake appears on other pages, like the wights page. Read the book and see for yourself.

Patrek Mallister is not "the eldest son" of Lord Mallister.

It is not written anywhere Blackfish has 200 soldiers. Jaime has nerly 1,000, the Freys - 2,000, but how many soldiers Daven Lannister and Forley Prester brought - unknown. So there is no number to divide by twenty. Just because it is written in the ASOIAF wiki, it is not necessarily correct.

Coldhands did not enter the cave - he couldn't for the reasons he and Leaf explained.

And so on.

No one expects you to learn the books by heart, but it can expected to check the books before making the edits - let alone when the editor is an administrator. 85.250.117.229 15:56, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

As I explained, I wrote the whole thing up in one big burst, offline because my internet was down, and thus I was unable to doublecheck.

Yes Patrek is Mallister's only son.

...I knew Coldhands couldn't directly enter the cave, I must have worded that confusingly.

I honestly remembered Sam as stabbing the wight through the heart, but I will check now...

....AWOIAF says that Blackfish has 200 soldiers. I will have to double-check where they're getting that?

Thank you immensely for the corrections, I can't be everywhere at once.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Okay I made the other three correction, and I just checked: Sam never stabs the Small Paul wight directly in the heart. He was wearing chainmail which turned the blade. I have no idea why I thought this, I must be mentally combining it with some other point when a wight was stabbed in the heart with a normal steel blade.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:36, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Basit5
Please write the reason you blocked him on his talk page.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:03, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * He was spamming links to external sites in a long forum post advertisement for a VPN network.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Bad image template/category?
Do you think we could benefit from a bad image template (well, this wiki doesn't do the top-of-the-page thing AFAIK) and category? Just for grainy, badly colored stuff. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:09, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that could help. I won't opposite you implementing one.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:34, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * How is "Articles with images of poor quality" for a category name? AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:42, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * ...Why not just re-use the existing "Image Needed" category?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:49, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't really mind, although I only suggested that in case there was a difference between "Image needed" being just about articles without images at all. In this case it would be articles with bad images. But one for both is fine, imo. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 19:52, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * My line of thinking is that with only one category we'd only have one to check. And yeah we need hundreds of images. Well, if an image update is badly needed make a post about it on the article's Talk page, that's a quicker way to get attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:00, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'll just go with "Image needed", then, to keep it all in one place. Usually I might just go back and correct a bad image (like Robb Stark), so it's good for reference as well. And I'll start adding to imageless articles, too. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 20:03, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Front Page
Latest/next episode needs updating, by the way. AllHailTheFirstOrder Sworn to King Renly I 18:09, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Two Speaker Template
Not to burden you with so many questions, but why do we have a template for two speakers anyway? Other places like Wookieepedia are able to use the system like I did with the tag listing the speakers in order, implying so on so forth after it expands past two sentences of dialog. AllHailTheFirstOrder Sworn to King Renly I 18:54, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

...It's just what we were using. Ask Gonzalo84 I guess.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:41, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

So is there a rule book somewhere or do you just make shit up? Volvlogia (talk) 01:17, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Gets established through consensus and widespread usage on a wiki by wiki basis.

Please don't use foul language (though that specifically is kind of an idiom).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:32, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Return
I'm back for a bit. I've posted on Gonzalo's wall wondering if I could have my admin rights restored please.--Opark 77 (talk) 18:13, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

(I've been distracted lately sorry for late reply)

Oh you're back? Dear god yes, thank you. Yes we'll restore your Administrator status. We're always short handed and more busy the more popular the show gets.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:21, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

EnglishJoker blocked
I have temporarily blocked EnglishJoker for an insult at the Jon Snow edit summary. 3 months because last time he was blocked for 1 month. Your input would be appreciated.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:34, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

Absent
My cat is dying of kidney failure.

I raised her since a kitten and have lived with her for almost twenty years.

I spent the afternoon digging her grave myself in the garden.

I'll be putting her to sleep tomorrow.

I'm not going to take this well at all. I'm still stunned and wobbly.

I may be absent for some time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:54, June 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * Really sorry to hear this, dude. My genuine thoughts are with you having been through this myself. Take care. Ruby Doomsday (talk) 15:10, June 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * That's awful. We had to have our cat put down about 3.5 years ago and it is really trying. Remember you are sparing them suffering. Be back when you are ready. We'll be fine until then.--Opark 77 (talk) 20:31, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

He became a shell of a man, a burnt-out desolate man, a man haunted by the demons of his past, a man who wandered out into the wasteland.

And it was here, in this blighted place, that he learned to live again...

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:52, June 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * Awww, just saw this and sorry to hear it. Twenty years?! WOW! How blessed you were to have 20 years though!! It is so hard losing a pet baby. My thoughts are with you.

I've been dealing with a lot lately as well... was diagnosed with Hashimoto's Disease...another life changing thing to go through. Ugh. 01:19, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Main Page Noble Houses Template
I think we should remove the Whitehills and Forresters and add Houses Glover and Manderly. We have Hiuse Hornwood even though House Royce has been more prominent.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:56, June 13, 2016 (UTC)

House of Lennister
Hello The Dragon Demands. I wanted to ask you to edit Template:House Lannister family tree. Trystein is dead but in the template he is still alive.--Bolter21 (talk) 15:23, June 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * "Update all family trees" is indeed a major item on my "To Do" list when my work week ends this evening.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:24, June 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the quick answer. I was about to do it but I can't beucase the page is protected. Seems like this was raised already on the 23rd of May. Thanks--Bolter21 (talk) 15:29, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Failed betrothals in family trees
I think they should be removed from family trees, specially since we use the same type of line as with lovers/paramours Might give the impression that Catelyn was Brandon's mistress prior to marrying Ned. These are family trees, not relationship charts--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:58, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Brynden Rivers
Did you know that the Brynden Rivers page has been locked since 2014? 2014?! That is waaay too long, I think. Lord Sharky ( talk )   PINK is the new Black 18:21, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

We kept thinking they'd reveal it as a spoiler.

Now that seems unlikely, I will unlock the page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:43, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Holidays and Festivals page
Hey, I noticed that you removed the Dothraki section on my new "Holidays and Festivals" page. What's up?

Gotlvr87 (talk) 20:55, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I just saw the email alert with your comment "that isn't a festival". I guess that makes sense (it's not really meant to "commemorate" or "celebrate" anything), but I still think it was good for the page. If anything better comes up in the future I'll re-insert the section.

Gotlvr87 (talk) 23:03, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Pics uploaded
What are you talking about now? 22:28, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I re-posted the photo of Tally Tarly at dinner, with (I hope) the proper attributions. Mattgb1 (talk) 18:33, June 17, 2016 (UTC)mattgb1

Asha/Yara's sexual orientation
The reference that's meant to link to GRRM's answer in his "Not A Blog" links to a thread discussing the Season 6 trailer.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:55, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

Odd...I think it's because I posted the Not a Blog link within that thread. Must have cut and paste the wrong thing.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:02, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

Poll
Care to change the poll now? I can't think of a single question. 07:19, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Favorite Battle in the TV series ever:


 * Battle of the Blackwater
 * Fall of Astapor (Season 3)
 * Battle of Castle Black
 * Massacre at Hardhome
 * Battle of the Bastards
 * Second Siege of Meereen (Season 6)

Any I might be forgetting.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 08:13, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oops just saw this. Let's do this during off season for sure. We'll be changing the one up soon anyway, with "What did you think of Season 6" poll. 01:00, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Blocking policy
Hi The Dragon Demands,

I apologise for troubling you but I just wanted to raise something that might sound difficult. I notice that you and the other administrators seem to have a tough policy of blocking several anonymous users infinitely. I am aware that they have committed vandalism, spamming, and other unacceptable behaviour. I don't condone such actions. However, I am concerned it might sound pretty harsh because those are public accounts which get swapped around depending on the IP address. Perhaps, we could have a formal blocking policy guideline like what Wookieepdia has.

Let's say a maximum of three or six months for anonymous users as a suggestion? I occasionally edit here. Have been editing quite a lot with Season 6. Please don't take this criticism personally. I appreciate the hard work that you and the other admins have put into make this Wiki a credible online encyclopaedia for everything Game of Thrones. It is just a suggestion from an outsider. Perhaps, this is something you should discuss with the other administrators and the community. Please feel free to leave a message on my talk page. Andykatib 09:55, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * I have already replied to this, so it is a closed subject and don't worry with it. 00:52, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, IP addresses shift after a while; may be better to block those for 1 year and not infinite.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:52, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

I have sent you a raven
Please check your personal email. :) 00:51, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

blocking policy
So I wrote up a quick blocking policy, however I cannot figure out how to put it on the nav bar. Where do we edit the "On the Wiki" section. Every other section you can edit/find, but that one. I'd like to put it there. Any ideas? here's the policy. 02:33, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

The Forsaken
hello

I just finished reading the released "Forsaken" chapter. If you need the link it is: https://angrygotfan.com/2016/05/29/the-winds-of-winter-the-forsaken/

I think that in view of the information revealed in that chapter - about Balon's death, that Euron committed three kinslaying, what he used to do to Aeron and Urrigan, etc. - the "In the books" section of the pages of Euron, Aeron, Balon and kinslaying should be updated. Maybe not about Aeron's current status because it is kind of spoiler (I'm not sure), but at least about the fact that the books finally reveal who killed Balon. Since those pages are locked I can't do the edits. 85.250.102.234 12:31, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I read the Forsaken stuff when it came out the other week. I just didn't get around to updating everything yet, we're busy with the end of the TV season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:42, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Images
Hi. Im a new user on the wikia. I uploaded some images for "The Winds of Winter" but it's locked. Since your a Beaurecat, I was wondering if you could upload them onto the page for me. Thanks

Lola987 (talk) 15:09, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Load them up into a "gallery" format on the Talk page for the episode, it makes it easier to cut and past them all in at once.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:11, June 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Please check your own talk page Lola987, as I left you a message about our image policy here. You uploaded every image that is already on the page, therefore I had to delete yours. 23:19, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Brynden Rivers
You giving you a heads-up the Jman321 has changed Brynden Rivers to Bryden Targaryen even though he didn't use that name. I don't know how to switch it back. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:24, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Lost my mind perhaps?
I'm going through all the un-categorized images on the wiki..slowly but surely.. and deleting the pics that aren't on any page/being used. I'm on a mission now!!! haha 08:53, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

"We do not do this thing because it is permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we are compelled"--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:48, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Uncategorized Pages
Hmmmm... went to go do more work, and I find THIS. Any idea what that means? Or what happened? 22:55, June 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ooops never mind. I had it wrong. I was working on Uncategorized images.. not pages. :) Problem solved. 22:57, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Going to kick your butt! There are so many images you use in your costume pages that aren't licensed or categorized. SOOOOO not like you! hahaha. 03:49, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * I remember. I was rushing to get it all done.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:01, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Your death list
Just thought I'd drop by to give you a friendly reminder to cross Ramsay off your list of your death list.Shaneymike (talk) 04:20, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't exactly enjoy the poor writing that lead to his death in the TV show.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:08, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Poor writing?Shaneymike (talk) 10:51, June 26, 2016 (UTC)


 * Poor writing. All elements of Ramsay antagonizing the North's lords like the Manderlys who will eventually turn against the Boltons were removed. Instead they invented that Ramsay raped Sansa, anticipating that this would therefore make his death more satisfying...that's just simplistic, lazy writing.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:47, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Image alignment
Image thumbnails are supposed to be evenly distributed throughout the article, correct? Left, right, left, right, and so on. Not all aligned to one side of the page? - 09:00, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Generally. You're supposed to use your own judgement, though, as in some cases it might bust up the paragraphs in a weird way or it would make sense to stack two together for comparison - obviously it doesn't work on short pages, etc. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:45, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * If I could interject quickly... we usually try to keep all images aligned to the right. It just looks neater, makes paragraphs easier to read without images on the left breaking things up. Hope this makes sense. 22:39, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Post Season 6 To Do List
My vaunted "To Do" list of ongoing tasks on a years-long timetable for the wiki as a whole is separate, and already on my userpage.

This is just a quick rundown of particularly major things which need to be updated which came up in Season 6.

Notice that I don't really focus on character pages such as "Jon Snow" or "Sansa Stark" because....my philosophy is that 1 - People know to edit character pages and episode articles, but casual editors are less likely to put in the effort to edit wider stuff, 2 - The main character pages such as Jon Snow and Sansa Stark have been "laying fallow" for a few seasons now, without oversight, and "fix up the character articles" was already a major item on the Overall To Do List before Season 6 began. So Season 6 didn't really change that very much, that's happening later.

Because I was busy with school then death in the family, here's what needs to be done:

First, need to go through all interviews and information materials, which I lost track of. Straightforward though tedious: I went through WatchersOnTheWall.com's news archive and make a list of links to every interview or behind the scenes report which I need to read. This season they split up the "Inside the Episode" features: instead of being 10 minutes each, they now have 3 minutes focused purely on Benioff and Weiss interviews....then the behind the scenes production type information is segregated into new, separate "Behind the Throne" videos, one for every two episodes (because every two episodes had the same director for each). Also, briefly, Peterson's language notes posts, which he did briefly this year on Tumblr. This is all straightforward data-mining, though it is time consuming. Thus:


 * All Season 6 interviews
 * All Season 6 production videos
 * All language notes posts from Peterson

Next we have several large action set pieces, battle articles. The battle article series as a whole has also been "laying follow" since before Season 6 and was a major item on the main "To Do List" anyway, so we don't need miracles here, just a decent job while sifting out the weaker edits from when dozens of people were trying to write on them all at once:


 * Battle of the Cave of the Three-eyed raven
 * Burning of the khals
 * Second Siege of Riverrun
 * Second Siege of Meereen
 * Battle of the Bastards

Next we get into the hardest ones: major thematic updates:


 * Bastard letter - meant to be our "in the books" summary for all the changes to the Mutiny at Castle Black arc, instead of repeating ourselves on every page, we link to this.
 * Ellaria Sand's coupe in Dorne - meant to be our "in the books" summary for all the changes to the Dorne arc, instead of repeating ourselves on every page, we link to this.


 * Tower of Joy flashbacks
 * Melisandre (with updates about her age reveal in the premiere)
 * Night King/origin of the White Walkers
 * Little birds
 * Hodor
 * Kingsmoot
 * Update all family trees and make sure they conform to standards
 * The Bloody Hand/Mummers pages
 * Timeline issues

Also some minor updates:


 * Lyanna Mormont (a popular page)
 * Castle Cerwyn
 * Meribald/Elder Brother/Ray
 * Sam as a maester and Oldtown (probably more of this in Season 6 finale)
 * Abe Lincoln viz Tyrion
 * Is Daenerys fireproof, or did they just really want to split one scene into two scenes?

These are what will be worked on in the first week or two after the finale. Then I move back on to the main, overall "To Do" list.

At the end of the main "To Do" list (which was nearing completion before Season 6 began), we move on to major review and refinement of every character page (House pages count as character pages). These are meant to be quick: not definitive versions, just cleaning up what we already have. I.e. no "research", no rewatching episodes to see what Jon Snow does - purely reading the Jon Snow article and making sure the grammar is coherent. This is meant to be a quick fix task instead of lasting all summer, or even until Christmas break.

And then, my god, we'll be at the point I've been hoping for since Season 3: actually rewatch the show from the beginning of Season 1, one episode at a time, slowly analyzing every aspect of each episode - we were sort of able to do this in Seasons 5 and 6 but much of Seasons 1 and 2 the wiki was still relatively small and we were writing basic stuff like "this is what 'Meereen' is". Actually start with the histories and lore from Season 1 onwards - it's basically five episodes worth of material much of which we already covered, so doing that first just to be definitively done with all of it, exhausting all possible information. Then I move on to episode by episode. I've never listened to any DVD commentary I can't afford them, but I'll grab a copy from my library.

I don't think I'll probably be finished with the episode rewatch project by the Season 7 premiere next February, but maybe nearly so. And the idea is to tune up the relevant other articles like character pages as I advance episode by episode (i.e. rechecking the Theon article when watching Season 2). To be honest, I didn't watch Season 2 very well; Season 1 a family member downloaded, Season 2 I watched half as streaming and half as youtube clips, and only by Season 3 did a family member lend my their HBO Go password to be able to watch normally. So there's a lot of stuff from back in Seasons 1 and 2 which remains buried and escaped notice.

The goal is to finish everything by next February when the next Histories & Lore comes out, but I don't think I'll get through that many seasons by then, or even by the Season 7 premiere itself. But we will be nearly so. Next summer we'll be totally caught up.

I don't know. The ultimate goal of course is to be in such a state of readiness that I can sit down and re-read all the novels from the beginning, I haven't in years. It will provide a lot more context and information.

At this point yeah there are only two seasons left, but you plan how to win tomorrow's war during today's battle. I no longer see Game of Thrones as "a TV show" but as a franchise, and this is preparing the wiki for the inevitable prequel projects: a Dunk and Egg TV series and maybe a Dance of the Dragons prequel series.

Patiently working on "the plan" as I've been since late Season 1 or so. Like Hari Seldon's Foundation, the plan continues.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:58, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Jon's parentage
I think all this talk of Jon marrying into the Stark family to secure the North on the "Winds of Winter" page might be a bit premature. Only Bran knows about Lyanna having a child, so unless he makes it back to Winterfell no one but Bran will know the truth. I think we should wait until next season for that.  DRAEVAN13  16:21, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well yeah, it's only talking about possibilities.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:08, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

chill out about the men😂
Based on facts on the iron islands, Pyke and the rest of the regions, and if you look extensively into their lore, you'll find that they are generally capable of raising around 10,000 men, these facts are easy to find mate...

If they're that easy to find, quote them, or I'm going to ban your account. That isn't how wikis work.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:52, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Greyjoy Military Power
It turns out I was actually wrong, but the Iron Islands are actually capable of raising up to 25,000 forces. Quite surprising actually, and in one of the more "obvious" sources for this,can be found at this link:http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Armies. But the problem is that there are so many sources and sites for this that it is impossible to link them all, search them for yourself if you like. --Thekingindanorf7 (talk) 18:07, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

ps. please don't ban me, it looked empty without showing how many forces the Greyjoys could muster, I simply wanted to fill in the holes, but that time I was wrong.

1 - Leave this blank, do not attempt to add it back, but I won't man you for it.

2 - The numbers in AWOIAF desperately need to be updated; read their source citations; they're citing a decade-old RPG game which was semi-canon to begin with; we don't trust those numbers. Only use a direct reference to the novels.

So really just avoid the "Military Strength" stuff for now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:15, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

I'll leave the Military strength alone
Ok thanks :) I'll just use this site to research game of thrones rather than edit.--Thekingindanorf7 (talk) 18:18, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

If I may. I am well aware the edits on the Rhaegar Targaryen page are getting annoying, but reverting my edit completely removed him from the Family listing once again as I had added it back after some edit war of several other users adding him in and out a whole bunch of times. May I suggest to just officially list him as "bastard son" or "possible bastard son" and lock the page from edits? Otherwise users like sharky will keep removing every single edit done adding him in, and sharky is well known for going on people's nerves by just removing edits all the time because there might be a small possible chance the content of the edit is not 100% correct, like in this case Rhaegar is 99% likely the father of Jon, but not necessarily, it hasnt 100% been confirmed. BUT. Based on this way to argue you could list benjen stark as "possibly deceased" because he has not been confirmed to be alive after the episode. He might have been hit by an asteroid minutes after leaving bran. Thats the kind of edit fight we're facing here. Never seen Sharky do an edit going as far as this, but he has gotten quite close to it already actually. but i dont want to point fingers, its not just him, many users do that. Anyways, sorry to have bothered you. I know the whole story can be quite annoying, edit wars on many pages after every single episode... Shado47 (talk) 18:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

New Main characters portal
For the future:
 * Jon - Sansa - Bran - Arya
 * Cersei - Jaime - Tyrion - Littlefinger
 * Dany - Varys - Ellaria - Olenna
 * Sam - Tormund - Davos - Brienne
 * Theon - Yara - Euron - Sandor

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:36, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * if there are empty spaces: Gilly - Beric - Thoros.

Eventually yeah; need a week or two for people looking up characters who died in the finale.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:35, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

We have 25 slots, six major characters just died. Olenna and Ellaria are back in as faction leaders, and might as well put Edmure in there too as major surviving Tully.

Candidates for thre three remaining spots are:


 * Missandei
 * Grey Worm
 * Gilly
 * Bronn
 * Qyburn
 * Gregor
 * Meera
 * Podrick

Going by the general rule of "don't double up related characters it wastes space"...Podrick is kind of with Brienne a this point, Meera is with Bran, ah crud they're all "with" someone else.

Bronn has been recurring so long and is popular enough that he deserve a slot.

The other two I'm not sure: Qyburn is important now, Gregor to an extent, albeit they double up with Cersei. Gilly kind of deserves one for being a recurring character for so long. Plus Missandei and Grey Worm deserve some time in the sun, tough choice.

....whimsically I'd go with Gilly, Missandei, and Grey Worm, just because people like them more and they're distinct enough.

I'll replace them next week once finale blows over.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:41, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Jon's Page
I opened it for about 15 minutes while I was on, but then locked it up again. You may want to do the same, it's up to you... there is just so many people wanting to add stuff that shouldn't be added...you'll have to keep an eye on it. I went ahead and allowed his father "Rhaegar - speculated" in his infobox, since it is obvious Ned isn't now. I just don't want too much of it coming off as a spoiler, like changing his last name to Targaryen, etc. lol. I'm sure you'd agree. 04:00, June 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * I just finished up the episode notes. Moving on to Jon when I get home from interning today.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:10, June 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * I made some corrections on the article intro, which looked a bit cumbersome so I separated it into two paragraphs. Then I added another paragraph bout his true origin in the Background section.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:04, June 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * If I may interrupt - will the users be able to contribute to or comment on any of these changes being made (prior to the unlocking, I assume)? I cannot really tell if you're going for a full rewrite, or just some quick changes in the intro paragraph and the infobox. Reddyredcp (talk) 18:00, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I just haven't been able to turn my "full attention" to it; a dozen people rewriting it leads to a pile up. Going to sit down tonight, straighten things up, and then just keep track of every subsequent edit in case someone puts in something poorly written.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:43, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

Article changes - your input
Hi Dragon, Not sure you remember me - been off awhile, now I'm back regularly. I have made some changes to the [Gregor Clegane] and [Benjen Stark] articles, after giving detailed, supported and justified reasons on the relevant talk pages. As one of the top admins on the wiki, and as the person I usually look up to when it comes to making edits, I would like to hear your input on it. It is obviously not a priority, but if you had a few minutes to spare for an opinion on the matter I'd appreciate it. I hope you agree with me. Thank you!

Best, --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 13:18, June 28, 2016 (UTC)

...according to your contributions tab, you joined the wiki in June 2015, made a handful of edits almost all of which were on your own profile page, and then disappeared for a full year.

Wow, NO, I do not "remember you", and it is ridiculous of you to think I would on a wiki of this size. ONCE AGAIN, you are obsequiously making direct messages to Admins.

The Gregor Clegane Talk page wasn't detailed and supported it was a farce. You started editing it during the height of the post finale editing boom, few people could take part in the conversation because we were focused on Jon Snow, ADMINS weren't able to take part in the discussion - me included - then you self-declared that "a lot of people decided to make these changes".

Wow. No, the Gregor Clegane infobox will use current imagery. Two or three people agreeing with you isn't "a lot of discussion", and the wiki was obviously too busy with other matters for a full discussion to take place.

Now a week has passed and I'm on cleanup duty, finally addressing your edits.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:06, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Ratings
WOW!!!! OMG! I feel like we need to tell staff or something! haha 01:06, June 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * Why not? It reminds them we do this for free, you know. But I need to get to the Jon Snow article now that I'm done with the episode article and i'm back from internship in city.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:08, June 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * That damn Jon Snow article is going to be the death of me. UGH. 01:10, June 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * Why's that a specific problem? I mean it's a lot of work but I should be done later tonight.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:23, June 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * The specific problem was editors hounding me to unlock it... when given the reason I couldn't.. that didn't suffice and I got more of an earful. It was just tiring. 01:24, June 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * This editors complaining, some requesting it to be locked and others requesting it to be unlocked. For the love of R'hllor! Thanks the old gods most of them won't last too long because they are the "knights of summer" and winter has come (at least in the southern hemisphere). Meanwhile have filled the Jaime Lannister and House Lannister articles with warnings not to add Tywin's titles. And now we have this "House Lannister of King's Landing" nonsense.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:01, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Deceased Characters
Hi there,

I'd just like to know if it is right to change the recently deceased characters descriptions by changing is to was, like "This character was a major character in seasons 1,2,3 etc. They were played by this actor." And also I just want to ask wether the targaryen sigil like your avatar is ok for me to use in my signature, or if it is against wiki policy, since I tried to upload the image and noticed one like it had been removed already.

-Thanks

   Wikia User | RedstoneDemigod | Fire and Blood 12:18, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Which Targaryen sigil?

For the moment that's the tense we use: "Loras is a character in the TV series" because that includes Season 1. We may be reevaluating that later this summer but it will be a massive overhaul. Stay tuned.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:31, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation. And this Targaryen Sigil.

 Wikia User | RedstoneDemigod | User Talk 15:56, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

"Magic" page
I've been wanting to add something about the Rhoynar's "water magic" to this page for a while, but editing doesn't seem to be an option. I also think there's some good info. from the ASOIAFW that can be added without any spoilers. What is the policy on this page?

Gotlvr87 (talk) 13:48, June 29, 2016 (UTC))

Hold off for now; now that season is over going to finally get to major updates for all things considered background; you'll know it when you see it, check back soon.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:47, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Taking a break
I'm sorry, but I'm just too aggravated with the wiki right now. Too many people hounding me, things I don't agree with are happening and I think it's best I just step aside for awhile. On top of being diagnosed with my liver disease, I was also recently diagnosed with an incurable autoimmune disease... I'm living in hell right now health wise and this wiki does nothing to help me...if anything it only makes things worse. Best of luck. 13:52, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Dear god.

Well...with the wiki at least, the burst of activity after a season finale is always expected and is dropping back to safe levels.

Crud. Damn it, crud.

What things didn't you agree with? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:24, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark and Targargyren family tree's needs updating
Hello, I've noticed that both the Targayren and Stark family trees are largely out of date, and they haven't been update to show the new information concerning Jon Snow's parentage. Besides that, there are others reasons as to why they are out of date, specifically in the Targayren family tree which doesn't even the Targayren family members relating to the Dance of Dragons and Aegon the Conqueror which were 'introduced' in the show canon in the Season Five Blu-Ray Histories and Lore videos.

Anyways, I believe needs to be unlocked and changed.

Thank you, Nerdman3000 (talk) 15:09, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

How I worked in order:
 * 1 - Write season finale episode article Notes - done
 * 2 - Rewrite Jon Snow article - mostly done
 * 3 - Update family trees - current task.

I have to sleep sometime.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:02, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

How do you edit when a page is locked house Targaryens lord is not Jon snow and I want that to change. Thanks Dragonsbeatwolves (talk) 17:02, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

I had to do internship work and family stuff all week since episode aired - when I stayed up all night each night writing up the episode notes for finale, then Jon Snow page.

Now I'm free with fourth of July holiday weekend.

...I half-seriously wanted to go through "recent changes" list since the season premiere but now dismiss this out of hand as absurd.

New goal is to go through recent changes since Sunday, to rein in the confusion caused by the new editor boom post-finale.

Then systematically work on all significant changes from finale itself. I've barely been on the wiki since Monday.

But these are solvable problems.

Really, it's just a question of reassembling the components in the correct sequence.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:45, July 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * This needs to be updated
 * http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Template_talk:Familytree/Jon_Snow

Lord of House Stark
There's an ongoing discussion of the head/lord of House Stark. Here's the thread link: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:47132#16. Add some input, there's a poll too for those who love voting. Admins, there's an edit war, your involvement in the thread is recommended. Sorry for your loss, The Dragon Demands --Kai200995 (talk) 15:39, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Page names.
Personally, I don't think we should rename pages just when someone becomes known as something else. For example, Lancel Lannister and Lorad Tyrell are now known simply as "Lancel" and "Loras". That's pretty stupid, because yes they renounced allegiance to their family and titles, yet everyone who has met them will know them for their full name which they have since birth. It also keeps the wiki looking more professional and informative. If, say, Robb Stark were to committ an atrocious mistake, and be kicked out of the House, stripped of his name and titles and called "Idiot" by everyone it's not like we'd rename the page as such and describe him as "Idiot, formerly Robb Stark". I know it's a stupid example but its just a thought which I think merits debate. The pages of everyone should remain to their original identity. I also saw awhile back you wanted to rename the Theon Greyjoy page to "Reek". That wouldn't have been good because A. Everyone knows him as Theon Greyjoy, and that's how he was born, and B. Reek was just a name his torturer gave him. I also saw somewhere else that you said pages should be names according to what people are known, not their true name. This was on the Jon Snow Talk page. I think what people are known as is irrelevant, their real original name is important. If, say, I joined a religious order which requires me to abandon my family name, my documents would still have my full, original name. Likewise, if my name was Jack White but I was known as John Blue, my original, used name would still be Jack White. Just a thought and I just hope we can talk it through.

Best, --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 00:36, July 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * Our model, A Wiki of Ice and Fire keeps family names (like "Luceon Frey" is the article for Septon Luceon or "Theomore Lannister" for Maester Theomore)--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:26, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly, which is why the Loras and Lancel pages should be renamed Loras Tyrell and Lancel Lannister. It's still who they truly are. Also, the Smalljon Umber page should be called "Jon Umber". That's his name, we don't have Jon Snow listed as the White Wolf just because people call him that.--EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 09:14, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

It's ridiculous to change Loras's page from "Loras Tyrell" to "Loras" given that he renounced his inheritance a matter of minutes before his death.

While we're at it I always opposed renaming "Lancel Lannister" to "Lancel" due to the fact that he dropped his name midway through the TV series's run. I think it makes it easier to find if we just call it "Lancel Lannister".

...indeed, I also think we should just retitle articles as "Greatjon Umber" and "Smalljon Umber" and note within the article that this isn't the character's real name but a common nickname.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:42, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

The viewer's guide has them both as "Lancel Lannister" and "Loras Tyrell". In Loras' case, he didn't formally renounce his name, just announced his intentions to do so, and under extreme duress. - 11:04, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Good to see all agree. Loras and Lancel pages will then get renamed to Lancel Lannister and Loras Tyrell, as per full name. The Smalljon Umber page will be renamed Jon Umber, and Greatjon Umber will also be renamed Jon Umber, with the articles mentioning their respective nicknames of Smalljon and Greatjon. In essence, all pages should be names with the characters TRUE, ORIGINAL and FULL name, regarldess of changes or nicknames. Unfortunately I am not an admin, or else i'd personally do it. If someone pf such competence could get on it i'd be grateful. Thank you --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 13:52, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

another admin?
I was just looking over some of Ser Shield McShield's work, and even though he's been here a short time, he seems very competent. What would you think about asking him if he'd be interested in being admin? Maybe ask if he's been Admin before on another wiki? Do we need another admin? Don't we only have 3 of us active right now? 03:34, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah he seems cool.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:19, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm going to go ahead and extend the invitation. He is needed. What about User:Xanderen? 17:26, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Actually I was about to suggest Xanderen as well, I only hesitated because I didn't know if you thought we needed another one. But yeah we're pretty busy now we need more qualified hard-working mature guys on the team.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:34, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Character navbox
Any thoughts on how to proceed with this? We've lost: Blackfish, Tommen, Margaery, Walder, Kevan, and Ramsay. I guess Olenna can replace Marg, and... Ellaria could go back (I hate saying it). Not sure about the others. - 10:04, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * I've also sorted the Manderly and Reed portals - [[File:Man-Portal.png]][[File:Ree-Portal.png]].


 * Would you be able to replace Jyanna Reed's family tree icon? The correct file is "House-Reed-Square.PNG. Thanks! - 10:26, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Missing user
Hi Dragon, A general question - I hope i don't disturb you, but do you have any idea what happened to Ser Patrek? I remember when I first joined up I quite liked his edits and I was always looking at his contributions as models to my own when i was first learning. He also helped me a lot, teaching me and finding my way around. I wanted to go and say hi, that i was back but i found his userpage deleted and he never replied to me, i messaged him a few times. I just wanted to know if you knew anything, or if he left or whatever.

Thank you --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 16:40, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

He never told us, though he'd mentioned in the past that he was worried about cyber-stalking; indeed, he even changed his username once before due to cyberstalking problems. I can only assume this was the reason; he left very abruptly.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I'm really sad to hear it; i had great respect for him. Does this leave a vacancy for admin?--EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 20:22, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Technically there's no upper limit for Admins; it's how many people we think are capable enough to trust them with the powers. The basic qualities are do a lot of work over an extended time period and eventually, "hard work gets rewarded" if you ask.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:48, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Got you. Well thank you very much, I do hope he's alright. Anyway, now that I am done with exams and have summer plus a gap year, I will be on here 90% of the day! I look forward to working with you. See you soon!

Best --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 09:38, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Please return
In hindsight, and looking at what I wrote, I probably should have been nicer to Gonzalo after everything that was going on. It wasn't my intention to target any admin when I said some stuff, I was just a bit annoyed at the time being without context for the situation. I hope Gonzalo (if he sees this) knows that I feel no ill will toward him. As for coming back, I don't really know what else I could add to the wiki, but I'm mostly tempted to add new pictures if I see the opportunity for one. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 00:52, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

House Stark back and forth
What is the consensus on how the infobox should be on House Stark? There is a lot of back and forth. Obviously it's Jon Snow (King), then Sansa, Arya, and Bran as heir? I don't know.. I protected it until it can be fixed. 18:19, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Jon Snow is the King in the North, whether or not people say he's the Lord of House Stark - it doesn't matter. Because he officially has not legal rights to Winterfell or being in charge of a different when HE IS IN FACT a TARGARYEN! Claimant to Iron Throne maybe but not to Winterfell or Lord of House Stark. White Walker Ramsay 18:32, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * But he doesn't, nor does anyone else know he's a Targaryen.. so that has no sway on anything at this point. While I believe one of the children are heir to Winterfell, Jon is King of the North. 18:39, July 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * OK so no one knows (characters) he's a Targaryen. We (all the viewers) know he's a Targaryen - yet it's OK for people to edit Jon Snow's page on this wiki and put Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark as his parents but when it comes to his rights as a Targaryen is it also OK to put a character who is a Targaryen that WE (viewers) know about as the rightful Lord of Winterfell and House Stark?? I'm sorry but I cannot see the logic in this. White Walker Ramsay NK mini sigil.png 18:44, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I did not immediately start work on this because the episode article itself needed to be updated, then the Jon Snow article, then the family tree templates...after which I needed to read through the 5,000 or so edits on the wiki since the post-finale newbie boom - many of which were simply complaints asking why everything wasn't done hours after the finale aired. Admins have to review stuff to make sure there's no vandalism.

What I have left to review are the edits since last Sunday made by non-anonymous users, exclusive of my own edits (under the "Recent Changes" filter options) - which should go faster than the anonymous ones because regular users are usually more constructive. There are about 5,000 of them.

I never even read the "House Stark" article since last Sunday. Let me clarify that; I didn't get to it yet, I was busy with the other stuff ahead of it. Thus whatever people already put into the infoboxes as you mention (when it comes to his rights as a Targaryen etc) does not reflect an actual policy "decision".

Yesterday it was the Jon Snow article, now it's the House Stark article. This is a massive book series and so many people seem surprised that it's taking us more than a single day to incorporate a bunch of massive plot revelations.

Yes, progress is being made. The new user boom post-finale slowed us down, but we are recovering.

I don't expect you to be happy about this but you need to be patient for only a little longer, I'm turning to this now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:06, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Noble Houses are both families and political factions. Thus we list that Jon Snow's real father is a Targaryen, but at the same time, do not give him the political titles that go with that because no one including himself knows what his real parentage is just yet. Thus Jon isn't "Prince of Dragonstone" or "King of Westeros" etc. if he isn't even aware of it. I think this distinction is fairly clear.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:07, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to drop what I'm doing to address this - as if it was the first thing I worked on Sunday night instead of the other stuff, ignoring the back and forth discussions I didn't read.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:13, July 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * The Viewer's Guide, which is an official HBO website, lists Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell... that should resolve the situation. - 19:08, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Good to know, good to know. This raises another issue: part of "incorporating/addressing/analyzing" "the finale" is also reading all interviews and supplementary information - which also takes time. So I have a choice between "writing the Jon Snow article", "writing the House Stark article, cold" or "expend time into researching the House Stark article".

'''Everyone: it may be several days before we fully address and dissect everything from this episode. Anything I put in the infoboxes now will be a stop-gap measure and placeholder.'''--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:13, July 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with everything you said above TDD. While the rightful heir is currently Lady Sansa, the people have chosen Jon as their King.. so where does that leave him in Winterfell? Ugh... enjoy this one TDD. haha 19:17, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Also just a thought, even though Sansa is rightful heir right now, Jon being King.. doesn't that chump anything.. couldn't he literally set up shop wherever he wanted? 19:19, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Jon is King, however heir is Lady Sansa and people have ACTUALLY voted Sansa as Lord of House Stark. But I understand characters in the series have named Jon as King... White Walker Ramsay 19:24, July 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * As I explained in the edit summary: It's not up to us to just vote on who we want to be the head of House Stark. We're an encyclopedia, and we're duty bound to record facts as they are presented to us, nothing more. Fortunately, on this occasion, there is a canon source (VG) that directly refers to Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell. - 19:28, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

'''The Admins never put this to a vote. Whatever vote you held was meaningless.'''

We were simply buried with tasks and didn't get to turn our full attention to the matter. Quite simply it's too unclear - and my stop gap solution was just to leave a large note explaining "we don't know".

Now we've more or less got a handle on things.

I agree with everything Xanderen just said.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:35, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Family section
In the family section, shouldn't we limit how far we go back to avoid having an extremely long list.

For Example:
 * Close ancestors (avoid great-greats)
 * Father
 * Mother
 * Siblings (arrange according to order)
 * Spouse
 * Children (arrange according to order)
 * Close descendants (grandchildren)
 * Other relatives (aunt/uncle/cousin)
 * Other relatives (niece/nephew)

AshBell 21:39, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Night's Watch navbox
Greetings,

The Night's Watch navbox needs updating - it is locked.

Would you please be so kind to unlock it as I would like to PERSONALLY take care of it's editing.

Thanks!

22:48, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Just a question on Jon's sigil's
The house banner's above his infobox... the Night's Watch is there. Should it still be? Did he claim himself that his watch has ended, therefore wouldn't his fealty to them also? I can't remember who was left in charge when he left. 16:55, July 4, 2016 (UTC)


 * Well he was Night's Watch then he left so...I'm not sure if they reflect "current" allegiance only, but I thought we were showing their history of shifts. Gonzalo84 would know better than I do.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:32, July 4, 2016 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the middle is used for shifted, past or divided allegiances and the rest of the infobox completes the information. I'm dubious, though, if Jon should have the Targaryen sigil on the left side.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:19, July 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds confusing to me. lol So from left to right... should be current house, middle should be past house?, and right is....? 19:48, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

....what it was a few days ago, just with Night's Watch in the middle I think...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:58, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Brandon Stark (Son of Eddard)
Brandon Stark (Son of Eddard) .... really? Is that really the page title? I think it should simply be "Bran Stark". What are your thoughts? I have a talk section going on that page. 00:01, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
 * We fixed this. Never mind. 03:15, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

EchoesOfTheTower did that. Edit summary: "Agreement on naming pages with their full name)"

He didn't bother to ask about renaming a major character's page, nor asking what exactly the "agreement" or pattern actually was.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:30, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

When we were discussing if we should rename the Lancel, Loras and Umber pages we came to the conclusion that all pages should be named with their original full name, with their nickname mentioned within the article. Therefore, I was just following protocol - that's his name, thats what they called him. By this logic, should Daenerys's page be renamed "Dany Targaryen" just because her brother calls her that? No, in fact "Dany" is mentioned in the "also known as" tab, and the same should go for Brandon. Ned's page is called "Eddard Stark" as that is his full name, despite him being almost exclusively referred as Ned. Joffrey Baratheon wouldn't be called Joffrey Baratheon (Son of Jaime Lannister) because he is the ONLY Joffrey Baratheon. I put the (Son of Eddard) bit to distinguish him from his uncle whose page name is Brandon Stark (Son of Rickard). I don't do stuff randomly, I do pay attention to these details. I am sad that pages are not named professionally. His nickname doesn't have anything to do with it.-- 18:34, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

"When we were discussing if we should rename the Lancel, Loras and Umber pages we came to the conclusion that all pages should be named with their original full name, with their nickname mentioned within the article."

No, dear god, NO, No one ever said that. It was a question of "should we drop a character's surname" specifically....I am stunned that you generalized this into "use Brandon Stark's full name including parentheses afterwards to say "Son of Eddard").

This is a stunning lack of reading comprehension.

On a case by case basis we call him "Bran Stark" because there are multiple characters with that same name and they use "Bran" very commonly to differentiate him. In contrast, Daenerys is usually called Daenerys, and only rarely called "Dany". You should have been able to draw this distinction.

"I am sad that pages are not named professionally."

That is an insult.

Yes, we name them "professionally" - based on the principle of access points, needs of the user for clarity.

I.e. "William Clinton" is so commonly called "Bill Clinton" that it would be odd for Wikipedia.org not to call him that.

Yikes. It is absurd that you are outright defending the mistakes you made with this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:01, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

No, you weren't paying attention to the details - or rather, you're seeing the trees but not the forest.

AND you didn't try to read up on the "BRan Stark" disambiguation Talk pages where we discussed this months ago.

But most of all, you could have DIRECTLY ASKED AN ADMIN "Hey, how are we handling Bran Stark, multiple characters have the same name".

Instead you jumped to a poor conclusion. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:07, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Sumeyye1
What did Sumeyye1 do?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 14:00, July 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Added "Jon's real name is Jaehaerys I Targaryen" into the top line of the page. Not just "Jaehaerys", but "Jaehaerys I"...ignoring the fact that there's already a Jaehaerys I. Ugh.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:17, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Template:Navigation/Locations
Hi there,

Template:Navigation/Locations links to "Vaes Dothraki" rather than Vaes Dothrak. Just letting you know because I'm unable to edit it myself. Thanks.   TargaryenBlood  Talk Contribs  15:56, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Maternal/Paternal Split
Hi,

First of all, I wanted to say kudos to you for how you changed up the relatives in the infobox for Jon Snow. I like it a lot. Triad and I left messages on Jon's page as to whether or not to apply your structure to other character articles. I've been kicking around in my head how I would go about doing that for Ned and Catelyn's children. I'm thinking their siblings and spouses would be lumped together with their parents as uou did with Jon's parents, and then obviously we would divy up their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins under maternal/paternal. What about in-laws? Talisa, Tyrion, Ramsay...where would they go? I'm thinking they should probably be lumped along with parents, spouses, and siblings but I would appreciate your input before I apply the structure you used anywhere else. Kudos again for coming up with that split on Jon's page. I think it's brilliant. Shaneymike (talk) 16:25, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, though only on the really long ones (I've they've got one maternal uncle or something it isn't worth making a "mother's family" section). But this is all eventual when we get through systematic updates.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:12, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I won't do any maternal/paternal split for someone like Robyn Arryn since there's practically no one on his father's side. But yeah I would definitely apply your structure to the Stark children since theirs is pretty long. Shaneymike (talk) 17:27, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Home page
Could you change the Home page, to say that the winds of winter is the most current episode to date, thank you.78.144.36.15 20:57, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

break
You seeing this crap? THIS is why I said I needed a break. UGH! -face palm- 00:53, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

email
Emailed you. 03:58, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Problems
Dragon, I am sorry for whatever problems I have caused. I may have jumped into the flurry of things a bit too quickly and perhaps not realized some of the things were wrong. Believe me when I say I'm sorry - you pointed out there were problems in my editing, like I said I want to be part of the solution and not the problem. I would like to have some time to discuss this with you, and I would like you to help me see what I did wrong so I do not repeat it, please. I want to work here with you and everyone else, therefore I an ready to follow your lead to understand my mistakes. While I wait for you to get back to me (and I hope you do) I will stand down from active editing duties. Thank you Best -- 07:17, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry template
It seems to have become common practice to duplicate a characters shields on both left and right sides of their profile, and then to cram additional shields into the middle - this is wrong, in my opinion, and looks incredible messy. Not to mention being completely redundant. It's fine for characters like Daenerys, who only has one affiliation, and is the head of her own house... but for characters like Jon we don't need to put a second Stark shield on the right just because he's left the Night's Watch - we already know he's a Stark, it's his birth house. Same deal with Cersei - her loyalty to House Lannister is reflected by her left hand shield, it doesn't need to go on the right as well just because she's now queen. - 17:12, July 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the right shield is meant to indicate current loyalties and the left shield the house you are born to, or otherwise the one you are first loyal to or most affiliated with (in the case of Bronn, for example, whose family obviously doesn't have a sigil). I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinion, I think it's alright if we repeat it twice, once for the left side to indicate birth and once for the right to indicate current allegiance. Cersei Lannister obviously isn't "loyal" to House Baratheon anymore, but she was also born into House Lannister. That's just my opinion though. Reddyredcp (talk) 17:58, July 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * Xanderen - I have to disagree with you. I don't think adding shields in the middle is "cramming" them in. The template is set-up to have up to 5 shields along the top. Why would the template be set-up to allow for 5 shields if we would only use the left and right one?

Plus, I think the multiple shields performs a good function - it is a quick recap of that character's evolving allegiance. For example with Jon Snow, if the right one is the Night's Watch, what is the differnce between Jon and all of remaining active members of the Night's Watch. If the right one is changed to House Stark, then what is the difference between Jon Snow and the Starks such as Bran? But if you have the Night's Watch in the middle, it emphasizes how unusual a character Jon Snow is - very few people that have joined the Night's Watch ever left it allive. Same thing with Jaime Lannister leaving the Kingsguard and the Cersei situation is unprecedented.

So I think by making the shields less "messy", it eliminates some important information about that character that helps people remember what has happened with a particular character. With Sansa, having both the Lannister and Bolton shields is important since her marriage to Tyrion happened so long ago that a lot of viewers have forgotten about it BUT it is probably going to be an important point in the future once Sansa and Tyrion probably meet up again. If you're not like a super-fan like we are, it might seem like Tyrion and Sansa being married comes out of left-field when it is mentioned in Season 7 or 8. I already had people I watch the show with ask me why Lyanna mentioned Lannister when Sansa, Jon and Davos asked for Lyanna's support in their fight against the Boltons. I had to remind them Sansa had married Tyrion so I think by leaving the Lannister shield in the middle for Sansa, it provides an important reminder for whoever comes by and reads her page.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:24, July 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * SSMcS - You misunderstand me: I don't mean we shouldn't use more than two shields, of course we should (where it's appropriate). What I'm saying is there appears to be a misconception that the far right shield has to always = most recent affiliation, and that the far left one automatically = former affiliation. I believe the system here is supposed to be based on what AWoIaF does, which is simply to display the heraldry that a character uses throughout their life (or at least is legally allowed to use).


 * In Sansa's case this should be - Stark (far-left), Lannister (middle-right), Bolton (far-right). There's no need to put a second Stark shield on the far-right because she never stopped being a Stark. Same deal with the Cersei and Jon. - 19:22, July 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * OK, I now see what you're saying but I still think what you are proposing is confusing. I think the second Stark shield for both Sansa and Jon are important to show that both of these characters are now both actively aligned with House Stark instead of just being born into this family. Plus, someone like Tyrion, who is actively working against his family's interests shows that a character's birth family is not necessarily what a character is aligned with. Jon already showed that he put the Night's Watch in front of House Stark but now he puts House Stark ahead of the Night's Watch. That is a very important part of Jon's story that would be obscured by just leaving the Night's Watch on the right for Jon - or House Bolton on the right for Sansa.


 * Finally, I think it is way easier to explain to the editors at large to say "Allegiance by birth on the left, past allegiance(s) in the middle, current allegiance on the right" instead of trying to explain the finer points of which shields a character is legally allowed to use.
 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:36, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Help - mistake
Hello,

I created a new page not knowing it existed already - it was for a minor, mentioned character, so I did not know. I cannot delete it, could you please do it? I am sorry.

Thank youSergeant Abraham Ford (talk) 17:41, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

Just quick warning
Just noticed this person. Keep an eye on them, as I have this feeling it could be a sock pocket of "you know who". The image in the infobox seems so fake. HERE. Thoughts? 01:21, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

Affiliation
Hi! We at PLL wiki would love to affiliate with you.

--Harryhogwarts (talk) 04:39, July 10, 2016 (UTC)Harryhogwarts

Affiliation
Hi! We at PLL wiki would love to affiliate with you.

--Harryhogwarts (talk) 04:40, July 10, 2016 (UTC)Harryhogwarts
 * Please message me this on my talk page please. I normally take care of the affiliates. Thanks 04:41, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

latest sock puppet
So I went to delete "Zachs" images... one of them was on another page "The vampire diaries"... and it said "Male, Student, from England". BUSTED. lol See it here. 05:28, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

Block
Sorry what did i get blocked for?? I wasnt doing "sockpuppet" what even is that?

I didn't do anything wrong !


 * I asked Wikia to run a check user, and surprise surprise Sergeant Abraham Ford and EchoesOfTheTower edit from the same IP. - 22:08, July 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Can you check WillNet31? He just left me a message and he sounds exactly like EchoesOfTheTower and given the types of edits he makes - that he is the only one who knows what is happening - that we are just power-tripping admins, etc. - I think WillNet31 is another sockpuppet of Echoes.


 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:23, July 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I no longer think WillNet31 is a sockpuppet of Echoes but I blocked himself for his abusive messages. Basically, the guy is proud of how he bullies others - who wants that kind of person around?


 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:30, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Idea
Just had an idea. What about making a category for pages that says "Image needs brightening"? I am going through so many, but I'd have a lot of help if people could add that category for me. That way I can brighten (or someone else can), the images so they are better seen. This could be infobox or images in the synopsis.. we'd be able to tell which it is. What do you think? Thanks. 23:26, July 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * So again, I just add BrighterImageNeeded with brackets, like a STUB tag would be? (I just wanted to show you the latest I sent Gonzalo.. he's helping me with this. 23:45, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Top Links
Hi TDD,

I'm having issues producing what you're talking about on the page you provided. Can you supply me with a screenshot?

Thank you,

Knakveey (talk) 16:20, July 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't mean to butt in, but if this is about the food fantasy thing, I brightened a couple of images you can give. If this isn't what you're talking about, my bad. lol 23:46, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

kitn line of succession
If King Jon dies (and is brought back by The Hound) it does not matter who's the heir of Ned, who was just warden of the north and never king. It would only matter who is the most close relative of King Jon. Jon does not have siblings, so he is probably himself the person who is most closely related to himself. Jon, first of his name (talk) 23:40, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

His cousins are his relatives. Don't let your fanboyism blind you to logic.Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:49, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm only talking about this. I don't doubt that Bran is Jon's heir as long as Jon does not have any children. So technically Bran is probably the true crown prince of all Seven Kingdoms and Danaerys number 4 in the line of succesion (or 5 if we consider uncle Benjen as being alive) Jon, first of his name (talk) 00:20, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Audiobooks
Hey, have you ever listened to the A Song of Ice and Fire audiobooks? I've just started the first one, and while I'm enjoying Roy Dotrice's narration, and the different voices he does, I'm finding all the mispronunciations really grating - "PER-TIE-ER" Baelish! Do you know if this is something that gets corrected in later chapters? - 10:24, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

An e-raven has arrived
I have sent you an e-raven.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:41, July 13, 2016 (UTC)