Board Thread:TV Show Discussion/@comment-26973527-20170827010700

So as the season is coming to an end, I think by now I already have watched enough to form my overall opinion on it, which is not very positive to say the least. There has been a lot of criticism on how this seaosn deals with timing, pacing, plotholes and the overall writing. I agree with that fully, honestly there is not one storyline this season in which I don't think the writing is sloppy and convenient to what the writers themselves want.

But no storyline this season has irked, irritated and annoyed me as much as the extinction of House Tyrell. This may seem like a pointless thread filled with complaints, but this is just something I really just need to get off my back and discuss with people.

As I'm sure you all are aware, House Tyrell is - well was - one of the most powerful Houses in the Seven Kingdoms. They literally had everything you could imagine, especially wealth and political power. In the books the Tyrells are a huge family with multiple branches. The show did a pretty decent job at portraying the Tyrells in the early seasons, their political shifts, their (particularly Margaery's) influence over both nobles and common people etc. Even outside of the main characters like Margaery, Loras, Mace and Olenna we see many more Tyrell men and women such as handmaidens close to Margaery, and cousins (both seen and mentioned). Now we all know the story from there, Cersei got jealous, armed the Faith Millitant, blew up Margaery, Mace and Loras yada yada. The Queen, Warden of the South and his heir are dead.

Now after getting rid of these characters in a quick way, the show keeps alive Olenna whom we have been introduced to as a bigger character. Olenna is originally a redwyne, and as Mace's mother she mostly worked behind the scenes and never was in a position of actual power. Now let's get to my actual point: the Fall of Highgarden. Olenna is apparently the last Tyrell alive (what happened to the cousins we saw? handmaidens? Alerie Tyrell?). Jaime and Randyll take the castle of Highgarden in a quick 2 minute montage, the battle happened off-screen. The inconsistencies make the fall of Highgarden highly implausible:

1. Even mentioned multiple times in the show, the Tyrells have the LARGEST military strength of the Seven Kingdoms.The Tyrells themselves have tens of thousands of men not including their bannermen or House Tarly: Military strength, while the Lannister/Tarly force was only ~10,000. Most importantly, they were on the defense against a force with no means of assaulting the walls. They defeated the Baratheon forces at the Battle of Blackwater and Loras was known as one of the best knights in Westeros.The explanation given by the writers in their behind the scene videos just reeks of subtle homophobia and sexism. Because of course Tyrells with their Oh so Gay warrior Loras and Flower sigils would be “bad” and are not “known for being great warriors”. Wildlings were not known for great warriors as well but that didn’t stop them from fighting, right? . When for the past 6 seasons they looked good as any and even Loras defeated Mountain by force and smarts. So 100,000 army with all their gold ..just…disappeared. Uh…

2. The Lannisters took over Highgarden to get rid of their enemies and steal all their supplies and gold. Highgarden is the capital of the reach. Highgarden has more grain and resources than any other seat (which is why the Lannisters attacked it) and could have easily held out much longer in a siege. When the Freys/Lannisters besieged Riverrun, the Blackfish said Riverrun could have held out in a siege for 2 years. Laying a siege on Highgarden would have took at least 5 years. The Lannister/Tarly force could only hope to siege anyways since they had no equipment that would enable them to attack. So even if the Tyrell garrison fights poorly, they did not even need to fight. They just had to wait behind the fortress walls until help came. And help would have come before the attackers could have finished building any artillery, rams, even ladders since the Dragons would likely get there first.

Even besides that, Highgarden is located on top of a HUGE hill and has three big walls and a maze that almost no one from the outside could just get into. There is no element of surprise since the attackers could not assault the walls. How did they breach the walls without siege equipment or infiltrating the castle to open the gates? There wasn’t even a siege.

3. The Lannister army endured heavy combat during The War of The Five Kings, it depleted their wartime resources, and sustained a number of casualties. The Tyrell force, on the other had, is essentially unscathed and unspent. Furthermore, the Lannister’s food stocks were heavily depleted (one of the main reasons they were attacking Highgarden, to take their grain), so they likely did not even have the resources to feed their men during a protracted siege of Highgarden (that is, until the arrival of Daenerys’ reinforcements).

4. Lord Tarly sided with the person who murdered his liege lord and children... riiight. In the books Randyll immediately goes to King's Landing when Margaery is imprisoned. He knew Olenna since he was a child. Why didn't Olenna hold a council meeting with all her bannermen? She would have made it known to them that she seeks retribution for what happened. If they had objections, they would have worked it out amongst themselves. She is a smart person who would not risk losing her bannermen, and if she did not have their support, she would likely not have entered the alliance with Daenerys immediately and instead taken time to bring the Lords on board with the plan. Somehow, it seems Lord Tarly and the other Lords were conveniently not informed of this fact by Olenna, as they still seem to believe the destruction of the Sept was an accident. Lord Tarly is no dishonorable oathbreaker. If he understood why Olenna made her decision to ally Daenerys, he likely would have supported it, as the Northmen supported Jon in bringing them together with the Wildlings. At the very least, he would have spoken with Olenna to understand her motives before backstabbing the person who belongs to a family he has been serving for his entire life.

5. Once again, what happened to all the other Tyrells we saw??

6. How did Varys’ spy network (which spans all of Westeros and as far as the eastern end of Essos) not know the Lannister army was marching on Highgarden? The Lannister army can’t teleport. They still needed to take days, likely weeks, to march the hundreds of miles to Highgarden, and a mobile army of thousands of men is easy to spot if they are taking the main roads (which they had to since their supply wagons march with the army).

So, if you are still here after reading my rant, or if you just want a TLDR:

The fall of Highgarden and the extinction of House Tyrell was completely unrealistic and one of the worst things this show has invented since Dorne. It is a cheap way to get rid of a story arc and characters, and it is obvious they wrote this plot so that they could use it to their own advantage.

Terrible. 