Board Thread:TV Show Discussion/@comment-5014364-20150620061924/@comment-204.237.0.119-20160222205725

The Dragon Demands wrote: This is a thread for hating on the Dorne subplot in Season 5. Generally held to be the weakest storyline in Season 5, I realized I haven't seen anyone defending it...at all. Even reviewers who liked the finale despite what happened to Stannis...would make jabs about the Dorne subplot.

Here are my views, but please post your own views on this:

Some may say it was a mistake to go to Dorne in Season 5 given that Jaime doesn't do this in the novels, he goes to the Riverlands (he can't be in King's Landing to protect Cersei).

Actually, on paper I think this was a good idea, to send him to Dorne -- it was the execution of these scenes that was bad.

There are several levels to this: at the most extreme, there's a strong argument for "Given limited screentime, why did you try to squeeze in an entirely new location and set of characters, when you could have just sent Jaime to the Riverlands and revisit the Tullys and Freys the casual viewers are already familiar with?"

But even generously allowing "okay, we're going to Dorne this season"....even with the limited amount of screentime we got....even within those confines, the writing quality and fight choreography/direction were awful. Specific dialogue, not plot points.

It's not just a limit of screentime, it's a limit of writing time - a finite resource. They spread themselves too thin and prioritized this least.

"You want a bad girl, but you love the bad p*ssy"....who wrote this? No, this isn't something you wave off with a giggle when it's brought up in an interview (you just know they'll do that)....this is awful stuff.

Fundamentally, the Sand Snakes were written horribly, given awful and poorly thought out fight choreography, and....why are there THREE Sand Snakes when we hardly had time for ONE?!

All of these interviews the actresses thought out their character dynamics and it just doesn't appear on screen.

The fight choreography...I think was limited due to filming in the royal palace of Spain (filming in the Alcazar wasn't worth this, OR, you should have made a side-set for the fight scene -- i.e. film Doran in the Alcazar, and film their fight in a random tavern in the outer city!) They only even had one week to film in the Alcazar.

There were many more character-building Sand Snake scenes we know they cut for time, there are photos of them.

Should we have had three Sand Snakes? Why not Arianne and one Sand Snake? I think it's because they wanted a link to Oberyn.

While I"m on the subject; character assassination of Ellaria. Why not have OBARA be the one pushing for revenge, and Ellaria begging her not to, more or less as in the novels?

Again: Doran, Areo, they were fine...though they hyped us in promo materials that "We introduce Doran Martell this year!" and then...he barely appeared. He has a big speech at the end of the novel and I was stunned when it did not appear in the finale, it was the payoff to the entire season. Even Jaime and Bronn were fine there. Specifically Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Benioff and Weiss never wrote women well, and when they can run with a stereotype of "badass warrior woman" boy do they ever.

What the heck was that Tyene "am I the most beautiful woman in the world"? thing? I can see that they were trying to make witty repartee based on playful taunting or something but....it just kind of falls into place. This feels like a rought draft script handed in at the last minute...which it probably was.

But even given the filming limitations in the fight scene from episode 6 in the royal palace....

....why the heck....I keep coming back to the introduction scene in episode 4, when Obara - played by a greatly skilled actress delivering her lines well, and reciting the exact words Obara says in the novels....turned into a really goofy scene of Obara walking around giving a SOLILOQUY (monologue) to open air?! It was...inexplicably bizarre. Fit into the scene clunky also.

I mean they're on a beach somwhere, there's no physical limitations to filming. Why was this scene "blocked" (choreographed) this way?

The Sand Snakes were better when they were in prison, talking to Bronn, etc. because when there's not much the camerawork can screw up, and you just let these actresses "act", they know what they're doing.

Fundamentally they should have just pushed this back to next season (if they were worried they'd get only 7 seasons, you cut Dorne and the Greyjoys...you don't water them down to the point that they're a laughingstock).

my only consolation is that plausibly, better writing and fight choreography next year might redeem these characters.

What the heck happened to the Dorne subplot?

Obviously time limitations, it was prioritized behind Sansa or Jon Snow but....they hyped this going into the season! Alexander Siddig as Doran was the HIGH POINT of their SDCC 2014 casting announcements! They had VIDEOS, TRAILERS hyping "we're going to Dorne this season!"....what the heck did we even see about Dorne?

They never mentioned the Rhoynar, Nymeria, GEOGRAPHY, major sub-political units and major Houses.

OR THAT THEY FOLLOW EQUAL PRIMOGENITURE.

...we got one mention about the Dornish Sand Steed, good...but notice that it was in an episode Dave Hill wrote, not Benioff and Weiss. Hill is the nice guy who writes the History and Lore featurettes. But come on, only book fans noticed that.

That's one thing I'd want to ask them: how do you think you "introduced Dorne" this year?

You notice how in the production videos Weiss keeps saying "they're a culture of pleasure-seekers?"...well, I think he meant trying to show that visually through set and costuming design being sumptuous....but frankly I think given their track record, instead of our "wow, it's interesting that social mores about sexuality are different in Dorne from the rest of Westeros", they "like" Dorne more in the sense of "they're sex-crazed hedonists and hot pseudo-hispanic Dornish women will get naked at slight provocation!"

Remember when going into this season they said "we always wanted to see Dorne?" -- and they meant that, I mean in season 1 interviews and con reports they've mentioned to people how much they wanted to see Dorne.

It wasn't insulting throughout - the actors were trying really hard, the basic idea in and of itself wasn't terrible - but then it just fizzled out in the season finale. I was expecting so much more.

I got the feeling they just got tired by episode 10, as if it was just whatever they slapped together after Hardhome was done. not to be nosing but first of all i was okay with Jaime being in Dorne (though it will be nice seeing him in the riverlands next season) and second i made a post about which character you want to see get a spin off i already left reply's to my own comments which is sad i do not want that to be the case i want others to reply to it actual other people