User talk:Werthead

Thoros of Myr
http://eternal0aranel.tumblr.com/post/26434603378/thoros-of-myr-cast

I don't know what to make of it. It's not what he looks like in my head.--Mesmermann 23:28, July 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Check this out: http://twitter.com/asimaahmad/status/220103162240053248 Curiouser and curiouser.--The Dragon Demands 23:44, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Comic-Con
Greetings! You may already know, but GOT will be involved with Comic-Con this year. Wikia will have a physical presence at the 'Con once again, and we've created this badge:

to remind users of this, and provide them with a link to Comic-Con Wiki. There, we will be updating live for the duration of the event with images, info, and exclusives for those users who are unable to be there in person. Would you be willing to allow this badge on the main page here (hopefully at the top of the right column) until the conclusion of the event? Please hit me up on my TALK PAGE and let me know either way so I can add it, or make a note that you've declined affiliation. You're welcome to add it yourself using the code above, but please drop me a note as well so I can track which wikis are participating. Thank you for your time! :)
 * http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o297/SCOTIMUS76/siggy4.png (profile)•(talk)•(email) 00:55, July 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've added this as it might get us more traffic and doesn't harm the site in any way.--Opark 77 13:41, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Religion articles
Please weigh in on this discussion, Ser: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Great_Stallion#Content. I've been rounding out the religion articles. Should we have separate articles for "The Seven" and "Faith of the Lord of Light", or follow AWOIAF's convention of "Faith of the Seven" (used as an actual term in thee books), and "Lord of Light"? (because "Faith of the Lord of Light" isn't an actual phrase they use). I'm in favor of treating "Great Stallion", "Drowned God", etc. as the de facto main pages for "Dothraki religion" and "Ironborn religion", given the vast amount of overlap that would result (seriously, how much do we have to say about the specific legends and antics of the Drowned God? He fights with the Storm God. That isn't useful for a whole page....wikis are not paper, but we have to think of ease of navigation (I also made a new Religion navigation template including these names). Please weigh in.--The Dragon Demands 00:06, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Map images
Great job on the map images, they are a big improvement to the location articles and very welcome. You're continued effort on them is very much appreciated.--Opark 77 20:59, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Computer game info
Should we make any notes regarding the computer games at all? I thought they were unrelated to the TV series. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Blackwater_Rush?diff=51819&oldid=39203 --The Dragon Demands 01:53, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Casting
Any chance you can come on chat so we can co-ordinate writing articles for new cast members?--Opark 77 22:28, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Apostrophes
Why do you keep using apostrophes as full quotation marks? This should only be done in the case of a quote within a quote. This wiki conforms to standard American English, and unlike British English, regular quotations must be made only with full quotation marks. I've been fixing these whenever I see them. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:14, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ironborn
My apologies, I didn't realize that lowercase "ironborn" was standard; I got it bacwards and thought it was capitalized. I will now enforce the proper lowercase convention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:14, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Stormlands map image
The Stormlands map image needs some adjustment, http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/File_talk:The_Stormlands.png --The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:25, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Images
I'm still finding problematic images from you, including the latest two from today. Please could you take a look at our image policy. For each image that we use we need to ensure that we have the following information on the image page, all of which should be added by the uploader at the point of upload:
 * 1) The source (naming the video clip or episode for screenshots and providing a URL for images from other websites)
 * 2) A description (state what the image shows)
 * 3) A licensing tag ( for screenshots)
 * 4) Appropriate categories (e.g. Category: Image (Valar Morghulis) and Category: Image (Character) for screenshots of characters from "Valar Morghulis", to add categories type )

Please add this information yourself to images that you upload. If you fail to do so I will let you know and nominate the image in question for deletion. I will then review it 1 week later and will be happy if you have added the required information so we can keep it, otherwise I will have to delete it. If you need assistance adding the required information just let me know and I will do my best to help.

I highly recommend working from a template when uploading images. Personally I always copy and paste this for screenshots:

==Summary==

This image is a screencap from "EPISODE." The image is copyrighted by HBO. This image is used with the permission of HBO but on the understanding that it can be removed at any time. The image shows DESCRIPTION.

==Licensing==

Then I only need to fill in the name of the episode and a brief description. For images from other websites I use this:

==Summary==

This is a promotion image of DESCRIPTION from [URL WEBSITE].

==Licensing==

Then I only need to fill in a description, the source and choose a category e.g. Category:Image (Actor).

I've just been through the last months worth of uploaded images. You are still not adding a description or a source to the majority of your uploads. I have tagged the ones I cannot fix on my own for deletion, please can you sort them out. The latest two today don't have licensing tags either.

Please can you say where you get an image from - we can't claim we are making fair use of an image unless we establish that we know who the copyright holder is. Please can you give a URL if they come from another website.

Please can you state what your images show - this allows someone who is not familiar with the content to read the description and work out who or what is in the image, this is especially useful to editors when they are working with galleries and writing captions for images that they did not upload.

I've been asking you to follow the image policy for several months now, I am starting to feel really discouraged by seemingly being ignored. I have archived your talk page in case you have been missing my messages because they are not at the bottom of your talk page.--Opark 77 (talk) 15:51, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

As I said, I was concerned that you have not been reading my messages and that is born out by your suggestion that I last contacted you about this in May.
 * Here are my edits on June 14.
 * Here are my edits from last night.

I am upset that you think I am not showing good form. I think it is reasonable to offer to work with uploaders to add the required information themselves. I have found that I am spending upwards of 8 hours of editing time every month working on our images. I initially tried to do everything myself. I found that it was such a drain on my time resources that I was not contributing what I wanted to the wiki, and was not enjoying the time I volunteered here. With the aim of spending less time working on the site's images I came up with the idea that I would do it for an editor the first time they got it wrong and then show them what I had done so they could replicate that next time. I would then expect them to be able to follow the policy but would be open to helping them if they did not understand what to do.

Where I know that I have made an editor aware of the policy, they have not responded to my message and they are continuing to break the policy then I threaten deletion of their images. Yes I am able to correct some of these images but I do not think it is right for this wiki to rely solely on my time to get the images in the state we want them. I am happy to be the lead editor in curating our images. I am happy to spend more time on it than anyone else does. However, I do want the rest of the community here to try to work with me. I have tried a softly softly approach and have been ignored. I am now trying to be more assertive about images to protect my limited time resources. I can do everything here, but I don't have time to. It is not fair of you to place expectations on me to handle all of our image issues when I am a volunteer just like anyone.

I have been open and polite in my messages. I have invited people to come back to me for help if they need it. I am saying this is wrong and you got it wrong so the onus is on you to fix it. I am happy to help you to fix it. If you are not willing to put the effort into getting it right then I am afraid we can not use it. I don't think that is bad form. I think it is a fair and reasonable way of ensuring a decent standard of image uploading from our contributors while leaving me with enough time to contribute to other areas of the wiki. Have you got a better way of handling this?--Opark 77 (talk) 17:15, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

You can check the history of your talk page to see who edited it and when. That way you don't need to re-read anything and can see exactly what was added. I didn't realise that you weren't aware of this functionality. I regret that my messages failed to reach you. I avoided adding them to the foot of the page because repeating the same header more than once in an article breaks the section linking. In future I will try to be inventive with my topic names so that things go to the foot of your talk page.

That aside I would still appreciate a response about how you would like to handle image policy violations in future. Have you got an alternate approach? Do you still think I was showing bad form?--Opark 77 (talk) 21:30, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words about my contributions.

I don't think it is appropriate or fair to call the Image Policy at present Draconian. It is not prescribing death for any who violate it, it merely asks the uploader to provide four simple pieces of information about the image they are adding. My approach to enforcing the policy is to point out where people have failed to meet these simple requirements, offer help and a one week window to correct them, and then to delete the image if it is still not up to our standard.

I also disagree with your characterisation of requiring four bits of information as constituting a "lengthy form". If you use the cut and paste templates that I have taken the time to provide then it is even less information, because the licensing tag is already in place for you.

Parts of the image policy originated with you. It was you who wrote that you wanted to avoid uploading duplicate images to the wiki. In order to weed out duplicate images it is necessary to appropriately categorize and name the images we have so that they can easily be compared to one another. I have spent hours going through our images to weed out duplicates and to ensure that they are correctly categorized because you asked that we avoid duplicates. Having reached a high standard of image use because of the efforts of myself and others, I think it behooves us as a wiki to have an image policy that maintains that standard, rather than allowing poor (or no) categorization and random image names to eradicate the hard work that has been done.

I am taking sole responsibility for policing the simple image policy that I modified. However, I don't believe that policing the image policy translates into me being left to do all the work on every image that fails to meet the requirements of the policy. I think it should be enough that I rigorously check every image that is uploaded and then enter a dialogue with the uploader where they have failed to meet the requirements of the policy, explaining where they have failed and what they need to do to correct it. If the uploader is not willing to spend further time getting their images up to the standard we require then I think it is reasonable for me to also spend no further time on that image, and to remove it for failing to meet our simple, four piece of information minimum. Nothing deleted from a wiki is ever truly gone, we have a deletion log and anyone with admin rights can restore deleted images where the uploader comes back with good reason to do so.

I am not saying that I don't have time to police the policy. I am saying that I am at the limit of the time I have and therefore will not spend time policing the policy and then doing all the work to correct any violations of the policy. I am happy to go on patrolling new images and discussing images that fail to meet our requirements with the uploader. I object to being told that doing so is bad form. I think I am being reasonable and fair in my approach. Once again I am asking if you have an alternative approach that you would like me to follow?

If you disagree with the image policy then by all means we should start a wider discussion about it. I think the onus is on you to do that because you are the one objecting to it.--Opark 77 (talk) 10:44, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Absence
I am sorry I've been barely active the past week or two, and particularly this weekend. I have been preparing for my sister's wedding (which I have mentioned before). It will last the rest of today, Sunday, and now I must go out the door to leave for the wedding ceremony itself.

If I'm not back, avenge my death.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:00, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Faith of the Seven merge
I merged the content from "the Seven" into "Faith of the Seven"; how does it look? Should we delete "The Seven"? Or are all of the extra images of the Seven (which I added in a Gallery) too clunky, thus warranting a separate page? I do hope later seasons show us more artwork of the Seven from the insides of septs and such. But for now, I don't know. At any rate, this is what it would look like if all the content from "the Seven" were indeed merged. I leave the decision to you, ser.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:47, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Good Game Review
Hi Werthead--

I'm the new gaming guy inside Wikia, and I noticed your review of the Game of Thrones RPG. I loved it - very well written with some good arguments made. This is a bit outside of the Game of Thrones wiki, but I'm wondering if you're interested in doing more long-form pieces for Wikia in the games category.

What are those pieces, you ask? Um, I have no idea as of yet. But there are a bunch of big games coming out over the next few months, and I'm sure we could figure something out.

Ping me if you're interested and, regardless, I loved the GOT RPG review. Hope all is well!

George lizzunchbox

All roads lead to King's Landing
Your input would be greatly valued, Ser: Particularly, I'm confused about where exactly the Battle of the Trident occurred, the crossings of the River Road or of the Kingsroad, and which of those two crossings is thus the "Ruby Ford". Moreover, why would the rebel army, after coming from the Battle of the Bells in the Riverlands, be coming from the north side of the Trident to the ford? My functional guess is that they were already in the process of retreating north to join with their Stark and Arryn allies after Ashford...but those allies already met them at Stony Sept. Maybe they pulled back north of the Trident to consolidate? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:17, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I see. Well, I think that we can logically conclude that the Kingsroad crossing is the Ruby Ford, on account of the fact that when the royal/Stark party is heading from Winterfell to King's Landing via the King's Road, Arya leaves within walking distance to check out the "Ruby Ford" for all the rubies. In and of itself that seems to fit. The bigger question is why the rebel army would be on the north side of the river after mostly joining up at the Battle of the Bells; but its already been strongly implied that Robert wanted to retreat north to consolidate his strength. I mean the war lasted over a year between Gulltown and when the Siege of Storms End was lifted; maybe months were spent as each side consolidated after the Bells, with Rhaegar raising the Crownlands army joined by the Dornish, while the rebels consolidated north of the Trident. Though there are some questions about the location of the Battle of the Green Fork. Well, I'm not going to worry about the battle things too much as we have Lands of Ice and Fire coming up eventually. This should at least answer the roads questions. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:30, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Concept art
I'm not sure how or if we can use screenshots of this concept art ( of the White Walkers, or link to it, or perhaps make an article about the concept artist, I'm not sure.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:58, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yi Ti
Please remind me; in which episode is Yi Ti mentioned?


 * Yi Ti is mentiond in the companion book Inside HBO's Game of Thrones, which is a canon resource for the Wiki to use since it was written by producer-writer Bryan Cogman.--Werthead (talk) 17:26, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hello. I'm a brazilian journalist writing a piece about the speculations surrounding G.R.R.M'S The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Could I send you a couple of questions on the subject? Thanks a lot!

My email is jfranciscobotelho@yahoo.com.br.

José Francisco Botelho – Superinteressante Magazine.

Steelshanks
​Bran has never been referred to as "Brandon", yet he's listed as such. Under that precedent I think the article should return to its previous name.Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:25, December 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that might be excessive in Bran's case, given how prevalent "Brandon" is in established Stark names like "Bran/Brandon the Builder" etc.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:47, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Grand Maester
Regarding Grand Maester; is the Grand Maester the head of the order of Maesters, much as the High Septon is head of the Faith of the Seven? Or is the ruling body the assembled Conclave of Archmaesters? Was there a Grand Maester before the Targaryen Conquest, or was it specifically created for the Red Keep and king on the Iron Throne? While we're on the subject, am I correct in assuming that literally no indication has been given in the books about the origins and development of the maesters? My guess is that this has something to do with the subplot about how the maesters are trying to make a world without magic, based on science and reason; that their origins have some plot relevance. Suffice to say, my assumption was that they are a creation of the Andals, brought over in the Andal Invasion, but even this I'm not sure on. I'm going to fix up the Maesters page but I really need you to double-check it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:49, January 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed; indeed, I kind of assumed (well, hoped) that we will be finding out more about the Maesters in World of Ice and Fire; and given that it will give us the definitive answers in a year or so, I'm content with just tabling the issue. Anyway, I did a major revamp of the Maesters page, please double-check (I don't mean to shove work onto others, I mean word of admins is final, so if my attempts don't match standards I hope someone else can fix them up; but I like to think I get the ball rolling).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:57, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Formal vote for banning needs your attention
I've started a formal vote to ban Ch'Vyalthan:. I have assembled a long list of evidence, but please read through all of it. I started the vote last Tuesday, so it should be due next Tuesday, but he's really not getting the message and is binge-editing even more. I think we at least need the other (active) admins to weigh in on the matter. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:09, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention, but two questions about your response:


 * Late in the day, but I agree. I haven't been as active day-to-day as in the past recently, as other people have been doing a great job getting on with things. If I'd know about this, I'd have contributed sooner. What is more concerning is this pattern of behaviour recurring on the ASoIaF Wikia, which is going to have to be addressed there as well.

1 - Does this mean you favor a permanent ban, not just a one month ban? (see subheading "blocking" on the ban vote page, where I just raised this question).

2 - What pattern of behavior over on the ASOIAF wikia? I'm aware that he's been posting there but didn't know how horrendous it was. We started noticing that, possibly due to Wiki-Addiction in the past 3-4 weeks when (due to Christmas break) more of us had time to respond to Ch'Vyalthan's antics, when we began to block, revise, or revert his crazy editing, he'd apparently burn off his excess energy, his excess compulsion to edit, by spending time over on the ASOIAF Wikia...even as Gonzalo84 was directly ordering him to immediately clean up editing messes he'd created. I'm not aware of specifics, however, I was going to suggest that you use your admin powers over on ASOIAF wikia to ban him from there as well, because A - from what I saw, his work wasn't that great there, and B - to prevent him from repositioning himself there, possibly leading to an ugly confrontation down the road. He needs to be out, away from anything online Game of Thrones wiki related.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:37, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have gone over to ASoIaF wikia and noticed that, indeed, Ch'vyalthan's work there is just as bad as his activity here.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:57, January 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * This matter still needs attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:41, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Has a decision been reached on this permanent banning? (Forum:Formal request to permanently ban Ch'vyalthan).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:18, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia Alliances
Hello Werthead!

First off, thanks for participating in the Wikia Wide Fantasy Fellowship! We're bringing that web ring to a close, as you may have noticed. However, the event was such a success that we want to launch another opportunity to tie wiki communities closer together and promote all your wonderful content!

There are actually three alliances to choose from: Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and Heroes! All are broadly defined, so your wiki may fit. Check out the Alliance Page for more details and fill out the Choose Your Alliance Page to sign up!

Best, Jorge (profile)•(talk) 00:17, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Summer Islands and Sothoryos
I added the Summer Islands to the Sothoryos template and added the Sothoryos navbox to the Summer Islands; technically they're sort of like the Azores or Canary Islands, far out into the sea and not quite part of any continent. However, I think we should loosely consider them as part of Sothoryos on the wiki because: 1 - culturally/ethnically, the inhabitants of both the Summer Islands and Sothoryos are notably dark-skinned, and thus not really like Westeros or Essos, 2 - Having received my copy of The Lands of Ice and Fire, we can confirm that the northernmost of the Summer Islands is sort of equidistant from Westeros and Essos, while the southern end is also equidistant from Sothoryos. It's roughly equidistant from all three continents. However, if we associate it with no continent at all, it will be more difficult for TV-first readers to find (a book-first fan might encounter "Summer Islands" in text and look it up; but a TV-first fan going through this wiki has to stumble across it, if we're lucky). Thus it makes more sense to associate the Summer Islands with one of the three continents instead of leaving them isolated, and Sothoryos makes the most sense out of the three. What do you think, ser?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:42, February 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * What do we do about Ibben or Great Moraq... I think those should be considered "indenpendent" islands.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:39, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, much as Iceland is lumped in with Europe, I'd put Ibben with Essos: seeing as the Ibbenese also have colonies along the north shore of Essos. Real-life "continents" are often based on tectonic plates and fault lines, though in the age of discovery or even ancient times this was often arbitrary. Where did Aristotle think "Africa" ended and "Asia" began? Sothoryos and Ibben aside...I have no frelling idea how to handle Great Moraq. Is it considerd part of Essos, Sothoryos, or possibly neither? Other than that the Stone Cow of Faros is there (which would imply it is urbanized and not uninhabited like the Isle of Cedars), we have no real information on the place. This is of course presuming that Season 3's Viewer's Guide map will be updated to reflect The Lands of Ice and Fire. I checked internet archive, and the new viewer's guide last season only went up within a week's time of the premiere. And again, my bigger concern is for TV-first fans who might not know what they're looking for, so we should put these things into existing templates instead of isolating them, for ease of access.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:51, February 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay then. So the decision is: the Summer Islands are independent of any continent, Great Moraq isn't in the TV series yet so we shouldn't waste time on it, and Ibben should probably be part of Essos.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:09, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Season 2 deleted scenes
The Season 2 box set apparently includes 4 deleted scenes; Varys and Littlefinger after Blackwater, Loras and Margaery as Loras mourns Renly's death, Sandor asking "little bird" Sansa to sing, and Doreah killing Irri. How should we handle these deleted scenes? We've already made note of the Doreah scene, and I think that a it stands we consider it "non-canonical" (as it wasn't in the books, isn't in a finished episode, and wildly out of character). The SanSan scene didn't really add much that was "new" though it incorporated a bit more of that book subplot (more of a nod; they've turned Sansa into just a victim, not planning escape, though I understand time constraints limited this); Varys and Littlefinger doesn't really add much either; I mean it's good acting but it's kind of a retread of earlier stuff (maybe they could move it to the Season 3 premiere?). But out of all four, the one with the Tyrells is a real shame that it wasn't in a finished episode: we actually see Margaery and Loras interacting as siblings, which we barely saw before in Season 2, plus actually following through on Loras mourning Renly (I don't think Margaery was being condescending, just that as in the finished episode when Littlefinger comes in, she isn't trying to belittle Loras' pain, just pointing out that they're in danger and must think quickly to plan their next move). Enjoyable to show (if my hopeful interpretation is true) that the Tyrells have none of the internal rivalries in the Lannisters or Baratheons (or even the Starks). I enjoyed it most just because it was starting to show plot dynamics centering around groups of characters or other major Houses other than the Starks and Lannisters, i.e. when we get scenes just about the Greyjoys; much as the books start out focusing on the Starks and Lannisters, but gradually widens to become more complex and show other Houses with their own agendas and even their own narrative POV (i.e. the Martells have no particular stake in the Starks). So the point is I feel bad that this Tyrell scene was simply deleted; is there any way we can put it in an article? It doesn't violate continuity, I think it was just cut for time; Memory Alpha often puts info from deleted scene into the core text of a character article, but in a separate italicized out-of-universe paragraph explaining "this was from a deleted scene".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:28, February 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree these should be added, along with the proper deleted scene tag.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:55, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

TidyNetwork in-text advertisements
I'm noticing a lot of in-text linked advertisements for something called TidyNetwork - is this some sort of new ad program by Wikia, or a virus in my computer? If so, how should I address this? Google search is proving unreliable.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:59, February 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, wait, these "TidyNetwork" in-text ad links are even appearing on messageboards, it appears to be my browser/computer. I'm not sure of how to remove this; do you know of any trusted removal tools?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:04, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Vandals Is Coming
With Season 3 just weeks away, the amount of vandals will surely increase. Are we going to take special measures, or we'll just cleanup after each vandalism or spamming like last year?. Keep in mind that last year we suffered a massive vandal attack that took several hours to repair. At the very least I think we should elevate The Dragon Demands to admin so he can help us weed out and cleanup these interventions.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:19, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

New Layout
Also, with the new dragon-shadow poster already published I think we should adapt the wiki layout.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:19, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Affiliates
Hello! With Game of Thrones coming back so soon, how would you feel about starting up an Affiliates program on this wiki to get more traffic and visitors? It is a great site and we could showcase it a bit more by getting word out to other wikis and external websites so people can see all the hard work you and other admins have put into it! Affiliating with other sites can bring more traffic from external websites which would benefit the wiki in the long run.

For examples on how the affiliate program works, check out the Hunger Games Wiki and Shadowhunters Wiki! It would be set up in exactly the same format with a link on the navigation bar for people to see. Please let me know if you are interested in this and I will start reaching out to other sites!

Grace 00:48, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

wait. how did you send me a message

are you on, you just sent me a message, or was it a bot. I put the huge spoilet on robs page

Layout
I am currently working with the Wikia Staff to spruce up the Wiki to Season 3 of GoT. 18:09, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Pre-emptive Locking
I've already had to ban someone today for Red Wedding vandalism. While we have some vandalism now and again for things like "What Dany does in Season 3", possibly even "how Jaime gets injured in Season 3" (we'll have to keep an eye on that one in particular)...nothing, oh but nothing, can match the drive with which vandals will come out of the woodwork to post spoilers related to the Red Wedding. It's the single most shocking event in the series (arguably more than Ned dying, given how sudden it was, and in the sheer scale of it) But this isn't just a future possibility; we've already seen, time and again, since Season 1 that the vandals feel utterly compelled to come onto this wiki to spoil this...now it's almost upon us.

To this end, I propose that we lock the following articles from Anonymous editing immediately:


 * Robb Stark
 * Catelyn Stark
 * Grey Wind
 * Direwolves
 * Walder Frey
 * Roose Bolton
 * The Twins

And if vandals create new accounts simply for the sake of adding such things we may have to upgrade the lock, but we'll wait until it comes to that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:53, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have gone ahead and locked the mentioned articles, and House Frey as well. New and unregistered users won't be able to edit them until we see fit. --Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:05, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Color scheme
I had prepared a new color scheme for the wiki in preparation for season 3, since this black and orange was set up for Season 2. Once the new layout is available I'll set it up.Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:03, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you think of the new color scheme?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia front page House game?
Given that Ch'Vyalthan shut is down for three months (over Christmas Break no less, when we have the most possible free time to work), the Season 3 premiere is only 26 days away, yet we still need to heavily revise and edit Season 1 and to an extent Season 2. We didn't "finish" many of these things, the few of us who stayed in the off-season were overburdened with work.

This is not a forum, it is a wiki. A dedicated, serious attempt to make a mature, professional encyclopedic guide to Game of Thrones. It is not an imageboard.

As I said, we are currently facing our "nightmare scenario" of barely 26 days to go, yet a massive backlog of work. Under 10 regulars are producing this "actual work" while we keep getting flybys on blogs which produce nothing of substance....and serve to distract from actual contributions to the wiki itself.

Who is User:Porterfield, who has now inserted some sort of Wikia House contest onto our front page? We didn't ask for this, it's a distraction, and it shoved Mance Rayder off the front page.

He shouldn't be able to do this without consulting us. Did he consult you before doing this? Making it a blog post would be one thing, I don't support having it on our front page. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:41, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Starter Guide Video
Hey there, I created a video that's a recap of seasons 1 and 2 using stills (creative commons) and GOT acoustic cover music. I have a draft of it and I'd love to show you and get your feedback/input as we're interested in putting it up on this wiki. I could skype it to you, my skype is peter.kalmbach1

Lemme know!

Peter 23:36, March 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * HBO makes quite useful season recap and refresher videos.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:13, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Small world
Hi Werthead. I couldn't help but notice that you live in Colchester. I'm originally from Brightlingsea myself. It's a small world:) 17:55, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Cersei and Robert's child
I was going over "The Kingsroad" again: I remembered that a change from the books was that Cersei said she actually had a black-haired boy by Robert, during the first year of her marriage when she honestly thought she might be able to make it work out. I think this was done to try to humanize Cersei into more of a three dimensional character (admittedly, this might just be because it is more difficult in the change from book to screen to convey character nuance; i.e. removing Catelyn's "it should have been you" line to Jon Snow, which even GRRM said was wildly out of character to underscore her grief - this wouldn't come across well in a TV episode, in which everything gets condensed) -- thus, "Cersei outright had an abortion when she got pregnant by Robert" from the books, might be taken as too strong. I'm not too upset, I understand that adaptation condensation is problematic for conveying shades of character nuance. Anyway, I always remembered this as a "stillborn" child, but rewatching the episode, Cersei makes it clear that he actually lived for some amount of time; he was alive, but died of a fever. This is a fairly big change for the TV continuity: we normally wouldn't put stillbirths in family trees, or have say, wiki-pages about them, but wouldn't a new royal child warrant an entry and place in the family tree? Problem is we don't have a name to use. Did it even survive to be named on its "nameday"...mere hours later? What fever works that fast? How should we approach this? Way back when "The Kingsroad" aired the wiki had bigger things to set up, and for a long time I thought it was a stillbirth, but now that it's "an infant that died of a fever in Cersei's first year of marriage", I'm not sure if we should make something for that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:54, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Hello from Wikia!
We noticed all the great work you've been doing on the Game of Thrones wiki and I was wondering you'd be interested in a brief Skype chat this week. We are working on a couple of programs that I think might be of interest to you and I'd love your thoughts. Please let me know if you're interested and we can find a time. Thanks!

Cshannon (talk) 20:10, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Irri actress' reason for leaving the show
Check out the Irri page; there was always some confusion about exactly why the actress had to leave; I thought it was something to do with her EU visa, but details were murky. This seems important enough, and sensitive enough, of a topic that I think it needs your executive attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:17, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Macumba
In "Lord Snow" Robb remarks that Old Nan once told him that the sky is blue because "the whole world is inside the eye of a giant named Macumba". Is this worth even having an article for? It's not in the books.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:57, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Starter Guide Video
Hi again, here's a link to the video I made - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aJyqsxbv0 Please check it out, I'd love to put it up in a blog post on the wiki!

Peter 19:34, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Season 2 quiz
Season 2 quiz coming, just a heads-up...
 * http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/xraydeltaone/images/b/b2/Siggy4.png @ (profile)•(talk)•(email) 21:49, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

CestWhat
I realize this will take much time, but please read the discussions on the Talk page of User:CestWhat, start to finish. There are times when you're supposed to realize that it's time to walk away, and pass the problem on for a superior's deliberation instead of overreacting. This is one of those times. I have other work to get onto for Season 3 so I'm going to leave that alone and follow whatever decision you have.

Basic problem is CestWhat being adamant about separating book from TV continuity, even in the face of counter-intuitive situations (i.e. remember months ago when there was that big debate over if Rodrik Greyjoy died at Seagard or King's Landing, based on a stray comment in the Viewer's Guide?). Apparently the in-episode guide will generically say that Robb is in "the Riverlands" in Season 2, even when they reference locations from the Westerlands in on-screen dialogue....CestWhat adamantly waves this aside as that Robb's camp was "a day's ride" from the Crag...this his army rode to the Crag from Riverrun in a day, then rode back. Theon, in Winterfell...the other smegging side of the continent...tells Yara that "Robb went to the Riverlands"...this is just him speaking loosely (Robb went to Riverrun at first). Later dialogue where the Lannister war council says he's "north of Ashemark"? CestWhat waves this away as bad intelligence.

He frequently resorts to saying that he "heard in an interview" that the TV show condensed it so Robb is in the Riverlands, not the Westerlands. Possible, but he has no idea where that supposed interview is, has put no effort into finding it (he moved on to wasting my time with the soundtrack, see below), and I think he's just selectively remembering what he wants.

In and of itself this would just be picking over guide material --- meanwhile, I think that the Irri page needed to stress that "just because Doreah kills Irri in a deleted scene doesn't necessarily mean she killed her off-screen officially, the scene was deleted"....again, CestWhat feels this is me pushing a books-first agenda, when it's really just common sense; people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Doreah personally killed Irri, if they hadn't seen it in a deleted scene. I just left a message urging caution.

Meanwhile, as we're all racing around to get ready for Season 3, he found a relic article on "Main Title" and insisted we waste time doing a write-up for it. I told him that between "Title credits" and "Season 1 Soundtrack" is where such material should go, why make a third page? And, that if there was music info, it should start out on "Season 1 Soundtrack" and only be branched out later. Then he started insisting he knew musical themes and melody schemes about it ("it's a waltz, that means it's about a cyclical story!") which is heavily original research, not links to statements by the composer about leitmotifs.

Moving along, that "Guide to Characters Significantly Changed Between Books and TV series" I've been tinkering with isn't perfect, but on the talk page we got into a protracted argument about it....until he ultimately stated that he wasn't even worried about Talisa-controversy....but that the very idea of pointing out "Asha Greyjoy was renamed to Yara to avoid similarity to Osha, even though ironically Asha Greyjoy is a much more important character" etc. The very idea of pointing out "differences between books and series" seems controversial to him.

That, and in the past couple of days he's just generically been challenging various decisions by admins; the concept that "no means no" with utter finality hasn't occurred to him. Reverting edits Admins reverted back, that kind of thing.

Finally, he even linked to a youtube clip of a scene between Robert and Cersei, on a talk page...then adamantly insisted that he had linked to "an article" (like Vulture or something), not posting a direct link.

He's also been making frequent spelling mistakes; when I've called him on this, he bluntly said that he noticed "the Admins are the kind of people who are on top of that sort of thing"....expecting us to waste time acting as his cleanup crew.

In short, CestWhat has proven to be a handful. I personally want to use the youtube clip incident (combined with general misbehavior and arguing with admins) as a shallow and cynical excuse to throw him off the wiki. But as such unilateral action may prove controversial, I'm passing the judgement on to you rather than act hastily. Personally, this guy questioning many of our basic decisions isn't something I need during the flurry of work surrounding the Season 3 premiere. It's all there on his talk page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:44, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Knights and Nobility
Are knights considered nobility under the law? That is, even a "landed knight" is not a "lord" and thus does not have the power of justice. Even so, does even a hedge knight, or knighted landless sellsword, technically possess the benefits of a noble-born under the law? (i.e. the right to demand trial by combat, which apparently the smallfolk do not have). --The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:52, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe they actually do have a right to invoke it, but, having little skill at arms or noone to champion them they do not actually do.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:24, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Inactive Admins
Good evening Werthead. The Dragon Demands and I were discussing the procedure/protocol to take on Admins who have been inactive for quite some time. We figured we should bring it to you. For example, User:LordofOnions is about 2 years inactive and User:KarinS is a year this month. What is the time limit for an Admin who doesn't contribute, to lose their Admin rights? We were curious. Hope you enjoyed the premiere!! 03:09, April 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * This remains a concern.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:12, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

"Talisa Stark"
What are we supposed to do about characters who marry during the course of the series? We haven't (and shouldn't) used "Cersei Baratheon" because no one ever calls her that (though the article mentions this at the start). Margaery married Renly but it's also not used, so I'd stick with "Margaery Tyrell" (particularly for the sake of TV-first fans who have trouble keeping House allegiances straight). However, the HBO Viewer's Guide now calls her "Talisa Stark", and to be blunt, the idea that she would be associated with the Maegyr triarchs of Volantis was absurd, no one knows who the heck the Maegyrs are, and on the principle of "helping noobs keep the house allegiances straight", should we change it to Talisa Stark?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:20, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Kingsguards
Without a "Rainbow Guard" in th TV series, I've just been using a "Renly's Kingsguard" subsection on the "Kingsguard" page. I also thought it increased visibility. But last episode established that Daenerys has a "Queensgard". So should we split those off, to make a separate "Queensguard" page? What would we title the page for Renly? Just "Renly's Kingsguard?" (I hope that a subsequent episode will have Brienne retroactively tell Jaime that she was a member of his "Rainbow Guard", but I doubt it will happen). Further questions: Why doesn't Stannis have a Kingsguard? It's odd that no one even comments on it; Robb and Balon don't because their regions don't have knights (and they're only seceding, not actively claiming the throne). This late into the books, no one comments on it. I thought it might be because the Lord of Light religion isn't as into that, but knights still serve Stannis; or is it just because in total contrast to Renly, he doesn't fixate on pomp and ceremony?

Second question: is "Queensgard" a term that Daenerys made up, or is that what the Kingsguard would formally be known as under a female monarch? There simply hasn't been a Ruling Queen before; my hope is that the upcoming novella by GRRM will reveal if Rhaenyra Targaryen had her own "Queensgard".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:39, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Princes in the Tower
I don't know how much the "public consciousness" in England is actively aware of the Princes in the Tower. Most American viewers probably wouldn't recognize this - except anyone educated enough to have seen a production of Richard III. The "man on the street" wouldn't get this. Given that the series is loosely inspired by the War of the Roses, I have to ask: would people in England think that Williem Lannister and Tion Frey are partially influenced by the Princes in the Tower? I see an echo of it there.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:53, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Io9 and the Pilot episode script
A report on Io9.com says that a leaked copy of the script for the pilot episode is circulating around the internet: http://io9.com/how-different-was-the-unaired-pilot-of-game-of-thrones-473593778

Of course, even io9 stresses that even if it is real, it might only be one snapshot-view of the writing process, i.e. not even the final shooting script used for the pilot episode, only one out of a series of numerous heavy revisions.

Moreover, the io9.com article linked to our own article on the pilot episode.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:07, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Making Game of Thrones
Good production info on the latest Making Game of Thrones blog update:. It turns out the production team made only one ship prop (I think), so the Balerion (ship) that Daenerys appears on in episode 1 of Season 3 is a re-use of that prop, and they filmed that part at its mooring in Northern Ireland - thus the only scene in Season 3 that Dany filmed in Northern Ireland and not Morocco (at first I thought this was her first Northern Ireland scene, but I quickly remembered that the Dothraki Sea scenes were filmed in Northern Ireland as well, only a few shots were in Malta). My question is, they said it was "on fire" during Blackwater - is it a re-use of Black Betha, or Fury? (Fury wasn't "on fire" though; another of the Fury-class dromonds? Were the other ships on fire in that scene a re-use of the Black Betha or Fury prop-ships? Or was there only one prop ship which pulled double-duty for Black Betha and Fury, with minor set redressing?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:48, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Skinner
Wait, how do we know that "Skinner" actually is the book character "Skinner"? Apparently he's just credited as "Master Torturer", and now he's dead, unlike Skinner in the books, so maybe someone else is going to be "Skinner"?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:11, April 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I made that assumption based on the fact that Theon remembers Skinner flaying his finger and the Torturer putting the flaying knife right below his fingernail. Just move it and delete "Skinner"--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:39, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Confirmation on Jaehaerys II
Bryan Cogman answered some Q&A over on WinterIsComing.net, answered my question directly: http://winteriscoming.net/2013/04/ask-a-got-writer-bryan-cogman-on-the-writing-process-robb-and-talisa-and-renlys-peach

So yes, Jaehaerys II has been removed from the TV continuity (as you said, like Ultimate Marvel continuity). It's not as if I was particularly attached to Jaehaerys II...so much as this alters any potential prequel series about "Tales of Dunk and Egg", which will have to explain how a generally "good" character like Aegon V ended up having a son like the Mad King. Moreover, his answer was too concise; we still don't know how the Baratheons relate to the Targaryens, as if Jaehaerys II is omitted, I mean his whole generation omitted, then what of his sister who marred a Baratheon?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:11, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Recommending Adminship
I would like to recommend that The Boy Who Cried Direwolf is made an Admin. He has gone above and beyond the normal/everyday editor and proven himself to be a great user on the GoT Wiki. He has also been a user of distinction. With all the spammers/trollers, we could use an Admin like him. Just thought I'd give it a try :) 18:21, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would also strongly support making the Bastard of Bolton an Administrator.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:10, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * GONZALO (draws sword): THE BOY WHO CRIED DIREWOLF IN THE NORTH!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:46, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm happy we'll have a House Bolton supporter to balance out (or replace) the proliferation of Stark supporters. Death to the dogs and cats of the Usurper.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:27, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Go drink wildfire LOL.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:42, April 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * ....well played, ser.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:44, April 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Done :) --Werthead (talk) 12:51, April 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Woah, somehow I missed this cozy little huddle:) I'm really flattered, thank you all: Buffy for the recommendation, and Dragon, Gonzalo, and Werthead for the support. I'll do my best.--The Boy Who Cried Direwolf white.pngDirewolf sig.png 05:50, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Featured article
We haven't been regularly updating our featured articles in a while. I realized that our front page still has Osha on it, which isn't really good as she doesn't do much in Season 3. My suggestion off the top of my head would be to change it to Free Folk.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:15, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was just about to change it- I was updating the entire page. I think it was Free Folk recently. What about "Giants"? Also, why is my little crown showing up in the feed every time my signature is used? Grrr 05:20, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Selyse's three stillborn sons
I'm not sure how to handle the addition that Selyse named three of her stillborn sons. AWOIAF would usually just make a note of this on the parent's page. At the least, I think it's a mistake to put it in the family tree; they were stillborn, those normally aren't included in the family tree, the Baratheon family tree template is already HUGE and cluttered, and putting in not one but three slots for three separate stillborn sons wouldn't greatly benefit navigation because no one would have a great need to look those up.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:08, April 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, I wouldn't put them on the family tree. There's not much point. A note on Stannis and Selyse's pages should be enough.--Werthead (talk) 18:19, April 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * In AWoIaF, even stillborn offspring or infants that died very young are mentioned in family trees--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:05, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well it's using up a lot of space on the alreay-cramped Baratheon family tree. Our family trees have photos in them so they're much larger than those on AWOIAF. That, and they need to be easy to use for casual TV-fans. I'd advocate removing these three stillborn sons entirely from the family tree. At least, instead of having three separate infoboxes, can the tree be shortened to a single box that says "three stillborn sons; see Selyse" - much as the Robert part of the tree has a composite box for "many bastards; see Robert"?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:50, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Black Walder or Walder Rivers?
The official information was that Tim Plester would portray Black Walder, yet the viewers guide for "The Climb" states its Walder Rivers. Since you have the contacts could you please confirm?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:46, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Pixie Le Knot
Yikes, the actual Pixie Le Knot joined the wiki and posted up some screencaps; she confirmed her identity in her twitter feed; http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:PixieLeKnot#The_real_Pixie_Le_Knot -- I'm not sure how we're supposed to handle official cast and crew dropping in on here; you're the Founder of the Wiki, so I figured you'd need to know.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:22, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Theon
Book spoilers question:

Something which is starting to baffle me is...in the books...why did Ramsay Snow become so fixated on Theon Greyjoy, of all people? I understand that he enjoys sadistically torturing people - why not some random peasant? Why Theon? I mean, the simple logistics involved with devoting that much time and effort into torturing him - doesn't Ramsay do anything else? Or is he literally sitting around for hours every day wondering how he can specifically torture Theon? In which case...what is it about Theon that "set him off"? Is Theon somehow insulting to him? On a certain level, the most horrifying thing is the utter randomness of it. Of course, as Stannis finally pointed out later on, I'm not afraid of Ramsay: he has won no battles. Any idiot can tear the wings off a fly he's captured. The Bastard can be ruthless to those he has power over, but he's basically Joffrey without the fear of violence; he doesn't "do" anything, other than basic betrayals...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:58, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Absence due to Britain trip
I'm going on a trip to Britain for the next week starting today, so I will miss tonight's episode and be unable to update until I return next Monday, the night of Memorial Day; thankfully they're taking next week off, so I should be able to catch up on editing before...the events of episode 9. But I have barely been able to edit for episodes 6 and 7 as it stands (I was at least able to watch them, and make some notes, but not writeup full summaries). I'll be starting in Scotland then taking the train down to London, where I'll check out Dover castle. Problem is that my area of study is northern France, not England (part of why I sarcastically mock English things is simply medieval department humor; I'm into France, therefore Philip II Augustus is the hero of the story and John Lackland is the bad guy). Figures that I just missed the current season of Doctor Who.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Talisa
Anyway, when you can, please check out Talk:Talisa Stark; the "Talisa is a spy" theory is increasingly looking plausible. That youtube video pointing things out about this was a little over-the-top, but I realized that I was practically ignoring her earlier scenes in season 2 because I disliked them so much; on closer inspection, stuff like jokingly saying she is a Lannister spy when Robb asks what letter she's writing back in Season 2 sounds like a hint; or, that she's just trying way too hard to present herself as "I'm a foreigner who knows nothing about Westeros!" (she knows where Lannisport is, but claims she cannot find Winterfell on a map? (okay, she was in the Westerlands at the time, maybe she'd know the biggest local city in the region, but still). Really, all it would amount to is "we condensed Jeyne Westerling with her mother Sybell Spicer" - Jeyne's reaction to things hasn't really been given any focus in the past two books. Surprisingly plausible. What really clinched it was when David J. Peterson started acting shifty about what exactly Talisa was writing in her letter (the inside the episode guide shows the whole thing but it's written in Valyrian). The other thing I realized is they said that things would happen later in the season that "would even shock book fans", but nothing has happened yet which would particularly surprise book fans (yeah Ros died, but that wasn't that much of a game-changer, and "changing the books" albeit book-fans wouldn't know it was coming). This may ultimately be the explanation behind all of the baffling changes to her character, and more importantly, that the writers have been surprisingly silent on why exactly they made these changes; the answer they always give is "we needed to show what Robb was doing", but they avoided 1 - Why is she now from Volantis? 2 - why is she now a walking fantasy stereotype "healer-woman who speaks truth to power"? If it's all an act, that means her cliched performance was *supposed* to sound fake. Didn't Robb ever pause to question her background? Or that Volantene nobles are usually blondes?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Problems with CestWhat and sockpuppets
Gonzalo84 and I agree that this has become a major problem warranting your attention:

http://vstf.wikia.com/wiki/Report:Users_and_IPs_needing_checked?oldid=25909

User:CestWhat was banned in late March but for the past three months has been coming back onto the wiki under a bewildering array of sockpuppet accounts - TWENTY sockpuppets at last count. She's not being deterred. At the least, we need to get Wikia to ban her global account as punishment for this; but even so, we're going to need an ip range block for her accounts or something.

Worse, she isn't just editing regular articles; the giveaway is that she's obsessed with templates, family trees, and redirects - things that don't normally show up on the "recent edits" list; even template edits often don't show up on the advanced "recent edits" tab; or, rather than replacing image files with new ones she wants, i.e. "MyrcellaSeason1" replaced with "MyrcellaWhatIsDeadMayNeverDie", she was smart enough to insert images she personally wanted by "updating" the original image files instead of creating new ones (which is harder to detect).

This has become a MAJOR distraction. She gets a new account every 3-4 days. Our best attempt so far has been to delete ALL future contributions she makes, even entirely beneficial or positive ones, simply to discourage her from coming back.

The situation isn't getting better and has reached the point where it needs serious attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:46, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yet another one today: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User:Florenting --The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:13, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

"From this moment on... There will be no further reprisals against civilians. This was stupid. Impotence. Comrades... If a fox stole your chickens... Would you slaughter your pig because he saw the fox? No. You would hunt the fox... You would find where it lives and destroy it! And how do we do this? Become a fox."

I got an e-mail back from our friends at Wikia:


 * Hello,


 * Thank you for contacting Wikia. I've blocked two of the IP addresses used by this vandal, disabling all edits (logged-in and anonymous) from them. I have also disabled the majority of the vandal's accounts, and will be disabling the rest later today. If they manage to evade these bans, please let us know as soon as possible and we will look into further methods of prevention.


 * Regards,
 * Daniel S.
 * Wikia Community Support

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:17, June 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * At last!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:15, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Issues raised by the Red Wedding
There are some major categorization issues which need addressing following the Red Wedding:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:How_to_handle_post-Red_Wedding_Great_Houses

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:War_of_the_Five_Kings#"The_End"_of_the_War

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:01, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Lord of Light vs R'hllor
Need you to weigh in on this, ser: Talk:R'hllor.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:06, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

New Licensed Wikia Video
Hey Werthead,

I am writing to give you some exciting news - Wikia Video has recently received some fresh videos for the Game of Thrones wiki. Many of the videos embedded on wikis come from sites like YouTube and often become unavailable when they are removed or taken down for copyright violations there. To help provide a reliable and legal option, Wikia has licensed thousands of videos for use on your wikis from several content partners. These are all found in Wikia Video. They are viewable worldwide and Wikia has the full license for these videos, which means your wiki can use them anywhere you like.

Through a quick search, I found this set of videos for the Game of Thrones Wiki. Please let me know if you need any help adding them to your community, or if you have feedback on the videos. We are working hard to improve the content and tools for adding videos, so let me know your thoughts or if you have any questions.

Nick 17:20, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed template.
Hello.

I Hope this isnt to bold of me, but i have created a set of templates im hoping the GOT wiki would be-able to use. I was speaking with The Dragon Demands, but he has just now informed me that i was speaking to the wrong person and that i should speak to you. If i had known that, i would have gone to you first.

Anyway, I understand that you have your own admin template, and that it gets the job done, but i think this one would be a slight improvement. I know i dont edit here (and most of my edits have apparently be bad), but im hoping that these templates will be of some help to you. I understand you may not use these, but i thought it would be better to ask then to assume. User:Cheatcodechamp/Sandbox

Thank you for your time, and happy editing-Cheatcodechamp (talk) 01:32, August 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thats good enough for me, i know there isnt a guarantee, it would be stupid to think otherwise. Since i doubt me messaging every admin here to look at the template would come off as me spamming them all, ill leave how the templates are handled and judged to you guys. Thanks and happy editing.-Cheatcodechamp (talk) 15:26, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Twitter
I forgot that this Wiki has an official twitter channel. It hasn't been updated in almost a year, but it would be good for site promotion. Can you share the password with the other Administrators so we can make better use of it?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:45, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Dragon Demands
I can't be quiet any longer. Nearly every time I look at a User talk edit Dragon makes, I see something like this: Punjabiknight's talk page:

''"Last and final warning", eh? You're not in a position to give warnings now that I have your head symbolically mounted on a spike on my userpage.

Yes, my intention was to insult you, and I continue'' to insult you. I am so brazenly confident in my ability to destroy you at this point that for god's sake, I'm openly mounting your head on a spike on my userpage. I need "dare" nothing.''

''You haven't contributed since a full year ago. On top of this, most of your edits were fixated on Ygritte, only Ygritte. This obsessive fixation on the pretty red-head really crossed a line at some point. This wiki does not exist to enable your need to masturbate to Rose Leslie's photos. Further, you never truly obeyed the rules to write in proper American English: you persisted in defending sloppy, improper use of British English.''

Your continued existence offends me.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:11, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

This rudeness is utterly unnecessary and completely unbefiting of an Admin, especially when most of the people he's rude to are much more polite than he is. Not a single Admin is this hostile, even when confronted with the worst of trolls, yet they manage to keep the wiki running smoothly. Why can't Dragon? Why is someone so rude permitted to continue as an Admin? I have pointed out to him how unnecessary his mannerism is, yet he rebuffs me with the same McGarnigle line from The Simpsons, which is ridiculous since he's not a cop on mean streets, he's an Admin on a wiki site. Insults and immediate hostility is to be expected of trolls and kids arguing in chatspeak, not people who are in charge.

I know I'm not an Admin, and my opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight. But come on, he doesn't even try to hide it anymore and will fly off the rail on his first comments with certain users. Can he at the bare minimum be civil? An Admin shouldn't act like a troll. Thank you for your consideration. DRAEVAN13 23:17, August 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Draevan13...I made those final comments on PunjabiKnight's account as I was permanently banning him. There is no need to be polite to uncooperative users whom I am permanently throwing off the wiki. "being much more polite than he is" - PK wasn't being more polite than I am, you only need look at the comments he made (which I quoted as I banned him) that he himself was making taunts and idle threats; issuing "final warnings" when he had no right to, vandalizing my own UserPage...and I have to tell you, vandalizing my userpage is a line that if crossed, makes me very riled up.


 * "Most of the other Admins aren't this rude yet manage to keep the trolls in check" -- Draevan...I'm the one doing most of the banning. I have been actively banning most of the trolls and problematic users on this wiki, and you only need look through the ban logs to confirm that. Megatrolls such as LovelyChrys? *Ch'Vyalthan*? The recent war against mega-troll CestWhat? All nearly shut down this wiki and I personally spearheaded the efforts to have them all banned; CestWhat in particular was rough and I had to stay on Wikia's staff until her global account got banned.


 * Moreover, I point out that Draevan conveniently left out the first half of what I posted on PunjabiKnight's talk page, explaining exactly why I was banning him. He only quoted the part where I pronounced sentence. PunjabiKnight was an ass who vandalized my userpage, didn't understand how wikis work, then left without contributing further. I don't regret removing him: he was a fanboy who obsessed about Ygritte, vandalized my userpage, and gave out orders he had no right to give. By the time I banned him he hadn't even edited on this wiki for over a full year, including missing Season 3 entirely. He didn't even contribute much in the first place.


 * I have been harsh, because I get results, damn it.


 * Draevan it is easy for you to judge when you don't have to deal with the landslide of trolling attacks a wiki for a popular TV series gets. I have pursued a hard line on trolls as an ideology: I've seen wikis torn apart because admins weren't willing to ban. Even I wanted to try to "reform" Ch'Vyalthan and look what happened; when we tried to "gently coax" him to reform, he ignored our efforts at toleration.


 * Ideologically, I believe in making examples of the worst trolls and incompetent users: much as Tywin Lannister made an example of House Reyne. Hence why I keep a running list of particularly bad trolls whom I've banned on my userpage ("Heads. Spikes. Walls"). This message of "do not screw with the GoT Wiki Admins" has proven popular enough that other Admins Gonzalo84 and TheBoyWhoCriedDirewolf have copied it, so you can't just point the finger at me.


 * Despite frequently criticizing my methods, however, note that I have never threatened you, Draevan; you're a hard worker who makes substantial contributions. You "get results".


 * That being said, as you've noticed I took a leave of absence (allegedly) after we finally got CestWhat banned. I'm facing a lot of In Real Life career problems on top of this and my thesis has all kinds of trouble: the stress of handling CestWhat's thirty sockpuppet handles combined with real life stress wasn't easy. That was back in June when I was feeling out of sorts - which is also when I made those comments on PunjabiKnight's banned page.


 * So yes, things were pretty frustrating back in June, but now we're in mid-August. About late July I realized just how frustrated I'd become from CestWhat's attacks and needed to step back from the urge to see trolling everywhere (given that CestWhat was coming back under dozens of assumed names, editing regularly until we realized it was her).


 * In short, Draevan, I've kept this wiki running smoothly, by being vigilant about trolling, and being strict with uncooperative new editors - specifically because I want to prevent the rise of the next Ch'Vyalthan. I have maintained Order, and I did what I had to do. The other Admins rejoiced when I got CestWhat globally banned: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:The_Dragon_Demands#The_Pest_is_gone - I didn't try to beg CestWhat to behave properly. A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place.


 * For long stretches of time Gonzalo84, QueenBuffy, TheBoyWhoCriedDirewolf, and I have been overburdened with work from Season 3. Being overburdened leads to such frustrations and low tolerance for those unwilling to get with the program and play nice. If you feel we are overtaxed, I'm of half a mind to agree. In which case, my suggestion is to promote Mesmermann and Greater Good to Administratorship, to help the rest of us keep a handle on things and decrease the overall workload.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:44, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not arguing with your results. I'm arguing with your methods.
 * How is it that on all the wikis I visit such as Fallout wiki, Mass Effect wiki, Jericho wiki, Elder Scrolls wiki, and many others, I don't see any Admins being as rude and hostile as you, and yet their wikis all run smoothly. How are their Admins able to do the job while being polite and civil while you can't seem to go a week without posting a completely unnecessary rant like you did on Punjabiknight's page? I've seen much worse than him on other wikis, yet they are dealt with without resorting to insults and hostility. You're the one and only Admin I've seen who does this. If all the others can do their job without being "McGarnigle", you can too. That's my point. What you do is unnecessary. The alternative to what you do isn't necessarily "begging". If someone is a troll to you, you don't act like he does. If you lower yourself to the level of the people you ban, you're no better than they are. Especially when no other Admins act like you do, yet this wiki ran fine before you showed up. DRAEVAN13 Targaryen.JPG 02:34, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't want to fight with you on this, Draevan. Yes, the ranting got unnecessary at times but I was overburdened with trying to keep everything together. I honestly see no reason why I should have been more "polite" to PunjabiKnight given that I was announcing his permanent ban at the time. Yes, other wikis particularly Mass Effect Wiki are quite scrupulous about removing edits and throwing people off in order to maintain a higher standard.


 * You could have addressed these concerns personally and I would have agreed; instead you complained directly to Werthead. That being said, yeah, the rough patch is over and I want to ease up on things. June was a madhouse.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:43, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * And considering the message the Wikia manager Brandon Rhea left on your wall, I'm not the only person thinking this. DRAEVAN13 Targaryen.JPG 02:39, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Draevan, Brandon Rhea voiced his concerns because we locked down the wiki to try to draw attention to how big of a problem CestWhat was becoming. I honestly believe that if I hadn't drawn attention to CestWhat through such a massive lockdown, Wikia might not have actively pursued globally blocking her IP addresses and accounts. Things worked as planned, given that we were fighting a troll who made over thirty sockpuppet accounts, and who was clever enough to mess with Templates so they wouldn't show up in the Recent Changes tab. Gonzalo84 also went along with this lockdown at the time; the Admins needed to take extreme measures. It was my intention to attract the attention of Wikia staff so they'd finally help us deal with the CestWhat problem, and they did.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:47, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not referring Brandon's views on the "Plan R", I'm referring to what he said about your comments. To quote what he put on your talk page:
 * " Additionally, your comments saying “CHOKE ON YOUR OWN POISON” are highly inappropriate. Please refrain from saying that again."
 * And why would I try to talk to you about it again? I tried twice before and you just brushed it off with the "McGarnigle" quote. So I took it a step higher.
 * I'm not saying you should be a goody two-shoes or an angel. But how about being civil? How about not insulting and/or mocking? If all the other Admins can do it, then you can too. That's all I'm asking. DRAEVAN13 Targaryen.JPG 02:55, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * In that case, I will say...dealing with CestWhat's attacks at the end of Season 3 was very rough, and I'm sorry that this frustration drove me to being uncivil at times. Yes, I do honestly promise to be more civil in the future now that these attacks are behind us. I'd rather not fight about this. There is a massive amount of work remaining to be done and both of our time would be better devoted on other things. You weren't in my place and didn't have to face all of this firsthand. I'm sorry if I've upset you. I stand by my banning decisions; some of the comments I made to "departing" banned users were not civil, and I should cut down on that. On a separate tangent...you honestly don't like McGarnigle?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:01, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not that I don't like McGarnigle, it's that he has a very good reason for being harsh, i.e a cop on mean streets with his life on the line every day will, understandably, be harsh. The way you used him in the comparison is, in my opinion, not apt to your situation. DRAEVAN13 Targaryen.JPG 03:12, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I didn't want to outright come and say this, but I will. Comments such as the PunjabiKnight banning goodbye were made around June, the same time that Season 3's influx was at its height, and CestWhat's sockpuppet attacks were at their height. On top of this...due to several upstanding circumstances, in June at the end of Spring semester, I basically dropped out of school and I'm just finishing up my late thesis at this point to get a token degree, and ever since I've been shopping around for new schools (there are no medieval jobs now and PhD programs are drying up like a desert). Needless to say this made me more than a little loopy for about a month or so. After I finally got rid of CestWhat I realized my frustration was brimming over so I allegedly took a "wiki break" as I say on my userpage (yet I keep coming back to fill in culture things...) So I was pretty nuts about things in June, but things have gotten under control now. This was combined with the pressure of large-scale troll attacks and in general, I do think that my strict "do not screw with this wiki" readiness to ban has done a fairly good job of maintaining Order. I haven't particularly ranted at anyone in the past month or so and I would like to keep it that way: "civil". Tensions were running high in June due to events both on and off the wiki. I understand your concerns, but June was a pretty "low ebb" for me and at the time it made me feel better to extensively lambast those I was banning at the time. That was two months ago, this is now. I actually considered posting an apology about all of the shouting when I started editing a lot again a week ago, but on second thought didn't because I thought it would only drag up old wounds from two months ago. Can we move forward, civily? June was a very loopy time for me and I'd rather not use it as the single picture of my overall activity on this wiki.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:16, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Draevan: I understand where you're coming from, and agree with some of what you've said, but I think labelling the Dragon as "the only" admin who does this is unfair/inaccurate. I myself can, and have in the past "flown of the handle" with users, and yes, there are sometimes mitigating circumstances where someone who wouldn't usually behave in such a way does, and comes to regret it later.

I think it's important here to bear in mind Wikia's "Terms of Use" when deciding weather or not an admin's behaviour is truly unacceptable, and I think that the Dragon (while rude at times) generally falls on the right side of the law in this matter. Not to say that this is always the case... unfortunately there have been occasions where he has crossed the line; the most recent being this interaction with Tia Serena. I think/hope that you, Dragon, realise that calling her a "slag" was unacceptable, and a direct violation of Wikia's terms of use regarding "abusive/ malicious communications". However that being said, I was also unnecessarily rude to her in the same message... like I said, mitigating circumstances... we were both angry with her, and went too far.

I think the bottom line here is that there needs to be greater communication between users and admins (something we would all benefit from). Draevan, your concerns are perfectly valid, and you deserve to have them addressed in a serious manner without being handed the same Simpsons reference. At the same time you need to bear in mind that the daily running/management of this massive site falls on the shoulders of five people, and I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the Dragon does the vast majority of this. So, yes, tempers do flare (especially when a season of the show is running) and heads do roll as a result of this; sometimes deservedly... sometimes not... I think a little more patience from all parties would be a good thing (and I count myself in this).

And Dragon, you must bear in mind that violating the terms of use in the way that you have (Tia Serena) is a serious matter; not just for you, but for the whole community. Yes, Wikia can strip you of your admin status, but it reflects badly on us as a whole, and discourages people from editing here.

I think I've said enough.

Peace out!-- 10:32, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, you explained this will and even-handedly. Sorry, things were getting out of hand back in June (oh...for the record I usually use fictional derogatory words and curse words because I dislike using real ones. "Slag" was from Transformers).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:29, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Regarding the Dragon, I stand by the Boy's opinion. Users like Ch'vyalthan, CestWhat, Celtic-Oranje have gotten under ours nerves and we need to be patient to differentiate people that just require a little guidance to get use to our enviroment and those that should be kept away from here.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:03, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Dragon, why are you telling Admins I said I don't think you should be an Admin? That's not what I said here, please don't twist my words. What I said was you should be civil when talking with users, to not do what you did on Punjabiknight or Tia's talk page. I never said you shouldn't be an Admin, just that I think you need to change your behavior. DRAEVAN13 Targaryen.JPG 21:03, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh...I honestly misconstrued what you were saying. Things are pretty down on my end at the moment and I'm always expecting the worst, sorry about that. Well, yes, I wasn't very civil in June because things were pretty nuts but I have been (or at least tried to be) since. Also I've tried to alleviate the situation by conferring with the other Admins to get Greater Good set up as an Admin so each of us doesn't have to shoulder so much of the workload. Anyway yes, I've been sufficiently cowed, I'll keep a wrap on that in the future (though, like the other Admins or Mass Effect Wiki, I still don't think effort should be wasted on trying to "rehabilitate" those not helping, but you yourself said you were more concerned with my manner). Alright then.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:09, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Greater good for admin

 * I have begun a vote to make Greater Good an admin. Your input and vote would be appreciated. Forum:Greater_good_for_Admin.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:14, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Language map
I can't draw very well but I added this map to Languages: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/File:Language_map.png If it can be improved on please change it as seems best.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:40, August 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Your map is better than the crude one I set up. One point: should "Ghiscari" get its own color? Because for all intents and purposes it is explicitly stated to be a dead language. Elements of the old Ghiscari language were absorbed by the Low Valyrian used in Slaver's Bay, i.e. basic words like for "mother" (Mhysa), but that isn't the actual language. I'd...compare it to how the Celtic language "Gaulish" died out when Latin was imposed on France, and you'd historically point to "Gaulish" influence to explain why French is different from Italian, but a distinct "Gaulish" language didn't exist anymore. So I'm not sure if Ghiscari should be considered separately from Low Valyrian = particularly given that both Peterson and on-air dialogue ("you speak Valyrian?!") refer to the language of Slaver's Bay as "Valyrian". I have no idea what to do for Skagos; I think the...implication, is that they speak Common Tongue now, but they just have a lot of words left over from Old Tongue. I'd keep it using Common Tongue colors.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:57, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

House affiliation
Out of blind curiosity, what is your House affiliation?

So far among the Admins we've got:


 * QueenBuffy - Lannister
 * Opark77 - Stark
 * Gonzalo84 - Stark
 * The Boy Who Cried Direwolf - Bolton
 * The Dragon Demands - Targaryen
 * Greater Good - Greyjoy

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:36, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Tommen recast?!?!
Ser, the shit has just hit the proverbial fan. Rumors abound that Tommen Baratheon may be recast for Season 4....using Dean-Charles Chapman, who played Tommen's first cousin Martyn Lannister in Season 3! This requires immediate attention and alertness for more reports...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:43, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

NOT A DRILL: More recasting news - Daario recast
This is not a frakking drill: Hollywood Reporter says that Michiel Huisman is actually replacing Ed Skrein as Daario Naharis. http://winteriscoming.net/2013/08/treme-actor-joins-the-cast/ Repeat: Daario Naharis allegedly recast. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:31, August 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Now Hollywood Reporter says it CONFIRMS that Daario Naharis has been recast: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-books-treme-alum-616705 --The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:33, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

GREGOR "THE MOUNTAIN THAT RIDES" CLEGANE RECAST
And the hits just keep on coming: http://winteriscoming.net/2013/08/mountain-recast/

They've recast him with Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, 6 foot 9 inch tall "Strongest Man in Iceland".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:40, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Noble Houses categorization
Should Noble Houses be categorized under "Characters" or under "Culture & Society"?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:21, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Social groups, culture, society... not characters.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:57, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

"Institutes" and "Organizations"
Seems a little redundant (Though all "institutes" are organizations but not every organization is an institute). Shouldn't it be "institutions". --Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:59, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Been that way for a while but we had bigger concerns. I think we should merge them both into just "Organizations".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:22, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Regions template acting weird
The regions template I made doesn't appear when you click on "view" or "edit" - but it is displaying normally otherwise. I don't know why. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/The_Crownlands#References --The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:57, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

This series is amazing, that is all.

Doctor Malfatto (talk) 19:27, October 7, 2013 (UTC)Doctor_Malfatto

Hi

Quick question  - I'm new in and was trying to edit a misspelling of an actor's name.

It's also the info box that appears on the actor's page

Where are the edits for those?

Cheers

Chris

​Drofidnas (talk) 16:17, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Hello. I was taking a look at the wiki, and I realised that it doesn't have a "Character Appearances" article. Was it because you admins decided not to have one, or can I create one? --PSalf (talk) 01:05, October 12, 2013 (UTC)

Book of Hodor
I've created the Book of Hodor. For a while you can find it here:

https://db.tt/KvWeSkym

Cheers,

Z2n0` (talk) 10:46, November 4, 2013 (UTC)Zeno`


 * The novelty of that wore off really fast. And mental disability is no laughing matter.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:17, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

Octavia Alexandru's role
Red alert, ser. How do we handle such massive spoiler casting? http://winteriscoming.net/2013/11/octavia-alexandrus-role-revealed/ --The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:34, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Season 3 histories & lore speculation
I've been speculating on what we might get in the "histories and lore" this year in the Season 3 special features. Dare we hope for a House Florent? Would an explanation of Jaehaerys I and the Nightfort fit better in a Targaryen video (i.e. narrated by Barristan) or in a Night's Watch video?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:46, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

Licensed Video Swap
Hola, my name is Nic and I'm a member of the Wikia Community Development team. Recently our Special:LicensedVideoSwap tool has been updated with a list of new content for your wiki. For more information on this, please view here. If you would like assistance in swapping these videos, feel free to ask. - Wagnike2 (talk) 20:00, November 21, 2013 (UTC)