Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-4708902-20160726013945/@comment-5308269-20160921222711

BigBadBruin343 wrote:

I never stated that Jon wasn't dumb during the Battle of the Bastards, he was. I just don't think he's the only one to blame. Sansa should have accepted Littlefinger's offer in the first place, giving her and Jon the forces they needed to rally the other houses to their side. And latter, when she does take Littlefinger up on his offer, she doesn't even bother telling Jon! And Jon wasn't wrong in wanting to attack soon, winter did come just a few days after they attacked. Jon was worried about winter storms arriving.

I never said that the only reason that the Northen Lords picked Jon over Sansa (a trueborn daughter) was because he's a warrior. It is one of the clear reasons they picked him though. Again, not the only one.

Bran isn't a leader, nor is Sansa, Jon is. That's what the Northern Lords need, hell, that's what the country needs. I find it hard to belive that all these lords, who pledged themselves to Jon, due IN PART to him being a leader and a warrior, would ditch him for this cripple who clearly is just as impulsive as Jon is. I mean, it is Bran's falt that Summer, Leaf (and the rest of the Childern), The Three Eyed Raven, and Hodor are all dead, it's becuase of Bran. If Bran hadn't plugged into the matrix, they would still be safe in that cave.

So if the Northern Lords had a say, they'd say don't bother control the more fertile Riverlands, let's just rule the North? The North has tried to set up an conquest of the Vale in the past, during the Rape of Three Sisters. They clearly don't mind ruling the south if they can.

From what I understand about the Wall's magic, is that a dead person can cross through, but an active wight cannot. I always thought that the dead brought through, and reanimate as wights after they've passed. In the books it makes it clear that WIGHTS can't pass through, but just dead things can. There is no excuse for Sansa to keep vital information from the men commanding her army, but she didn't make Jon Snow run yards ahead of his own army and forget his role as a general. And as their general, he was responsible for the lives of each of the men under his command, and none of their deaths contributed to the gain of a tactical advantage, so don't give me this shit about the winter storms being the reason he needed to conclude the campaign against Ramsay. That is NOT a reason to abandon your battlefield strategy. Had he stuckto the damn plan, he just might have lost fewer men than he did.

You never said that Jon being a warrior was the only reason he was king, but you maintained it was the most important reason. Actually, his filial relationship with Ned is the only reason he was considered. Being a reputable warrior is a bonus in their eyes, but if it was a legitimate reason to make someone their king, then their laws of succession would be that of the Dothraki.

Bran is a leader. He took charge of Winterfell in his brother's absence, despite his own wishes. He asserted his dominance in the room when Ser Rodrik Cassel needed men to relieve Torrhen's Square from Ironborn attackers. He stopped two grown women from tearing into each other by sheer force of personality, despite being twelve years old and a cripple. He puts himself out for others. And as he's a nobleman's son who lives within a socially-stratified feudal society, he was trained from childhood to be a leader. When Ned took Bran to see his first execution of a Night's Watch deserter in the pilot episode, that was meant to be part of Bran's education in command and administration, Because Ned expected Bran to be one of his older brother's lieutenants and command his minor holdfasts for him, so he would have to personally dispense justice. And even if you find it "hard to believe" the Northern lords would ditch Jon for Bran Stark, just keep in mind that not one of these Northern lords like Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover or little Lyanna Mormont have ever earned their titles and responsibilities through merit. Everyone of those people have what they have through birth, so why would Bran be any different?

As for Bran's part in the deaths of the Raven, Hodor Summer the direwolf and the Children of the Forest, all of that could have been prevented by the Three-eyed Raven. The 3ER was a greenseer, and experienced  greenseers are supposed to see into the future. I don't believe for a minute that the guy who took Bran to the moment when Hodor got mentally traumatized did not know the reasons leading up to it. The 3ER could have warned Bran in specific details not to go greenseeing on his own, and that the Night King was also a greenseer, but he didn't. He didn't because Bran was fated to do what he did. Bran had to escape from that cave. And had the Three-eyed Raven warned Bran of the exact consequences of his actions, before they happened, then Bran may have heeded him, and remained in that cave forever, which. And what is the point of Bran learning to be a greenseer if he can't leave the cave? And had he stayed there, Hodor's trauma from the past would have been for nothing. How sick is that?

The Northern lords did not come to the Riverlands as conquerors but allies. Because their feudal overlord, Robb Stark, was the grandson of the Riverlands feudal lord, Hoster Tully. In the books, Robb was King in the North AND King of the Trident. The North also has something like the second-smallest population in Westeros, but is the largest kingdom in terms of land area. The Riverlands was meant to be a co-kingdom rather than a province of the North.

The theory about the Wall being brought down by the Night King's mark on Bran's arm is ridiculous to me for a number of reasons. We saw a wight brought into Castle Black in the "The Pointy End" episode in Season 1. Othor, the re-animated Night's Watch brother, was killed by a White Walker, so it's unclear if corpses can only be re-animated if they were killed by White Walker sna their wight servitors. But even if the Walkers enacted their necromantic spells from behind the magical barrier in the Wall, that same barrier should have cancelled out the effects of their spells. I mean, the Cave of the Three-eyed Raven was littered by skeletons, but the Walkers apparantly didn't take advantage of that, even when they did access the cave.

Also, if the mark on Bran's arm was for the Wall, then logically the Night King shouldn't have sent his wights to chase Bran and Meera into the forest in the beginning of the next episode. Nothing about this fan-theory about Bran's mark adds up!