Board Thread:TV Show Discussion/@comment-5014364-20150610221653/@comment-15030876-20150611093726

GRRM not only "allowed" it (not that he can do anything not to allow it, but okay) but WROTE it. It will be in TWOW, but it will be there. Book Stannis fans are already trying to rationalize it, finding a way in which the event may be seen in a better light —If he does it during a battle against the White Walkers, for example.

I must say, these people seem to be missing a few things. It wasn't just to stop the Boltons. It does NOT change things that Shireen was his heir.

If they didn't survive, they wouldn't be able to stop the Boltons... or the White Walkers. Just a few episodes ago, Melisandre put it plainly: either Stannis is king when the Long Night comes or they all die. If they freeze to death or die of hunger in their march to Winterfell, it's all over.

Granted, maybe the writers could’ve had Melisandre give the same speech she gave two weeks ago (yet again!), but honestly, I think people get it by now (except book readers who are obsessed over a romantic view of Stannis, apparently.) Stannis alluded to it while talking to her daughter just before the sacrifice (fulfilling one’s destiny, however much one may hate it, which is very much in line with Stannis’ obsession with duty); and Melisandre made this point explicitly in The Gift, just two episodes before this horrific event, precisely while trying to convince Stannis to burn Shireen:

"There is only one way. You must become king before the Long Night begins. Only you can lead the living against the dead. All your life has led us to this moment. To this decision."

They presented it beautifully, as far as I am concerned. Yes, there is a great deal of ambition in Stannis’ motivations, but it is a kind of messianic ambition, not particularly selfish (though certainly narcissistic —It takes narcissism to believe you are the Second Coming of Azor “Jesus Christ via Greek Tragedy” Ahai.) The choice Stannis sees in his mind, as presented in the episode, is this: either they all die, including Stannis, Selyse, Melisandre AND of course Shireen herself, or only Shireen dies in a sacrifice, saving them all. That’s why the complaints that Stannis wouldn’t sacrifice his own heir are stupid; He didn’t really have a choice there. Shireen would die either way, either by the frost and hunger or the sacrifice.

As for the idea that it was contrived and written to "shock"... that's absurd. If it feels contrived to book readers it's only because they didn't know it was coming... or they didn't want to believe, despite the abundant foreshadowing since season two:

"You will betray the men serving you, you will betray your family, you will betray everything you once held dear... and it will all be worth it, because you are the Son of Fire, you are the Warrior of Light."

What did YOU think that meant, if not that Stannis would have to kill members of his own family and people in his service to become the king and save everyone as the Son of Fire and the Warrior of Liht? Did you not see Stannis still allowed Melisandre to service him after she said that? Not only that, but in the show he started believing in that moment, which was after Blackwater, after that speech and seeing a battle in the snow in the flames. What did you think would happen?

The point is, regardless of books, the story here made sense. Ramsay’s sabotage made sense. Many have tired to poke holes in it, just because they hate the scenario so much... rather unsuccessfully. Some have argued Stannis would’ve had guards… ignoring that the episode acknowledges it (either they were incompetent or traitors and Stannis wants them hanged.) The dire aftermath of the attack makes sense. So what’s the problem? That it didn’t happen that way in the books, so you didn’t expect it, which now makes it feel contrived and written to shock... while the Red Wedding and Ned's death was... what? GRRM could've just NOT killed them, but the story was heading that way and there are consequences to their deaths, which there also will be with Stannis' decision and Shireen's death.

So, as for the fact that he's sacrificing his only child and heir so he can capture a castle instead of a least doing it in the fight against the White Walkers in the future... You're missing the point. There is NO future if they die there —a point Melisandre, Stannis and Selyse have been explicitly making for a few episodes now. Yes, the writers made the situation shitty so that Stannis would kill Shireen. That’s how writing works —These are not real people or events; D&D are not monsters for planning this instead of arriving at it naturally somehow. That’s just utterly absurd.