User talk:Gonzalo84

Telltale Games
We need your vote on this, everyone else voted already: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:GoTWiki_Small_Council_meeting_4:_GoT_video_game_by_Telltale?t=20141204001549

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:07, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Fan Studio
Hi Gonzalo84,

I tried emailing you the other week in regards to an exclusive opportunity; hopefully, it’ll be of interest! In conjunction with Telltale Games, Wikia will be working to create a unique experience for visitors of our Game of Thrones community, specifically the pages centered on the episodic Game of Thrones: A Telltale Game. I wanted to see if you'd be interested in joining us.

I’m contacting select fans of both the HBO series and the Telltale Tale Games series to see if they’d like to help with this initiative, and your Wikia activity identifies you as a great prospect. Participation in the project will involve sneak peeks at upcoming episodes, exclusive access to game developers, and other great perks not available to the general public. Interested? If so, the first step is to join us in the Wikia Fan Studio -- the virtual environment where our project will take place. You should’ve already received an invitation to register; if you haven’t, please do let me know and one will be sent promptly. Even if you aren't interested in this particular project, registering with the Fan Studio will allow us to match you with other upcoming projects that could be a great fit! Remember, you’re never under any obligation to participate in a project, and the info you provide is kept in accordance with our privacy policy. And please do refer any other Wikia community members you think might be a fit for this program by passing along a link to their user page. We value your opinion and want to insure the best candidates are invited into this project.

Let me know if you are interested or have any questions,

Knakveey (talk) 00:36, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

Affiliates
Hi :) My name is John and I'm an admin on Mistresses Wiki.

I just started watching the show and upon visiting the wikia I saw the affiliates list. I was wondering if you'd be interesting in affiliating my wikia ? :) --Zooomi 21:30, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Appointing new Admins for Season 5
Please check this out: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:GoTWiki_Small_Council_meeting_5:_Wild_Card_Day

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:37, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Episode 2 Mainpage Changes
Hello,

This is Knakveey from Wikia's game team. I wanted to reach out to some of the active admins with a request in regards to the main page for the upcoming Telltale: GoT episode 2 that is due out soon. This is of course a request and you can decline to have any changes made, but you might find some of the suggestions helpful for the wiki.

- Would it be possible to have the latest fannotation trailers highlighted on the mainpage slider? I know it is currently under "featured media", but it would be great to have it in the slider too.

- What are your thoughts about adding a "Telltale" link under the "Episodes" tab in the nav bar? It would allow users to access articles in regards to the game more efficiently.

- We thought it would be nice to add a right rail unit that highlights the most recent game episode/game character/crucial choice, etc. This would be a new unit on the page and it would be designed by our artists here. They would make something that is slick and will not deviate from the overall look of the wiki. This design will also be sent to you before proceeding so we can make sure it's something that you like and are happy with. Alternatively, what about using the existing "Featured Article" section to highlight the current episode?

If you prefer, I can also post this on the forum/small council and repeat what I have mentioned above.

Again, you do not need to do any of these things, but it is something we think can help improve traffic to the page and increase it's reputation for being a great database for all things Game of Thrones.

Thanks for your time,

Knakveey (talk) 22:35, February 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * 1) For the main page slider I'd rather defer to my co-bureaucrats QueenBuffy and TheDragonDemands
 * 2) I would keep the bar as it is, the Telltale game is supplementary to the show and this is a wiki about the show, not the game.
 * 3) Likewise. Too much rails and links make the wiki visually cumbersome.

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:06, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

Histories & Lore pagequotes
This has come up a few times: for historical characters, sometimes we have a great quote that "encapsulates the character" from the Histories & Lore videos, because they're more detailed. Conversely, we have times when they're at least mentioned in the main TV series, though only in passing.

Major example: Maegor Targaryen is discussed in greater detail in the Histories and Lore videos, but the most prominent time he's mentioned in the TV series is when Sansa gives the answer to Mordane that the Red Keep was built by Maegor the Cruel, back in Season 1.

A principle I've been trying to use from my library school instruction is to remember that most of our "audience" doesn't know the material as well as we do. Even the "attentive TV-first viewers", TV viewers who do pay attention, don't always watch the Histories and Lore videos. So I think the best thing to do for "historical characters" is to start with "most prominent/good quote about them in the main series" at the top of the page....though we'd then work in the "better quote about them from the Histories and Lore" into another part of the article. That is...the opening quote is "this is where you may have heard of this person or thing mentioned in the main series", a "hook" to act as a starting point. Well, see what I mean on the Maegor Targaryen article.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:58, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

I used the quote because I don't like dialogues so much. As for Daeron. The quote was more about the book than Daeron himself.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:24, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Site merge
Hi, Gonzalo84!

As the good folks here know, we have an existing Game of Thrones wikia that exists solely to document content for the Telltale game. After discussing it with the lead admin over there, a tentative agreement has been reached that would result in the merging of that site into this one. I am aware that a recent vote was cast here on how to include game information, but am also aware that the existing team here has been focused almost exclusively on the television series.

Here is the proposal - please keep in mind this is not set in stone and is certainly up for debate, as consensus needs to be reached between the two sites before anything moves forward:


 * 1) The team over there wants to focus exclusively on the game when the sites are merged which, of course, frees the team here to focus on the television series.
 * 2) It is preferable that the admin team over there be included in the leadership here; additionally, it would probably be nice to have the lead admin from over there be a bcrat here in order to have the "game team" represented.
 * 3) There should be some indication on the main page and the navigation that articles on the game exist on the wikia
 * 4) There are no plans to change the look or feel of the site here, at least in general; given that the team being merged already has a look in place for their pages, it might be best to take what they've done and tweak it so it fits with the theme of this site - this will potentially be something that would have to be sandboxed and then agreed upon, unless there's no issue (of course)

That pretty much sums things up. I would be doing the heavy lifting of import/export in order to keep all revision histories intact as much as possible. Smaller changes have to be carried over manually, as well as images and templates. The lead admin over there would likely assist with the latter. I would also be involved in every step of the merger from beginning to end and would be on-hand to answer any questions or solve any issues that might arise.

The obvious benefits of this include this team being able to focus solely on what their passion was in the first place, namely the television series. Another team completely related to their passion - the game - means the best of both worlds. Obviously there would be an increase in traffic here with the redirect alone; but then Telltale is planning a Fan Studio endeavor, which would bump traffic up even more (hopefully) and result in both teams of admins able to potentially benefit from any information from the gaming company... and who knows what else related to GoT they might reveal.

Please let me know what you think at your earliest convenience!

Best regards,

Raylan13 ( talk ) 04:28, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

WiC.net
We're going to have to keep an eye out if Fansided's WiC.net plagiarizes us again in Season 5, as their quota-numbers rise and they run out of ideas.

I've already seen them outright linking to Game of Thrones Wiki....and rerunning WatchersOnTheWall.com news reports!...when it's a slow news day.

Recently, in preparation for Season 5, they made a series of refresher-posts on the "Great Houses of Westeros" -- basically compiled by making a quick read-through of AWOIAF and GoTWiki articles. What I find most offensive is...if these people actually WATCHED the show, they wouldn't NEED to rip off wikis for such basic information. Well, "rip off", at least these aren't verbatim quotes. But they have minor errors which someone actually familiar with the content wouldn't make.

Some of the things this Rowan guy did are just bizarre:

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/02/19/great-houses-of-game-of-thrones/3/

Check out the comments section (which seems to be combined for all of them). He actually mixed up that Arya *doesn't* help "liberate Harrenhal" in the TV version! Must have been reading AWOIAF's page. He then in the comments...tries to cover himself by saying that it was implied that Jaqen killed every single guard in Harrenhal, paving the way for Robb Stark's army to recapture it. Why would Jaqen kill Stark prisoners as well as Lannister guardsmen?!?!? -- they said pretty clearly that Gregor massacred what prisoners they had then withdrew.

He also claims that the "male preference inheritance laws" of Westeros mean that a younger brother inherits ahead of his older brother's daughter. No...that's how the Targaryen rules work. Even in REAL LIFE....he said that Edmure's heir would be "Catelyn's children by female preference, his uncle Brynden by male-preference"....No. That isn't what "male preference" means! Only the Targaryens did it that way, the royal succession laws.

The funniest/saddest part is when he defends some of his wacky decisions with even worse justifications in the comments.

Meanwhile....and I think this reflects much of their "casual viewer mentality"...they're just watching Game of Thrones as the "hot show of the moment" - they could just as easily have done Mad Men or The Walking Dead, but they're not even paying attention and only half-assing it because they're just paid to do it, not independent fansites.

Well, to get to the point: He refers to Joffrey as "Joffrey Lannister-Baratheon" and Tommen as "Tommen Lannister-Baratheon".

Wow.

In the comments, someone pointed out that they don't use double-surnames in Westeros like that. His explanation was that he felt casual viewers would get confused, so he wrote it that way to make it more explicit....yikes. How little attention does someone have to be paying attention to need that? Why cater to the mouth-breathers who say they love "Khaleesi" but have no idea who "Daenerys" is?

BY THAT LOGIC, why not call EVERY child of Eddard and Catelyn that? "Arya Tully-Stark"? "Robb Tully-Stark", etc.?

I am unconcerned, however, in terms of competition: the morons didn't even integrate these little character profiles into their site menu! The only way you would notice them is if you read the original news post! They even have character pages (like a paragraph each) but you wouldn't notice if they didn't link to it.

Again, I am unconcerned: they're paid to do this and they're already undermanned, and they don't know as much as many TV-first fans who just pay attention. We do this because we love it.

Michael Corleone: "I saw a strange thing today. Some Cuban rebels were being arrested. One of them pulled the pin on a grenade. He took himself and the captain of the command with him. Now, soldiers are paid to fight - the rebels aren't."

Hyman Roth: "What does that tell you?"

Michael Corleone: "They could win."

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:13, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

Video Programming Opportunity
Hey there! We're planning an upcoming video about Game of Thrones that we wondered if you'd consider participating in. Let us know if it's something you'd like to do, and we'll get back to you with more information. Thank you for your time! :)
 * http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/xraydeltaone/images/b/b2/Siggy4.png @ (profile)•(talk) 21:14, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

MediaWiki color scheme template
Okay, I finally got onto updating the color scheme of the nav templates, had to ask XD1 for help updating the new color scheme (instead of Blue and Grey (ugh), it's now Wood Brown and Beige - both blue links and black text will show up better against this).

The Appearances/Credits templates needed to be updated by hand because unlike the others they use a grid, but that was easy enough.

Only one that might still need updating is the House information Navbox - it uses three vertical columns so it's different from the others - managed to change the title bar to Wood Brown, but I couldn't get the background to Beige without making an ugly grid pattern, so I left it neutral.

At any rate, writing to inform that the next time we ever change the entire color scheme, the way to do it is by playing with the CSS code on this page: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikia.css

If we remember this, next time we won't go a couple of weeks with the old color scheme in the templates because we don't know how to change it :) --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:57, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Also attempted to update the Wars/Battles/Massacres/Events infobox - template page says it has changed but it isn't showing up yet on actual pages - may take a few minutes to kick in.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:12, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: I fixed the color scheme on the templates for Massacres, Events, Battles, and Wars.

One exception: I don't know why, but the title "War of the Five Kings" is not displaying on that article. the "Name=" tag does work in other war articles such as "Dance of the Dragons", I have no idea why it isn't displaying properly. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:26, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

FixedGonzalo84 (talk) 23:01, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Season 5 Episode Summaries
Hey! When this season starts, will you remove the protection from Season 5 episode synopsis templates? --Gladiatus (talk) 18:08, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

Jaime/Cersei
Okay it took me nearly a year (I was graduating at the time this exploded in the news), but I'm done with my writeup for The Jaime/Cersei sex scene in "Breaker of Chains".

Please read it fully, and on the Talk page tell me if you disagree with anything. It may need some refinement. But we have to say something, people look here for information.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:46, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

terrible writing
Hey!! It wasn't that terrible!!! LOL ;) It was late.. my apologies. 18:50, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Character infobox recoded to be mobile-friendly
Hi Gonzalo. I'm Joe from Wikia. :)

We noticed that Template:Character was broken on the mobile skin, so I just recoded the template to look exactly the same for the desktop skin, while now being mobile-friendly.

Here is a before and after screenshot of the infobox from Varys: before, after.

Since you are the admin that's edited the template over the last couple years, I wanted to let you know about the edit I made. If you use Chrome, the one minor visual difference you'll notice is that the corners are rounded. The template's styling previously had  which only appiles to Firefox. I removed the  part so that it's now   which applies to all browsers. If you don't want the rounded corners, simply remove  from the end of the first line in edit mode.

Let me know if you have any questions, and keep up the great work! JoePlay http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/joeplayground/images/a/a5/WikiaStaff2.png (talk)  19:31, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Meeya
Or whatever her name is... she is actually credited as playing two separate roles in this season. A noblewoman coming up in a later episode, and the prostitute in Ep 1. 02:39, April 14, 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps its the same character or her twin sister... or a Faceless Man... I don't know--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:43, April 14, 2015 (UTC)


 * LOL. We'll leave it how it is for now, and change it once that times comes :) 02:45, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Jaime/Cersei
I need you to review "Version 2.0" of my writeup of this, sooner instead of later, I don't want to put it off until the end of Season 5, but to make it our "official position" and interlink with episode and character articles as soon as the other bureaucrats give it the go-ahead. Please point out anything you feel needs to be changed: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/The_Jaime/Cersei_sex_scene_in_%22Breaker_of_Chains%22

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:52, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Alysanne Targaryen
Hi Gonzalo,

I'm currently creating and editing a page for Alysanne Targaryen for a class project of mine. I will do everything I can to make sure I abide by the Terms and Conditions and formatting of the website, please let me know if there is anything I have made a mistake on. I will be forever in your debt, and a Lannister always pays his debts :)

Swoft - A.k.a. Jason Swift

Swoft (talk) 05:07, April 29, 2015 (UTC)swoft

mainpage slider
Hi Gonzalo,

Any reason why you changed my edits on the mainpage slider? I had permission to edit the last slider from QueenBuffy some time ago. Let me know if there are any issues about the content that was there.

Knakveey (talk) 18:35, May 13, 2015 (UTC)

it loaded fine on mine..

Letting the Admins know
I am soooo tired of writing out message after message about the image policy to users who don't properly upload pictures here. I have created a template, that we can use when telling editors about our policy when it comes to images. ImagePolicyFirstWarning If you see wording that may need to be changed, or anything added- please feel free to make those changes. 18:38, May 19, 2015 (UTC)

Sansa scene
My point is that even if the writers say "well it technically might not be conceptualized as rape to them", simply showing Sansa as afraid of Ramsay (even if they never had sex as they do now) is drastically derailing the character.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:54, May 20, 2015 (UTC)

hi um i might need help with some things

Cat Stark picture
Hey Gonzalo :) I uploaded a better picture for Catelyn's profile because the one she has now is kinda hard to see, and a couple of months ago when I first watched GoT and before I read the books, I had a hard time recognizing the face because the picture was so low quality and dark. Change it if you want, if you don't it's ok, I just think it looks better with this one :D

Catelyn Stark in The Rains of Castamere.jpg

The Dance of Dragons Page
Hi there!

When I tried to make some interlanguage links between the english Game of Thrones Wikia and the german one I saw that this page. The Dance of Dragons is locked for "normal" users and only admins can edit it. Could you as an admin please add " Der Tanz der Drachen (Episode) " on the bottom of the page? Would be awesome, thanks!

Cyanide3 12:15, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

Dance of the Dragons Synopsis
I think it you who edited the synopsis, but I don't know why, because it's the wrong the synopsis. Just so you know.--Mesmermann (talk) 22:13, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

The Night King
Please check out this discussion: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Night%27s_King#UNMERGE

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:07, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Promotion and Giveaway Opportunities
Hi Gonzalo,

I spoke with The Dragon Demands earlier this week, but he suggested I also ask for your opinion.

We are going to do a game code giveaway next week for the Telltale: Game of Thrones series. TDD said it would be cool if we switched from the 4th hub slider to the 1st for the duration of the giveaway ~6/19 and update the community message one time. Cool?

Another thing has come down the pipeline that MAY or MAY NOT actually happen, but I wanted to see if you'd be interested:

We are working with sponsors and partners to place certain content on fan communities.

This content could be, for example, trailers or behind-the-scenes videos and would live in a prominent place on all of the pages of your community. The placement is temporary (~2-4 weeks) and is only done with admin consent. This is a great way to get content that is relevant and interesting to existing fans as well as drive new fans to your Wikia community!

Here is an example of what it would look like. Its the image/banner above the slider.

Again, this isn't something we're going to do for sure, just want to know if you'd be interested.

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me,

Knakveey (talk) 21:26, June 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree with the first but not the second. I think its enough with the "must see videos" we have.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:49, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

Lock pages?
Could you lock the Myrcella Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, and Jon Snow pages? There's an edit war going on over whether they're dead or not that's dragging on.  DRAEVAN13  12:08, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Season 5
You've been on here longer than me and been active on AWOIAF longer than I have. You recommended me for Adminship. You are senior here and I look to you for guidance now:

What are your thoughts on Season 5, specifically the final episode?

I saw Elio and Linda's video review and felt deeply upset.

I did like the Stannis/Bolton "North" storyline, even condensed...until they turned the final battle into a farce, the definition of anti-climactic.

Second...WTF that Dorne subplot? The idea was okay, sending Jaime was okay...I'm talking about severely limited screentime, badly written Sand Snakes, and badly filmed fight scenes - even badly filmed dialogue scenes.

Condensing two books into one season was madness. I'm actually usually forgiving and if this was not Benioff and Weiss's decision but forced on them due to the actor contract problems (which are now fixed)...I can forgive that. They didn't have control over that.

But as Linda said, they either 1- want to make 7 seasons so badly (because they want to leave to work on other projects?) that they knowingly compromised the material, or 2 - genuinely don't recognize that they compromised the material.

I questioned whether to even keep watching the show.

Then part of me realized that if this was the season where they combined two books into one, next season would only be about one "book" of material or so, so I might as well stick around.

These are serious problems and I now consider Season 5, while not without its moments, to be relatively below even Season 2 in overall quality.

The Dorne stuff was awful, and I think most objectively think so...largely just because it had so little time. Not even screentime, but I mean you can tell filming time: it takes time to set up camerawork for fight scenes, they didn't. It takes time to hone good dialogue for the Sand Snakes, they didn't. We know for a fact they only had one week to film in the Alcazar, and they couldn't have many extras or expansive fight scenes in it.

Dorne I think can be...maybe...partially redeemed if they suddenly write it much better next season. What he saw so far, however, was clearly the least prioritized storyline, thrown it at the last minute. Time and resources better spent on already established characters.

But Stannis...yikes. I'd even accept cutting out the Manderlys and Mormonts, the other Northern lords....but it made Stannis look pathetic, instead of a defiant 300 style charge against heavy odds...even if he lost as he did. It was the manner in which they filmed it - truly wrapped up in 2 minutes?

Why even bring so much book 6 material into a show already so condensed?

So I'm swaying back and forth; the day I saw it I thought it was irredeemable. Then the next day I said "we had bad problems in Season 2 also, but recovered". So many plotlines were condensed in "The North" (Boltons/Stannis, but also Sansa, even Brienne). This might not have been 20 episodes worth of material but it was more than 10.

So I'm really shaken and look for your more experienced opinion. What did you think of these problems with "The North" and "Dorne" storylines? Is the show overall truly that badly damaged? Do we stick with it hoping new writers take over, a Frank Darabount situation?

I don't know what the heck to think anymore. Benioff and Weiss "have some 'splaining to do" about these drastic cuts to the North/Stannis...and really, what the heck was going on with Dorne? Even in the limited physical screentime they had it could have been filmed and written better (the same story beats, I mean better dialogue).

Wow. Yet it seems everyone in the media is too excited about Jon Snow dying to notice these other major problems. I don't know.

Well I might as well finish my "to do" list which has been stacking up for over a year.--The Dragon Demands (talk)


 * Truth be told the only thing I liked from the Dornish storyline is Tyene (fanservice and "bad pussy" notwithstanding). But I'm not being objective, Rosabell Laurenti Sellers is, physically speaking, "my type" of girl. Besides that I think the storyline was clumsy, forced, moronic. Nymeria was a useless caricature. Siddigh was wasted, Ellaria became a stereotype.


 * As for the Northern storyline, I think Benioff and Weiss never bothered to understand Stannis. To describe him as being driven by "ambition" shows that they little to no analysis over the text. Tywin was ambitious, Stannis was driven by a zealous obsession with duty. The sacrifice of Shireen was a move by the writers to avoid hatedom from killing him.


 * Truth be told the only thing I liked about this season was Arya, the High Sparrow plotline, and "Hardhome". I'm not gonna give up on the show because I'm kind of invested in it and its not like it has reached the level of suckiness of "Charmed" (which for seasons 5 and part of 6 I only watched because I enjoyed trashing the show at Television Without Pity). I do hope The Winds of Winter gets released before Season 6.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:41, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

Ack, I wrote this pleading when I was still wallowing in depression the week after the finale aired.

I'll still be watching, but I'm upset now. Two books in a single season? If they had no choice I forgive, but did they voluntarily do that because they wanted to "skip the boring stuff"? Or because they wanted to "match the Red Wedding" for a season climax EVERY YEAR?

I am interested in seeing Benioff and Weiss "respond" to any of this...they haven't really given any post-Season 5 in retrospect interviews yet. I believe them when they say they're too busy to come to Sand Diego Comic Con, but still. Please point out if you see any with them responding to Season 5 criticisms (the Dorne one in particular doesn't really have any logical explanations other than just rushed production and sloppiness).

I'll stick around though; if all of the book fans leave in disgust, there will be no one to "keep score" anymore, i.e. point out "Stannis's characterization is nothing like that".

While book six will not affect Season 6 - filming will end before it comes out, even if it comes out by Christmas or January - it would be fun if the book came out in say, March of next year, very publicly, so even the TV readers would quickly buy it and only realized "wow, this season deviated massively from the novel". And hey, maybe I'm wrong and they needed to condense a lot of the Stannis stuff. That is unclear. But the Dorne stuff...wow.

If nothing else we should start viewing this as a "franchise" and hold out for different writers in the Tales of Dunk and Egg prequel.

Ack, I've written on this before. There are three criticisms (Dorne, "the North", and crudely using sexual violence when they run out of ideas) but one of those - the North - has three subpoints, so it's really five:


 * 1 - Dorne was just plain sloppy and rushed. Not the actual idea on paper of sending Jaime there, but pacing, camerawork, dialogue, all felt like a rough draft.
 * 2 - Frequently using sexual assault as a cheap dramatic stunt. No, this is not "being true to the narrative". Just because Gregor Clegane's men rape peasant women a lot doesn't mean you make a 15 minute montage of it. The Sansa thing is a problem unto itself (not the actual assault but diminishing her character arc); but in that case, why have Gilly nearly raped? Just for cheap drama? Or having Meryn beating girls with a stick? (yes he needs to be a pedophile like Raff so Arya can get close enough to kill, but why a stick?)
 * 3 - "The North" in Season 5
 * 3A - Very controversial to condense Sansa Stark with Jeyne Poole. Excluding the sex assault aspect....how does this affect her character arc? It sends it in reverse. They spent so much buildup on "Dark Sansa"...why? If they knew this would have no payoff because they've been planning to condense them since Season 2? This point at least has some counterarguments (the Vale is very separate from the other plots, etc.)...but...combined with the other sex assault problems from Point 2, it turns into a bad pattern. At least they filmed it well and clearly devoted a lot of attention to trying to make it work as best as possible.
 * 3B - Stannis and the Battle of Winterfell were anticlimactic. Why spend so much time building him up as the best military tactician in Westeros only to almost laughably have his army one-sided defeated off-screen? My hope is that this was a fakeout, and that Roose's absence indicates that Ramsay rushed into a needless battle and ended up losing a third of his men or something in a phyrric victory (which combined with indirectly causing Sansa's escape, and news that the Vale is invading and they needed those men, will make Roose so angry at Ramsay that it will make Ramsay kill Roose before he can disinherit him). Even moving up how Shireen dies (maybe there wasn't enough time next season), and cutting out all other Northern lords.....why treat specifically the Battle of Winterfell as so anticlimactic? To play up "the tragedy of Stannis's needless sacrifice of Shireen"? That still doesn't justify it; rather, they shouldn't have sacrificed Shireen in that case. They should have realized that whatever they were going for emotionally, instead it came off as farcical.
 * 3C - Jon Snow's death. His whole storyline was good until specifically the point it intersected or should have intersected with "the North", when Ramsay Bolton sends his threatening letter. Did rewrites affect this or something? They leave Hardhome by ship in episode 8.....where is the fleet in episode 9? Why in episode 9 are they suddenly back at Castle Black, in the middle of the continent far from the coast, yet Thorne lets them in? Then...why does Thorne suddenly take part in stabbing him in the very next episode? If he wanted him dead, why let them through in the first place? This isn't even like Dorne, a low-prioritized storyline....they seem outright proud of this as THE "Red Wedding" or "Tyrion kills Tywin" cliffhanger ending of the season. Yet how little thought was put into the motivation of the men who stab him? Now this can be fixed, if they were just going for shock so they gave no details, but in the very next episode Thorne explains "we decided to kill him after Melisandre said Stannis was defeated, because it means the Boltons will eventually come for Jon, and he lost his big supporter Stannis." Not a great reason, but at least some internal logic. Yikes.

So basically those five things. The Dorne one is the most insulting though, because it isn't even a matter of condensation: just sloppy work in general.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:49, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

user:Hatred101
Please keep an eye out for any editors who may start verbally harassing users or admins. Hatred101 is giving us trouble, and has even harassed me on my other wiki. Please promptly block anybody who fits this behavior, with no warning. Thanks. 19:34, June 17, 2015 (UTC)

War of the Five Kings RE: Wildlings
Why did you remove that section? Given that there were efforts to bring them into the conflict, I think they warrant inclusion. TheUnknown285 (talk) 21:41, June 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * They don't warrant inclusion...yet. Who knows what's happening in Season 6. Yes they connect eventually but....that entire page needs a major overall but it will be a while before I get to it; major task and I have others to get to first.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:24, June 23, 2015 (UTC)

Image policy
I got your message about the misapplied image usage. So what would be the correct way to go about it?

Gotlvr87 (talk) 13:33, July 1, 2015 (UTC)

Interlanguage Links 2.0
Hi there!

Never got an answer from him so I like to contact you in case he was busy. I like to make a cleanup for the interlanguage links and run a bot about them because we have 10 Game of Thrones Wikias and it feels like a patchwork rug because there are some interlanguage links but also sometimes not. I checked all GoT Wikias where the interlanguages Links are missing but I see that on some pages here these are blocked so only admins can edit there and my two questions would be:

1) If you can add on the mainpage of the GoT Wikia those links on the bottom of the page so that the mainpages of the GoT Wikias are linked:

    pt-br:   

2) If you can, when the bot is running, deblock the admins-only pages just for a couple of hours so that the bot can create the links? If that's too difficult or you don't have the time can I have the permission of working on the admin-only pages? As a VSTF I have the administraton-rights, but I don't want to "break" the rules because my powers should be there only in case of spam and vandalism on Wikias.

I would like to have some feedback from your side. Cyanide3 21:52, July 3, 2015 (UTC)

Well, yeah, if the other Bureaucrats are okay with it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:04, July 3, 2015 (UTC)

I'm ok with it as well.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:32, July 4, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you verry much! If you all agree maybe you can give this bot Weas-El-Bot the Bot rights. He's the one who will running through the Game of Thrones Wikias to link all the pages with the other Wikias. Cyanide3 10:05, July 4, 2015 (UTC)

Kingdoms and Kings
User:Simpsonsfan1992 burned through here around the finale adding a lot of stuff I'm fixing now.

Among these he added some "Kingdom" pages we didn't used to have. So now we have both "Kingdom of the North" and "King in the North". We did have a "Kingdom of the Stormlands" page I made a while ago.

How are we going to handle that? Should we have two? More likely the "title" Storm King would be kept short while "Kingdom of the Stormlands" would be longer. Or, we could remove the kingdom page and just have "The Stormlands" (the subdivision of the Seven Kingdoms) and "Storm Kings". Up until now we've been treating "Dorne" as a geographical region synonymous with "Principality of Dorne". I made "Kingdom of the Stormlands" separate because the Durrandon super-kingdom ruled half of Westeros and wasn't really synonymous with their core territories anymore. I'm not sure.

Please check on this, his edits were extensive.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:01, July 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think we should keep separate articles for:


 * The titles (re: Storm King, King in the North/King of Winter, River Kings, King of the Isles and the Riverlands, and so on)
 * The Kingdoms as political entities (the Kingdom of the North, for example, expanded from Winterfell until it encompassed the entire region we know as "the North")
 * The regions

Having said that, I think Dorne should be kept as a single article for the simple reason that there is no mention of a "Principality of Dorne", just "Dorne"--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:21, July 9, 2015 (UTC)

Hi! Im pretty new of this great wiki got page!

I'd like to know how to put links alongside my adds, for example I edited got season 6 cast, including Chapman, Turner and some others...

Some of them are confirmed by their return here ( wintersicoming.net actors in belfast)

But I didnt succeed in putting any links..

Portable Infoboxes
We’re reaching out to a few of the admins our top communities, hoping to get you on board with the migration to the new infobox markup. And we have tools to help!

Why we’re doing this

Simply put: Most current infobox structure translates very poorly to mobile experiences, and indeed any device that doesn’t use desktop-style displays. On desktops and laptops, they often look amazing. The problem is that Wikia’s traffic is trending mobile.

There is an important graph from our forum post about infoboxes a couple weeks back, and I want to share it here as well:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/central/images/c/c3/Wikia_mobile_traffic_growth.jpg

Mobile is the future. Not just for Wikia, but for the web as a whole. Take a look at the recent trends and future growth predictions for mobile traffic - it's staggering.

We partnered with the Wikia community to create this new markup to make sure that your hard work can be displayed on mobile devices (as well as any future technologies) easily and without any new coding conventions. It’ll take some effort up front, to be sure, but we’re here to help, and the work you put in now will pay for itself tenfold in the future.

Tools we’ve designed to ease the process

We’ve enabled two new features on your community. One is a tool for migrating the “old” infobox code to the new markup. It identifies templates on your wikia that look like infobox templates and places a box on the right rail of the template page. When you click the “Generate draft markup” button in this box, it opens a new tab containing a draft of your infobox using the new markup.

The second is a new feature on Special:Insights that will highlight which infoboxes on your wikia have not been migrated to the new infobox markup. It’s fairly intuitive - you can click on the infobox title link itself to see the old markup, or simply click the “Convert!” button on the right, which performs the same action as the “Generate draft markup” button.

This is our help page for the new markup. I’ll help get things rolling by converting a template or two as an example if you’d like me to, as well as watching this post for any questions. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/central/images/f/f1/Pineapple_u86.gif The  P K ( Wall • Guestbook ) http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/central/images/a/ae/Mudkip.png 23:05, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

The Wikia Staff sent a new guy as our point of contact about this, with new test templates. We need to play with this before Season 6 starts: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:The_Dragon_Demands#Portable_Infoboxes -The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:32, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

Arya page
Hey we're not sure what to use as a pagequote for Arya Stark.

Also I think her infobox image should be that cool Braavosi costume she had, instead of the rather banal Faceless Men acolyte robes.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:31, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think her "I am Arya Stark and you are noone" quote is the best quote now, the death list prayer has run its course. As for her image, I agree with the "Cat of the Canals/Lanna" outfit.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:35, July 26, 2015 (UTC

Gender and Sexuality
I'm not quite done yet, but the page is very long. Please start reviewing over the Gender and Sexuality page I've been tinkering with (including the sub-page I made on "Rape"); if you don't want any parts to stay up it won't (I don't want random people who barely contribute to the wiki judging the merit of what I wrote - but I defer to your judgement).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:05, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Jaime/Cersei
You already moved this page so I think you've read it, but please confirm via the talk page if you as a Bureaucrat support this as the "official position" etc, I should have asked you sooner: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Breaker_of_Chains/Jaime-Cersei_sex_scene --The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:03, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

House Reed sigil
Sorry this has taken me a while to get around to - I was all sigiled out for a while... anyway, it's in progress, although it's proving a bit tricky. I've got a new creation method which I'm trying out at the moment, so hopefully it will help!--Ser Patrek (talk) 09:54, September 7, 2015 (UTC)


 * Its okey, take all the time you need.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:57, September 7, 2015 (UTC)

Jazzing up the heraldry
Hey, I'm experimenting at the moment with making 3D heraldry for the wiki: Shields that actually look like shields, and have rusted iron rims, and a weathered wood grain look to them. This could eventually extend to banners that look like they're made of cloth, and maybe an actual flag pole that runs along the top of the infobox, so the banners look like they're hanging off it. What do you think? I've made an example on Roose Bolton's page if you could cast your eye over it quickly. Thanks.--Ser Patrek (talk) 13:52, September 10, 2015 (UTC)

Dance of the Dragons
This requires your attention: Talk:The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling.

Also when you get a chance check over the stuff going on with the Gender and Sexuality article.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:26, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Greyjoys as Lords Paramount
Hey I found a quote from the World of Ice and Fire, see discussion on "Talk:Lord Paramount".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:56, October 6, 2015 (UTC)

NYCC 2015
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Dragon_Demands/Q%26A_at_NYCC_2015_with_Finn_Jones_and_Keisha_Castle-Hughes

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:41, October 20, 2015 (UTC)

TV continuity canon and dialogue errors
"Nameday" is the canon term, though actors have at times said "birthday" on-screen, these are assumed to merely be dialogue errors -- not confirmation that in-universe, "birthday" is a term they use.

Issue comes up on Talk:Rape: "Rapist" is not a term ever used in the novels (I don't think). Thus the one or two times that actors have said "Rapist" in the TV series are taken to be dialogue errors - not up for personal interpretation, but declared dialogue errors until proven otherwise. The fact that a writer and/or actor made an unintentional mistake in one or two episodes should not redefine what is canon and what is not.

Thoughts on this? I await your ruling.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:50, February 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * We can use "raper" and "rapist" as synonims for now.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:35, February 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * Eh, he then said he didn't really have that much of a vested interest in changing it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:39, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox Shield policy
We're going to need to set more clear rules about the shields above infoboxes going forward - there were 3 or more at one point above Loras's to show changing allegiances. Sansa's was also a mess. Cleaned up more now - generally I think there should rarely if ever be more than two. Not sure - need to make sure other admins figure this out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:19, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Character categories
It's going to be a long and laborious overhaul, but eventually we need to update the character categories. My original and too subjective idea was that "Starring" was an artifact of the TV production process, so Loras is still a "Major character" even if the actor isn't starring.

....then a while ago I realized this was all too subjective and editors would keep fighting over it, so we might as well just go by billing status: "Starring" for this starring actors, "Recurring" for anyone in more than one episode, and "Guest" for people who only appear in one episode (though this can be vague as "Lannister guard with no speaking lines #2" and "Maester Cressen" both appear in "one episode").

This needs to be an ongoing task as we go forward, it will take some time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:21, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Ser Patrek
Ser Patrek isn't responding to my e-mails, he stopped editing on December 7th, and now it says his account has been globally disabled. I don't think he was arguing with me or anyone else on here, though he has said he's had trouble with cyber-stalking in the past. Now I'm worried. He's changed his username before, so at the time I just hoped he was switching to something else. I'm not sure how else to contact or confirm what happened.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:37, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Hammerdown Protocol
First Season 6 trailer premieres this Sunday:

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-tease-coming-this-sunday-night/

It may be time to enact the Hammerdown Protocol.

I'll need your firing key.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:06, February 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh boy, the trailer! We have to be ready to fight back vandals and lock down whatever article is targeted. Any article that suffers more than three vandal attacks should be put under level 1 lockdown: prevent new users and anons.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:37, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

A lot of people I know have lost faith in the TV series after Season 5 was so badly condensed. It wasn't all bad, but Dorne and anything touching the North subplots had problems. Also the rushed plot holes of Jon's stabbing (dear god, are they even going to try to make that make sense?)

But I got renewed hope because: 1 - after fears of condensing down to only seven seasons resulted in rushed Season 5, HBO is now openly trying for eight seasons, meaning the speed of adaptation will slow down; 2 - Confirmation that the long delayed Greyjoy and Riverrun subplots will finally be back as a result.

I'm still worried they don't handle women well....apparently genderswapping Jonelle Cerwyn? Ack.

But there are reasons to be optimistic that the rushed pace of Season 5 won't happen again.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:01, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Bastards. It's starting to leak out 3 hours early, and word is that it truly is just a "tease" -- NO new footage! Then why make such a big deal about announcing it in advance?!--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:09, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox heraldry standards
We really need to drop what we're doing and work out standards for infobox heraldry. Ser Patrek worked on this before but with him gone, Ser Shield McShield and Xandaren have different views on what we should do.

I kept putting this off because I knew it would be time consuming, but they're pushing for it now and I can't make them wait any longer.

I'll start reviewing the situation now...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:33, March 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * As I've been trying to explain for the past few days, pretty much all the work on this project has been completed already... at my end at least. The main image shields that are currently uploaded all have the same shape. This was the main area that myself and SSmcS disagreed on. Not because he did didn't like the shape that I was using, he just thought it would save time to simply revert back to the original files, rather than upload new ones. However, as I had already created the new artwork this solution was.. distasteful to me, as I'm sure you can appreciate, as it meant that I would have wasted my time.


 * The only thing left to decide is whether or not to use the small "Shield-Icon" files for the heraldry, or to use the same file as the main image. SSmcS thinks we should do the latter, but I was under the impression that the smaller shields were used for a reason? Anyway, that's really all there is to it. Xanderen (talk) 18:06, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for welcoming me to the wiki. I'd like to speak to you on the chat, if you have the time.

I'm licensed to chill 17:25, March 19, 2016 (UTC)

Castle Cerwyn
Someone moved "Castle Cerwyn" to "Cerwyn". What's the official status on that? I was for "Castle Cerwyn"...but House Hornwood doesn't hold "Hornwood Castle" or "Castle Hornwood", they just call it "Hornwood". Hasn't been used in dialogue before though it might next season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:21, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Major character heraldry changes
Please review this: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User%3AXanderen/Character_heraldry_that_needs_reviewing

There are a few very special cases of major characters that have had many allegiance shifts: Sansa, Theon, Brienne, Loras.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:02, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry update
More extensive discussion taking place on Talk:Heraldry now that I'm catching up with it. Please check back there frequently (I'm still working on it).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:37, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

Timeline
Please check out Talk:Timeline, I've heavily rewritten it into a 3 point breakdown of the major questions regarding the timeline.

The third point is the most important - exactly how fast time has been advancing on the TV series. With reasonably accuracy it's been established that Season 2 was 1 year after Season 1, and Season 4 was one year after Season 2, but how much time advanced in Seasons 4-6? Did the speed of adaptation slow down? If it did they didn't make it clear.

No rival timeline has been proposed, only a call for efforts to be abandoned.

These concerns are not without merit: the TV writers have done an awful job of keeping track of their own internal timeline.

There are three options: 1 - One TV season = one year (child actors age at a normal rate), 2- The writers consciously chose to slow down the pace of adaptation and just didn't make it clear to the audience, 3 - the TV writers are making no attempt to make an accurate timeline, will continue to contradict themselves on numerous points, and it is physically impossible to make a coherent timeline as a result.

Well, weigh in on "Talk:Timeline" I'll defer to your ruling on the matter.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:27, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Westeros.org to continue video reviews in Season 6
Wonderful news:

http://www.westeros.org/Updates/Entry/Our_Game_of_Thrones_Coverage_for_S6

Elio and Linda were deeply rattled by the very condensed Season 5 finale, and pondered abandoning the show entirely.

However, as the months wore on, enough people voiced concerns to them that if they *didn't* stick around to review it, we wouldn't get mature criticial analysis of it anymore, but only the mindless hype machine that automatically likes everything (which makes the praise worthless - it only matters if the good comes with the bad).

"Some of the commentators have argued that its important to have a news/commentary source for the show that isn’t just eating up the hype and praising it no matter what."

So they've decided that Linda will continue to handle the episode by episode reviews in Season 6 -- to make sure things are still guided with a firm hand.

Good news. Good news indeed.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:13, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

Since 2012
Funny thing happened, as I was pondering the wiki moving forward into Season 6. I wondered how many users are still contributing who were also here back in 2012, when we were still setting up basic stuff (I mean we had to create articles on "Meereen", "Slaver's Bay", etc. and had fun picking apart the new HBO Essos map when it came out). Season 2 was early 2012, then in the gap between Seasons 2 and 3, Septemberish 2012 - Februaryish 2013 was the Ch'Vyalthan crisis, that shut is down for a while. Or just the craziness in Season 2 of figuring out all of these new characters and places as the story drastically widened.

So I played around with the "User List" feature in the Admin toolbox. To check for: 1 - Non-Administrators, who 2 - joined up here since 2012, 3 - kept contributing through Season 5/2015, and 4 - have more than 300 edits or so. My logic on that last point being that anyone who amassed less than around 300 edits in four years was editing so infrequently that it was just sporadic visitation during the on-season.

So this list of people (other than current Admins) who even remember the Elder Days are: SagnamiFan, Mesmermann, TargaryenBlood, Carninator, JamesSawyerFord, GrouchMan, Draevan13.

Only seven people. I did a quick-check of anyone with over 100 edits (less thoroughly) but even that only adds another seven people: Mcc1789, Dr. Arzt, Gboy4, Frohas, Grouchman, Arthur88m, Orhan94.

Strange, thinking that these numbers are finite - the "number of people still active who have been here since 2012" will never increase. Wow.

Well, on to Season 6. Heck, if I can I'm going to stay here there a decade of prequel projects.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:48, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Season 6 wiki ratings
I've been crunching the numbers for the wiki's own "ratings" - that "page visits" feature in the Admin toolbar; I try to keep a list of them in that forum thread.

Point is, I usually go by the day immediately after premiere night - after all it's at the end of the day, most people would be reading about it by the next day, which is when we finish our initial notes and writeup anyway, etc. Also because just looking at the numbers the post-day visits are the biggest spike:

For Season 5:
 * April 12 - 1.1 million (premiere night)
 * April 13 - 1.8 million
 * April 14 - (missed)
 * April 15 - 891.5 K

For Season 6:
 * April 24 - 716.9 K (premiere night)
 * April 25 - 1.7 million
 * April 26 - 1.1 million
 * April 27 - 813.6 K

On the whole, therefore, our ratings seem to be slightly down since Season 5, though holding reasonably steady. On the other hand - and I really wish I had the Season 5 April 14 number here - it seems that site visit patterns also shifted: slightly fewer on the immediate day-after, but generally more visits tapering off for a longer period of time over several days.

Generally I think - with some guesswork - that this generally reflects viewing patterns for the TV show itself:


 * 1 - Some people have quite the show entirely due to drastic changes such as Sansa's storyline in Season 5 - I mean we saw the ratings dip that created (artificially improved later by "Hardhome", but the fact remains many people announced they quit).
 * 2 - ....as we saw in other reports, DVR, delayed playback, and streaming services like HBO now mean that not necessarily everyone is watching the show live the night it airs, but delayed a bit over the next few days - generally matching that our numbers still seemed relatively high throughout the week.

I'm still a little worried that we're pulling in 100,000 less people than before - but the season has its ups and downs, we've seen that. Hard to judge from just one episode, need to see all 10 charted out to really get a feel for it.

Frankly, so long as we're regularly pulling in over one million visits on the immediate post-day spike, I think we're good - and we're still at 1.7 million.

Our record high was the post-day wiki visits after the Season 5 finale, "Mother's Mercy", which was up to 3.4 million.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:44, April 29, 2016 (UTC)

Two Pages
I added two pictures... and I am proud of those two! I wish I had HBO (for those who aren't aware, I am a psychology student and I am basically broke lol) and could edit more freely. lol I hope you know, even if I am not around often, I LOVE this Wiki and I am here if you need anything, I will always stop in and check on things! I can always be a mediator lol. You guys are the best! 05:26, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

Hello Gonzalo!
Someone deleted my edit on season 6. I had inserted trivia part in that article, in which I wrote that season 6 finale might be the longest episode ever of GoT. You can see that here on the official site of HBO: http://www.hbo.com/search?type=schedule&focusId=787226

I'd also added that link in references.

It is written that episode 60 of GoT will be 69 minutes long. Maybe I'm wrong and this is not true, but this information still came from official HBO web site.

Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language.

Danedesta! (talk) 20:20, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

"Southwestern hemisphere
1 - A "hemisphere" is a half. I think you mean a "quadrant" or something (I'm not clear on what term would be used for a global quarter).

2 - ...you're short-changing yourself by claiming the "southwestern hemisphere": Columbia, Venezuella, Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana...all of these are north of Ecuador, and thus in the northwestern "hemisphere".

I'd say to just claim the entire southern hemisphere, but User:Lorisa214 is from Australia.

I claim only the Duchy of New York: I am merely first among equals.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:28, May 11, 2016 (UTC)