Board Thread:TV Show Discussion/@comment-1399600-20160629121258/@comment-1399600-20170305215745

Fenrir51 wrote: Kai200995 wrote: The goal of this discussion was to point out the facts of the political status of House Stark, The King In The North, and Lord of Winterfell titles.

The fact is Jon is a bastard and was still regarded as such during the entire annointment of him as King. That means he cannot inherit his family's entitlements. He was elected as King he did not inherit it. Sansa, as a Stark, was robbed of her claim as Queen but she still inherited and earned her title as Lady of Winterfell; Only a Stark can inherit Winterfell. (The Boltons took the Castle as Wardens of the North not Lords of Winterfell; Sansa child with Tyrion was to inherit Winterfell) The title of King in The North isn't the same as Lord of Winterfell. Technically any noble family or bastard or individual capable of unifying the North (through war or purpose) can be the King in The North; That so happened to be Lords of House Stark until Jon Snow and Sansa, where the titles split for the first time. Jon Snow, a bastard with Stark Blood, united the Northern Houses in the Battle of the Bastards and after. And Sansa, the last known Stark, did the same yet she actually won the war through an alliance. So Sansa is the LoW through right and conquest. Jon is KitN through an election by the Northern Houses.

This is a feudal society, so even kings need land-holdings of their own to set them up alongside their vassals. It would be a bizarre arrangement if Jon was King and Sansa or Bran the reigning Lady/Lord of Winterfell. Winterfell is the ruling seat of the North, which would need to be in the king's own possession, otherwise he's just the ruler in name only. A king without a royal demesne in a society like Westeros would not have the means to receive an income from taxes from the peasantry, to recruit men-at-arms to enforce his rule or protect himself in the event of a rebellion. Not to mention that the lands of Winterfell was the very foundation for the Kingdom of the North, and all of the other important houses owed fealty to the Starks to ensure their own security. The Lordship of Winterfell and the Kingship In the North are closely-tied togther as the kingship of France was to the Countship of Paris, or the Dukedom of Normandy with the Countship of Rouen in Medieval times. I understand why using real life sources may seem plausible but we're talking about the Game of Thrones universe.

As I said before, Robb was | King of the Trident (Riverlands) and ruled from the ruling seat of the Riverlands, Riverrun, but that did not make him Lord of Riverrun*, that title belonged to Edmure Tully. Which parallel to the following; Jon is the King in the North, and rules from the ruling seat of the North, Winterfell, but he is not the Lord of Winterfell*, that's currently Sansa Stark. Sansa was passed over for being the monarch of the entire North, but that did not disinherit her from her seat as LoW.


 * *Even though Robb [the grandson of Hoster Tully and Jon [the bastard and last living son of Ned Stark] both were Kings of the respective regions they weren't next in line for those individual lordships. Despite the fact they can and did rule from their seats.