User talk:Xanderen

Welcome
Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the User talk:EnglishJoker page.

We welcome all contributions to the Wiki but please be aware of the following simple rules:

1) This wiki is meant for the Game of Thrones TV series and the TV alone. Spoilers from the novels are not permitted at all. Discussion of earlier events in the novels and the use of non-spoiler background material from the novel as regards specific events, characters and places in the TV series are allowed (in the 'In the books' section of an article) but future events cannot be discussed.

2) This wiki has specific permission from HBO's marketing department to use a reasonable number of promotional images and screencaps from the series to illustrate articles. The use of other copyrighted images is not permitted without either specific permission or fair use attributions. For example, this Wiki cannot use Amoka's portrait images or Ted Nasmith's castle pictures as these are copyrighted. In addition, the Wiki is focused on the TV series and TV series alone. Images from other media should be avoided without a very good cause.

Enjoy your editing and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Gonzalo84 (talk) 09:08, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Timeline
Official wiki stance at the moment is that one TV season equals one year; that appears to be the principle they were trying to do, due to child actors aging. Yes, splitting book 3 in half made Season 4 drag out...only for Season 5 to suddenly condense a lot of the timeline.

Nonetheless that's what we're following until decided otherwise.

Er, or at least, continue discussion of this on the Talk page of the "Timeline" article, instead of specifically reverting the Olyvar page.

Admittedly I think the TV writers only half-heartedly followed this rule, but it's what we're stuck with.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:33, March 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay, I have quite a lot to say about this, but don't have the time right now. Xanderen (talk) 11:35, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

I admit it's very screwed up. But for years now, we were functioning under a system of having no in-universe sense of time whatsoever because the writers were playing coy about it - intentionally not making frequent updates so they didn't have to waste time checking their work. But after we figured out that they were generally following a one season equals one year principle - just not following their own rule well - we went with that for a lack of better options.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:56, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

Euron and the deed
I don't think Euron is doing the deed himself - I think he's at one end of a rope bridge watching as Jaqen does the deed.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:11, March 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * Could be... in a flashback, you mean? I'm not even bummed about the physical differences to be honest. As long as the performance is on point! He's my favorite character from the books, and pretty much the reason I registered an account here this year. Xanderen (talk) 23:22, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

(They may have wanted to avoid confusion with Beric Dondarrion)

Actually I think it's going to be the Prologue cold open scene, but who knows. ...Why don't you have a Greyjoy userbox?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:27, March 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * I was thinking in terms of the timeline, but yeah... I guess if Littlefinger can have a jetpack, Jaqen can have a broomstick, or something. I'm not that keen on the Greyjoys in general, just Euron. He's the ultimate wild card. Xanderen (talk) 23:45, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry
No matter how accurate our reproductions are, we're striving to use direct copies of official heraldry patterns whenever possible - albeit this is usually limited to a dozen or so Houses that they've made good quality promo materials for (Stark, Lannister, Targaryen, etc.) Greyjoy's a bit limited but we'll stick with what we've got for now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:22, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry Consistency

We are both striving for consistency for the shields.

The Heraldry template will automatically size the shield to the correct size so we don't need to have both a Main-Shield file and an Icon-Shield file. Using two different files means we would have twice the work to make them consistent. But if we only use the Main-Shield through-out the wiki, whenever a shield gets uploaded - such as when you upload an updated shield with a different shape - it will automatically flow through across the wiki. That would ensure that the shields stay consistent now and in the future.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:26, March 12, 2016 (UTC)

Please stop what you're doing. You have picked the absolute worst time to initiate a major overhaul of the heraldry templates - the weekend the Blu-ray release comes out. Right now we're busy dissecting the "Histories & Lore" videos.

You asked us for consistent rules about how to utilize heraldry (either exact copies or approximations) - if you asked about this, don't go ahead and make the change anyway.

You've done absolutely nothing wrong, things are just hectic today.

Dealing with the heraldry stuff is on the To-Do list, I'll get back to this by tomorrow when I have more computer time.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:27, March 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I asked for some consistency... your reply in the chat room was (as you barely ever bother to respond to your talk page), and I quote - "You'll need to work this out for yourself"! How exactly is what I've been doing stopping you, or anyone else working on the H&L segments? If you cast your eye around you'll see that I did a fair amount myself.


 * You should have stopped to think before posting this. Take into a account for a second the shear amount of time and effort that I've put into this over the weekend. Not just this, but also creating new resized images for the portals (which, by your own admission, you didn't know how to do). This is time consuming, and massively tedious work, but I did it to help the wiki. I was also writing up new content for the game side of the wiki, which is frankly lanking...


 * To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about contributing here anymore... if this is how people get treated. You're probably aware of this, but this place has a really bad reputation in the Ice and Fire community. Anyway, congrats for driving away another good-faith contributor. Xanderen (talk) 06:55, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm very sorry. Yeah I posted that as I was running out to do something else, and in the back of my mind all day I was in fact thinking "ack, I should have just dropped what I was doing to work on that, I've been stringing him along for too long". I'm trying to work on half a dozen things at any one moment and didn't want to stop to have to work on this but you're right there will never be a "good" time, so I'll get right on it....--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:13, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

Just my two cents but I think the work that Xanderen did over the weekend looks great. I hope you stick around.Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:05, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

As do I, as do I. This was entirely my fault - albeit, I hope you understand, to just getting buried with work. Yes I ignored the problem for too long. I'm in chat all day please drop in. Working on this now...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:07, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

Would you mind if I started updated the mini-shields on all the battle pages? It looks like you did a couple but stopped.

Also, I was going to use the main-shield files unless you really want me to use the shield-icon files.

Finally, could you create both the Free Folks and Second Sons shields? They are on used on HBO own website so I think we should use them here as well.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:08, March 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, of course, you don't need my permission. I kept running into protected pages, which is why I stopped. I was also hoping that The Dragon Demands might give some response to my feedback on Talk:Heraldry... I feel a little unsure of if I/we should proceed without direction? I don't mind about the file size if you're sure about it. Xanderen (talk) 22:26, March 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * And yes to the requests - they were on the list of things for TDD to review, so just waiting for him to reply. Xanderen (talk) 22:28, March 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I'm going to use Main-Shield for everything. I think it will save time in the future if we ever need to update the shields again (though at this point, I would be reluctant to change it again, especially since the new ones look great).


 * On waiting for TDD, I would start with the shields that have don't have any controvery such as widlings and Second Sons and probably Faith of the Seven. My vote is to have a separate shield for Faith of Seven instead of using the Faith Militant shield for all followers since the Faith Militant has a distinct role in the series.  Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:09, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think that regular Faith members should have no heraldry (as they wouldn't in-universe). A shield implies they are part of a military order, which the Faith Militant are. Frankly I'm annoyed that we're still waiting. Xanderen (talk) 11:23, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Please reply
Can you please get back to me and SSMcS about the heraldry? We'v been waiting two weeks now, and I personally have been waiting over a month for your feedback about the portals (which you promised you would give...). It's okay to have better things to do, but you seem to have endless time when it comes to "playing chess" with ArticXiongmao. Some basic responses is all we're looking for so we can move forward with these projects and get them finished before season six starts. I really can't see any reason why I, or anyone else should bother when you're not willing to take five minutes to respond to your own talk page. The new infoboxes that Wikia set up are still malfunctioning, by the way. Xanderen (talk) 11:38, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Ack. You're right to be annoyed and I'm aware of how late this was. I moved this up to my primary focus but then I wasn't actively editing much for several days - note in my contributions tab that all updates to the Season 5 Histories & Lore just dropped off (which is what I want to get to after this).

Actually today was when I was finally going to have a "catch up day" and get onto it.

Other things I can't discuss in public, I'll be in Chatroom all day.

Working on it this instant.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:29, March 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * I too easily got distracted by a side argument, srry.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:59, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Front page Houses navbox
Okay I've loaded up your update. The frontpage Navbox of course won't be a full listing of ALL Houses and heraldry (there are overboven how little developed they are in the TV show, it isn't worth cluttering up the navbox even more....)

I didn't know about including Dayne at first but A - they've got a cool sigil, B - We'll get more of Arthur Dayne next season, 3 - they sure as hell SHOULD have introduced other Dornish Houses more prominently by this point.

Two minor points:

1 - I eventually want to remove Hornwood to put in Stokeworth; Hornwood is barely mentioned while Stokeworths appear on-screen (and hopefully will get more of their subplot in Season 6). YES, this necessitates choices about their heraldry artwork, that's a separate question (basically I think the TV producers based the embroidery version of the sigil on the fanart used on AWOIAF itself, and either way the lamb holding a cub is in the exact same position, and we've "cheated" with our own fan reproductions deduced from the animated Histories & Lore...so I'm thinking of just flat out using the one from AWOIAF on a provisional basis).

2 - The colors used in the Forrester heraldry on the portal icon are a bit off compared to the one on their main page, or even the Karstark one also in the portal (which also has a white-on-black color scheme). Seems a bit grey-ish. Please try to correct the color as best as possible (not expecting a miracle).

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:29, March 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, of course we can't fit them all in. The new ones I added were rally just a stop-gap measure until you made a final decision. Although, yes, I thought Dayne would be cool, seeing as Ser Arthur is being introduced this year. I had the same thought about Hornwood; they will be part of the Battle of the Bastards, as will Cerwyn... maybe a better choice considering they are mentioned by name. If we opt to develop a separate portal for the game there would be two extra slots, as we would (presumably) remove Forrester and Whitehill from the main one.


 * As for the colors... I created the portals using the main shield files, so the colors are identical. I'm not sure what more I can do. Xanderen (talk) 09:47, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

Color is off in the main Forrester shield...this is a separate issue...If I had to choose, from casting reports I'd go with Cerwyn before Hornwood; indications we'll get named characters from Cerwyn. In the near future I want to switch to Stokeworth....though we don't know if their subplot will appear next season, it's fairly important, they're more prominent than Hornwood, etc....well they're placeholders for the last few slots.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:56, March 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's cool. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Frontpage Seven Kingdoms navbox
I've loaded up your artwork maps for the Seven Kingdoms portal on the front page -- excellent work!

One minor thing is that I added back in the "Westeros" map and icon. It doesn't really fit well (the continent is much taller than it is wide) -- but the reason I put it in there in the first place is because otherwise....we really don't have a navigation icon for just "Westeros" in the frontpage dropdown navboxes :) -- and that seemed the best place to put one.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:37, March 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, glad you like it. Of course, I can make a new Westeros icon... I was just waiting to see if you liked the art style. Xanderen (talk) 09:47, March 26, 2016 (UTC)


 * Try a resized Westeros icon but just use the map file, not extra artwork or anything - the "continent" is a landmass, geography/climate, knows no boundaries.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:57, March 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Beyond the Wall frontpage navbox
Overall good, one or two points:

1 - yeah...the Gift isn't really recognizable on a map of that scale, better to go with the screenshot.

2 - The squared-off image for "Children of the Forest" is too high, it cuts off her neck while leaving a lot of space above her head; please try to shift that down so it shows her face more clearly.

3 - Wildlings...I rather like the image of Tormund when he's talking to Jon. For a small image of such size the group shot of the wildling settlement might be a bit difficult to see. Any way to square off the Tormund image?

I'm adding the whole thing into the front page now, please just get back to me on the Children of the Forest/wildlings things.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:46, March 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll make those adjustments. Xanderen (talk) 09:47, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

Correct in assuming that the Locations navbox images are still a work in progress?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:53, March 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Correct. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry shape
I mentioned this quickly on another page before; yes, ack, I didn't realize: the pointed shape is to emulate the way they're written in the Book of Brothers - yes that shall be our official shape. I'll declare this officially on the "Heraldry" Talk page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:40, March 26, 2016 (UTC)


 * Excellent. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

List
I've caught up with the past 2 weeks worth of "Recent Changes" edits except for yours - now I'm reading through your Contributions tab since March 12th.

To speed up the process, can you please make a bulleted list of every Heraldry-related task I haven't gotten to yet?

I also probably need to make a more formal listing on the Heraldry Talk page of sigils we do or do not have and in what condition.

...ah, you've already got a sandbox page list going....

Work continues...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:40, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I did something similar in responding to your points on Talk:Heraldry. Do you want a complete list of heraldry related tasks (as for as I can tell)? Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

I'm caught up and focusing on this now; please list any and all current concerns on the Heraldry talk page, I want to get this finished.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:52, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

Shield size
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Gonzalo84?diff=prev&oldid=236286

er....from what I've heard from Ser Shield McShield, there's no reason to use smaller shields - they resize automatically. Try just using the big ones and see if they resize as expected - hopefully we won't need to go through the extra work of using the smaller ones.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:01, March 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * That's fine, I also realized that the small shields are unnecessary. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ramsay video game page
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xanderen/Ramsay_Snow_(game)

This looks good, but merging video game info was an ongoing task, I don't know how much we can get to in the next 30 days before the Season 6 premiere -- Season 2 of the game won't be out for a while.

DO NOT delete this or anything it's good work, but the video game is a whole huge task on the "To Do" list, and not an imminent priority -- before that we're going through the Season 5 Histories & Lore, cleaning up some of the Free Cities/Meereen stuff, hopefully tidy up the character pages (ack), etc. etc. Frankly we're hitting crunch time.

Our original plan was to just merge the stuff - not keep "Ramsay video game" separate from "Ramsay" pages. At the least you can move some of the behind the scenes production stuff into the main page like the thing of Rheon recording.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:06, March 27, 2016 (UTC)


 * Cool. I'm in no particular hurry to get this published, but I would like to get it finished soon. Xanderen (talk) 08:11, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Heraldry
Okay, cool - I made another update to the Talk:Heraldry page which I think addresses every question, systematically. Good job on all concerns. Yes, the pointed heraldry is now standard due to imitating the Book of Brothers.

I think I addressed every question you had. Unless I'm wrong, I'm now moving forward to the next task on the To-Do list (barring specific questions), dealing with the Season 5 Histories & Lore...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:36, April 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * Excellent. I'll just have my breakfast, then I'll read through it all. - 08:03, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Excellent work on Forrester and Crakehall shield recoloring; problem solved.

One small issue: this is the heraldry banner icon; Forrester also needs a new centered image to use in the front page navbox. Just copy-paste/center, should be straightforward, but leaving it for you to do as you see fit.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:16, April 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Done. - 12:49, April 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * Let's see...Corbray, Strong, new Dondarrion sigils also great. As are Second Sons and Brotherhood Without Banners.


 * A new user called "TumSat" also recently uploaded artwork, properly shaped, for Hoare, Stokeworth, and Manwoody. What do you think of them? Of these, Hoare and Manwoody are basically taken from AWOIAF...and I don't mind because the TV animated version copied Hoare pretty well; meanwhile...the Stokeworth sigil seen on Lollys's dress matches the AWOIAF fanart *exactly*, to the point that I think the embroiderer directly copied the design, in which case it's a good "approximation" either way. So those two seem serviceable to me.


 * The Manwoody one seems a bit off though - the approximation has only three points on the crown, but the actual version (which have have decent behind the scenes closeups for) has five.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:14, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * I guess it's up to you... I left the Stokeworth one in place, as you said you were contemplating using the AWoIaF version, and it's a fairly good resemblance anyway (maybe some modification is in order). However I don't think we should use the other two. The image we have of the Hoare sigil from H&L isn't clear enough to make a truly accurate replica, and the Manwoody one is distinctly different, as you say. Allowing them would essentially be like saying all bets are off, and any artwork will do... a bad precedent IMO. - 20:51, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

...Well okay I'll take down both Manwoody and Hoare.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:05, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * Unlike House Haigh, which is identical to the AWoIaF version. - 21:20, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

New Royce heraldry excellent, consider it finished.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:21, April 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I thought you'd like that one more. - 13:27, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

Greyjoy heraldry
Was there a problem with the Greyjoy heraldry or something? Mentioned that there are variants.

Well....at this point we'll soon have a lot more focus on Greyjoys next season in a matter of weeks, so it probably won't remain an issue for long.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:24, April 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * Not really... there are a few different variants that appear in-universe (as there are for most houses). At one point I was in favor of using one of the alternates, as it appears more prominently in the show but there's certainly not a problem. - 08:03, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Template User Old Gods
I'm sorry but I reverted Template: User Old Gods to the screenshot version. The stylized artwork version you added just looks like a face - without the detail of a screenshot I really think it was difficult to tell what it was.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:27, April 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * No worries. It seemed like there was a trend towards 2D artwork for userboxes, but it's your call. - 08:03, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Frontpage character navbox
On the frontpage character navbox, two things:

As said before the plan is to replace Ellaria with Euron as soon as we have a good image of him.

Second, I think the image for the High Sparrow needs to be replaced - he's leaning forward in the image, so the lower part of his face gets covered by the words "High Sparrow".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:06, April 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * That's fine, I'll get on that today. - 08:03, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * Fixed, using a different image. - 12:09, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Organizations and Religions
New portal images you made for Organizations and Religions are outstanding, I have loaded them onto the front page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:44, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. - 16:21, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

Well I think the Faith Militant shield from their website is itself a bit uneven and thought we could fix it by mirroring it....ah, forget it. It would take time away from other stuff you want to work on, and they might produce a better version anyway with Season 6 coming. Don't worry about it. Just go with what we had.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:17, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I noticed. I'll leave it as it is for now, as it may be like that for a reason. I thought that the short point might represented the Stranger, as the least worshiped of the Seven. - 20:56, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * ...interesting.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:04, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

Season 6
Thank you for warning me about the leak.

You're relatively new on here but I hope you understand that everyone on here disagrees and debates stuff constantly, and that disagreements about the Timeline are just minor bickering....in comparison to THE BASTARDS POSTING IMAGES AND INFORMATION FROM THE LEAKED PREMIERE A DAY BEFORE IT AIRS. (ARRGGH!) All other discussions pale in comparison to this existential threat.

Good to have you on the team.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 12:57, April 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * Of course... I would never think that debates like the one over the timeline are anything but healthy and well intentioned. - 13:16, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

Opening credit sigils
Oh, thanks a lot of being interested in the opening credit sigils, been meaning to get to that. Remember that they can change from season to season depending on who's in it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:52, May 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yup, its in progress. There are different versions of the same ones as well, Seaworth, for example. - 18:54, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Howland Reed In Season 6
Source?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:42, May 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * There was, uh, a spy video circulating some months ago which rather clearly showed young Eddard dueling a certain man, and nearly being killed, before another man intervenes and saves him. I take it as certainty Howland is in the season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:50, May 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * The Howland Reed article has stated that he will appear in Season 6 since January. - 18:52, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Young Ser Rodrik
Do we have any source to state that the man training Ned and Benjen is Ser Rodrik and not a nameless master-at-arms?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 13:21, May 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Not as far as I'm aware. I've tweeted the actor asking him which character he played (I doubt I'll get a response). I thought it was Brandon Stark initially, hence why I removed the information, but TDD says it was Rodrik (although he got the actor mixed up). Linda from Westeros.org thinks it's Rodrik as well, based on the whiskers. - 13:31, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I put a note in saying "this is Rodrik" because I also initially thought it was Brandon and only realized the possibility it is Rodrik when someone else pointed it out.

He looks so much like Ron Donachie that I think it's no accident - he even has his side whiskers. But is he Daniel Portman or an actor cast to look like Portman's father at a young age?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:38, May 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think Rodrik is more likely than Brandon, but the actor is Fergus Leathem, not Daniel Portman. That's beyond dispute. - 19:26, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

Kingsmoot
Dare we hope for some in-episode Iron Islands heraldry other than the Greyjoys' at the upcoming Kingsmoot?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:40, May 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * I hope so as well!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:49, May 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * That would be amazing, but knowing the show it will be quite a stripped back affair, and will just be a contest between Yara and Euron. The snippets we've seen in trailers so far have just showed Greyjoy banners... but that scene might be the coronation/baptism, not the actual Kingsmoot. - 19:26, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

Images
Hi there,

Just regarding your note about images. I don't think I intentionally added the images. I am using an IPad so I might have accidentally clicked on something while typing. But thanks for getting in touch with me. Andykatib 1919, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

603 heraldry
Con: I hoped that one of the Kingsguard horses had the Hightower sigil on it, but on closer inspection it did not.

Pro: Howland Reed is wearing a cloak clasp shaped like his sigil.

It is of course, the circular ouroboros shape previously used with fanart on AWOIAF...not the Histories & Lore version.

Consider that the House Stokeworth sigil also looks exactly like the fanart version used on AWOIAF.

When Jim Stane started the heraldry in Season 1, he said there are infinite ways to draw "a lion" so he did a lot of work to figure out the best one.

Lately, I think the TV production team is just directly using AWOIAF as a reference.

This isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, at least it's a basis in something, but I wish they continued to put their own effort into making something unique.

I'm not sure how to handle the Reed heraldry now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:04, May 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * As do I... although I guess it's a compliment to the AWoIaF folks. But yeah, they brazenly copied the design, so I took the initiative and switched ours as well. Assuming the version that appears on screen is more canonical than the one from the H&L segment. - 19:56, May 9, 2016 (UTC)

Arthur Dayne
Would you be extremely offended if I switched to the previoys portrait image? From this day until my last day, Arthur Dayne is officially my favorite character - I want him to look badass :3 --CrappyScrap (talk) 18:55, May 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * I personally don't mind. :-)


 * While I'm already nagging you - is this file based on descriptions open to interpretation? I was thinking of changing it to something closer to this (based on this). Are you fine with me altering your darling? ^^ --CrappyScrap (talk) 21:42, May 9, 2016 (UTC)


 * Haha! Ah, I actually had a similar thought... although I didn't personally create the current Dayne artwork (so I don't really mind) I do know that's based off his page in the Book of Brothers. It may be more canon, as it appears on screen/in the show. Like I said, I don't really mind - we should probably ask TDD! :-) - 09:22, May 10, 2016 (UTC)