User talk:The Dragon Demands

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Game of Thrones Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User:The Dragon Demands page.

We welcome all contributions to the Wiki but please be aware of the following simple rules:

1) This wiki is meant for the Game of Thrones TV series and the TV alone. Spoilers from the novels are not permitted at all. Discussion of earlier events in the novels and the use of non-spoiler background material from the novel as regards specific events, characters and places in the TV series are allowed (in the 'In the books' section of an article) but future events cannot be discussed.

2) This wiki has specific permission from HBO's marketing department to use a reasonable number of promotional images and screencaps from the series to illustrate articles. The use of other copyrighted images is not permitted without either specific permission or fair use attributions. For example, this Wiki cannot use Amoka's portrait images or Ted Nasmith's castle pictures as these are copyrighted. In addition, the Wiki is focused on the TV series and TV series alone. Images from other media should be avoided without a very good cause.

Enjoy your editing and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Opark 77 (Talk) 00:33, April 13, 2012

Thanks for your message and welcome again.--Opark 77 16:21, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Numbered names
Daenerys is the only Targaryen of that name established in the context of the TV series so we don't need to worry about disambiguation there unless the show establishes her ancestor. Otherwise we should disambiguate.--Opark 77 22:36, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * In that case, given that he didn't actually rule and his name won't come up frequently, maybe he should be renamed "Aegon Targaryen (Rhaegar's son)" or something, and the other one titled "Aegon the Conqueror". Maybe the Conqueror should be "Aegon Targaryen" he comes up more. --The Dragon Demands 22:38, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Would you mind replying on my talk page so I get an alert about your message? I have made Aegon Targaryen a disambiguation page. Perhaps you could take on redirecting the links there to the appropriate other article? As an aside your to do list's third point is patently untrue and quite irritating to someone who invests a lot of their time keeping all of our character articles up to date on a weekly basis. If you can help me out with those links then I can carry on updating the main characters (and yes then the supporting characters) with their role in this weeks episode. I do this systematically on a weekly basis.--Opark 77 22:51, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for removing that.--Opark 77 23:10, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm really sorry, I just wrote that down stream-of-consciousness-like the other day; I think I just came it at an off-time in the 'lurch between activity. I think I've found the culprit:  I didn't realize that Game of Thrones airs on Monday nights in the UK, while it airs on Sunday nights here in the USA (I'm in New York City); thus at the time, I rushed to my computer to update stuff Monday morning, but couldn't figure out why everyone else wasn't just yet.  I think you guys were just fixing up the articles on the prostitute characters from episode 2 of season 2, as there were scenes at Chez Littlefinger in that episode, while I was on the edge of my seat about stuff happening in episode 3.  I will take this time difference into account from now on. --The Dragon Demands 23:22, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Could well be. Thanks again for removing it and no hard feelings on my part.--Opark 77 18:00, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Mercenaries
Looks really good, thanks for your work.--Opark 77 10:36, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Essos Geography
Thanks for the correction re: Forest of Qohor. My erroneous Zohor has been merged in. With regard to towns vs. cities I am happy for you to alter the articles or note the book version in the section if you would like.--Opark 77 17:54, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation guide
The pronunciation guide was given here by scriptwriter/editor Bryan Cogamn.--Werthead 18:53, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is here.--Opark 77 23:02, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you not add references to the punctuation guide to the "In the books" section. It is more of a "Behind the scenes" thing if anything. We probably ought to reference it wherever we refer to it also.--Opark 77 16:54, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I reference it by linking to it. As for the section, not every page has a "Behind the Scenes" section and I don't want to clutter them up by adding more unnecessarily. The pronunciation guide would have been approved by Martin, so it should be equally applicable to the books. Either way I'm just getting it on the page in some form as a stop-gap measure, and they can be reshuffled into "Behind the Scenes" later...--The Dragon Demands 17:23, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

Maps
I need to confirm with HBO that we can use the map from their website to illustrate our articles (as we have on the Slaver's Bay page as a test case). If they say yes, I can create smaller regional maps from that. However, the larger map of Westeros with the region coloured in red should stay as it establishes the region in the overall picture of the continent. Since we have no space limitations on the website, there is no real reason not to include it (although the dimensions of the map are indeed somewhat awkward to work with). As for the world map, the compass box is there for the simple reason that it covers an area that we don't have any maps for :-) The western bit of Sothoryos is from the books, the eastern bit is from the HBO map, but the bit in the middle that connects the two is a mystery. Until that is resolved we can't put anything there, so the compass box conveniently covers it over. As for the red dot, simply download a map which has the red dot not surrounded by any other features (I find the Winterfell one works best) and cut, resize, copy and paste as needed.--Werthead 19:56, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh okay. What I meant was, can we take that same Westeros map image, "crop" it and zoom in on say, the Riverlands; the resolution wouldn't be improved but its not trying to be a more accurate map.  Nor do I really want to use other sections of the HBO map as from Slaver's Bay, it was a bit too...lyrical, compared to the cut-and-dry black-and-whites.  I'll play around with this and see if they meet your approval...--The Dragon Demands 23:55, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Interwiki links
Opark 77 06:51, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Opark 77 02:11, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Tx/La
I live between the two. Currently I am living/working in Louisiana (New Orleans), but go home to Texas from time to time to see family :) -- 16:11, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * This must make True Blood fun.--The Dragon Demands 19:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah it's neat when they mention cities that I know or have been to lol 00:12, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

AWOIAF
AWOIAF has nothing to do with this wiki on a policy level. AWOIAF's standard of English is generally low and I don't think we should use them as a template for our articles. We link to them because they are the most comprehensive book resource but we are not trying to emulate their policies. Blanket statements like this one are incorrect.--Opark 77 02:18, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay then; the other examples I showed from google search were more important to what I was saying, but nevermind.--The Dragon Demands 02:50, April 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * I wasn't referring to the detailed explanation you posted on the talk page but to the specific edit summary that I linked to.--Opark 77 07:17, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

New photos
Be careful, they have a black line above.--Gonzalo84 01:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ack, I'll have to read that.--The Dragon Demands 01:36, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Great job on the summaries and categories but could you please also add a licensing tag. For screenshots we use e.g. this edit.--Opark 77 07:16, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I noticed that halfway through: I originally thought those were added automatically.  --The Dragon Demands 16:26, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. If we could make it do that it would be nice but I'm not aware how.--Opark 77 16:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Spoilers
Several of your edits regarding the latest episode clearly violate the spoiler policy here by discussing events from later in the book series. You are a valued contributor here but please work within the established policies.--Opark 77 21:47, May 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry I'm not sure where the blurred lines end. Its not as if I said how Rodrick actually does die in the books.  --The Dragon Demands 22:27, May 7, 2012 (UTC)

Undoing edits
I've had a message from 132.72.45.21 about your conduct regarding the climate mentions in our region articles. Where your work is challenged and a source is requested it is not acceptable to blank undo those changes like this. This is described as edit warring on wikipedia where it happens more than once and is something we want to avoid. If you disagree with an edit then your first recourse is to engage the editor in discussion on the talk page. As a bare minimum you need to describe your position in the edit summary. I note from the page history that this has been going back and forth without discussion. Where an editor challenges content and requests a source you should source the content before restoring it.--Opark 77 06:23, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think its confusing to say "The North has the smallest population" when in fact, the books say it really doesn't, its just the most sparsely populated. Rather, all of this should probably be moved to "in the books". No, I was not "edit warring" -- I barely had time to fix up "Currency" and I'm sorry I didn't have time to properly integrate these things from "the North", "the Riverlands", etc. I was racing out the door to catch a plane to Kalamazoo where I am presenting an article at the International Medieval Congress 2012. I'm sorry if some of my edits were curt, but I was finishing up real-life work things in preparation for my trip and barely had the time to devote to finessing these articles. --The Dragon Demands 21:49, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I appreciate that you were short of time. I am struggling to keep up with season 2 myself. I would suggest leaving the pages until you have time to properly address the issues raised - older versions are always available in the page history if you want to work on something that has been removed. I hope your presentation went (or goes depending on when this reaches you) well and congratulations on reaching an international forum.--Opark 77 22:02, May 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * To summarize the general design scheme I'm arguing for, its "why not just put this under "in the books"? i.e. how I just punched up "Currency" (and...wow there were more redundancies in there than I remembered making...), and I don't like seeing stuff deleted outright (being an Inclusionist). At any rate I should make the time to finesse stuff into the "In the Books" sections if I want to keep it (as I did for Currency). Thanks for your understanding, the semester just ended so I'll be able to edit without racing against the clock when I return next week. --The Dragon Demands 22:10, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

House Baratheon
We did not have a House Baratheon of Storm's End article. We had House Baratheon and modified it to show the changes under Renly. Seeing as Stannis has assumed the house I believe User:Gonzalo84 has changed things back to Stannis.

I think we are treating the Storm's End branch as the main one so didn't differentiate it, do you think we should? I would be happy for you to do so but making House Baratheon a disambiguation page will involve a huge amount of link redirecting. Also, I think the Storm's End one should retain the sections on the founding of the house by Orys.

The current House Baratheon lacks info from season 1 and season 2, which when added should definitely mention Renly's rule of the House. Perhaps we could also establish a subarticle if there is enough content (three paragraphs is my rule of thumb for splitting) e.g. "House Baratheon under Renly I". The heraldry images are still on the wiki as far as I know, the page history of Template:Baratheon navbox and House Baratheon should have them somewhere.--Opark 77 09:40, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

IP vandals
Thank you for watching for and undoing vandalism and thanks for the note on my talk page. I have blocked the offending user.--Opark 77 09:47, May 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the message and for undoing the offending edits. I have blocked the vandal.--Opark 77 15:16, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

Shireen casting
Can you provide a source regarding casting calls for Shireen? I had read rumours but nothing concrete.--Opark 77 21:24, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Only the rumors that WinterIsComing.net reported on.--The Dragon Demands 21:28, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Chat
Hey! Since your like the only active user, can you chat right now? I would love to chat with another member of Targaryen blood :p

Apostrophes
Do I? Can you cite an example of me using apostrophes instead of quotation marks? I'm on chat if you want to talk this through.--Opark 77 20:18, May 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just now on the Brienne of Tarth page: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Brienne_of_Tarth?diff=38149&oldid=38148 --The Dragon Demands 20:26, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Rodrik
I read it as potentially being consistent; the failed landing at Seagard could have been part of a failed attempt to attack King's Landing.--Opark 77 21:25, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Seagard is nowhere near King's Landing, its on the opposite coast of the continent. --The Dragon Demands 21:27, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

King's Landing is relatively central being situated at the mouth of the Blackwater Rush, Seagard is a natural foothold for landing troops to get to the Crownlands from the Iron Islands being situated on the shore of Ironman's Bay. If you were Balon where would you have attacked through?--Opark 77 21:31, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * If I were in Balon's position, I'd *raid* the major cities along the coast close to the Iron Islands, not risk an overland attack against King's Landing, i.e. raids against Lannisport and Old Town. Even the sovereign nation of the Iron Islands at its height before the Targaryen Conquest never extended that far east.--The Dragon Demands 21:51, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you think Balon is a strategist. If he were strategically minded I don't think he would have waited eight years to rebel against a stable and well positioned king. Seeing as the show is characterising it as a stupid rebellion I don't think attempting a foolish overland assault is out of the question. I think if his aim was a raid to take a royal prisoner to negotiate his secession rather than to conquer the city there is only stupid rather than completely incredible.--Opark 77 22:35, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Armor vs Armour
I wasn't fully cognisant of that one, I will turn off the autocorrect for it and try to remember it in future.--Opark 77 23:29, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * (sigh) Cognizant. When in doubt, drop the "u" (color, honor) and use Z instead of S...the Z makes it look cool. --The Dragon Demands 23:32, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * sigh the American obsession with cool. Do you really spell it like that? Even though it derives from the latin? Your colonial idiosyncrasies are so peculiar.--Opark 77 00:07, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't being sarcastic, yes "realize" and other words are spelled with a "Z".--The Dragon Demands 01:20, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Userboxes
I've noticed a slight problem with the userboxes. They include a category that is automatically added to any page they are used on. This is because of the way that templates work - asking for a template using the { brackets transcludes the code from the template page onto the page where it is being used. If there are bits that we don't want to transclude then we have to tag them with e.g. this edit. Would you be able to fix up the others to prevent us categorizing the user pages where they are implemented as being userboxes? Thank you again for creating them, I think it is a really good idea.--Opark 77 09:25, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Quotes
As one inclusionist to another please can I ask you to move any existing quote down to a quotes section when you are replacing the lead quote for an article like this.--Opark 77 09:28, May 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, I was trying to do that. But I was hurrying to get header quotes on one character to the next so sometimes I forgot to add a Quotes section to the body and move the earlier quotes there.  Wasn't my intention to delete them.--The Dragon Demands 18:09, May 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries, thanks for your continued efforts. I think its a tie between you and Gonzalo who has come up with the best quotes so far. My ear for them is not as good as you guys.--Opark 77 18:37, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Contributions
I've missed your input the last couple of days since the new episode aired; we rely on your insights. I am sorry that certain users have been irritating you so much and thank you for voicing your concerns the other day. You are a valued contributor and I want to support your continued work here. I am afraid I cannot go so far as to exclude another user permanently solely for that reason though. I think we have to make blocking another user dependent on continued rules violations and to be fair to all our users. I want the wiki to be available to users of varying levels of ability and commitment to get a wide range of editors. I try to encourage problematic editors to improve their work and see blocking as a last resort. I am sympathetic to your frustration and am frequently frustrated by some of the editing behavior here myself. I hope that we can all work together constructively but please continue to let me know if you see further rules violations from any editors.--Opark 77 12:55, May 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * You misunderstand, I would not be so petulant as to leave in a huff over something like that. I was busy tying up end-of-semester work - the seasons change, spring semester ends and summer semester begins, I was just in the library acquiring all of the books I'd need to take back with me during the summer.--The Dragon Demands 02:32, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * In that case sorry if I overreacted. I've taken the deletion tag off Release of Jaime Lannister, I agree that it shouldn't be written up as a battle but we did redlink to it so I don't think we should discard all the work the new editor put into it.--Opark 77 06:14, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes we should delete it. What "work"? All they did was slap battle-box template onto an event which wasn't a battle. Work? You mean a paragraph of writing? Suddenly, we're going to start freewheeling and making specific pages for simple events that happened in episodes? I.e. "Joffrey has the Kingsguard beat up Sansa?" As for red links...there are no red links to that. At least, not now. Even removing the battle-box is insufficient; it doesn't merit its own article more than a hundred other events. Its not even an assassination. There's a vote for deletion up for it now on its talk page, we'll continue there...--The Dragon Demands 18:37, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes I mean their paragraph of writing. For an editor new to the wiki coming in and writing something for the first time is a big deal and we should try to welcome them and encourage them instead of blanking away their efforts without discussion. If a new editor has acted in good faith but got something wrong then try to tell them why and help them improve.--Opark 77 18:26, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Blanking pages
Blanking pages, even if you think they should be deleted, is unacceptable. Please don't do that again.--Opark 77 22:06, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay.--The Dragon Demands 22:53, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Spoiler policy
Just a reminder about the spoiler policy:

The Game of Thrones television series is an adaptation of the Song of Ice and Fire novels but will deviate from them in some areas. In addition this wiki is meant for the enjoyment of watchers of the television series who do not have any knowledge of the books. For this reason, spoilers and events from the books are not permitted on entries on this Wiki. Information from the books can be added to entries once the TV series has reached the same point in the story. For book-specific information, please visit the Wiki of Ice and Fire.

This edit violates the spoiler policy in that it confirms the character is alive as of the fifth book and in that it gives the reader information from the books not available at this point in the TV series narrative. We need to confine our in the books section to material from the early chapters of A Storm of Swords that have been adapted and earlier, unless the TV series has specifically adapted material from a later chapter (e.g. Tyrion relaying that he was put in charge of drains and cisterns at Casterly Rock from A Dance With Dragons.)--Opark 77 18:23, May 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're completely right, I wasn't sure about it as soon as I added it.--The Dragon Demands 18:34, May 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that I agree with Padenton that this edit introduces a spoiler. TV only viewers who feel that Syrio's fate was ambiguous will be spoiled by knowing whether or not he reappears as of the fifth book. Once again the key to avoiding spoilers here, even relatively small ones like this, is not to mention anything at all from the later books unless it has already been adapted into the TV show.--Opark 77 17:06, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure this is just good faith editing that doesn't quite appreciate the requirements of the spoiler policy. Can you see where you went wrong? Can you confirm that you are going to try to adhere to the policy in future?--Opark 77 17:18, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * You haven't replied to this. I've just had to delete a comment in which you clearly knew you were posting book spoilers because you prefaced it with a statement that it was a spoiler. Our spoiler policy prohibits posting spoilers from the books even if they are prefaced by a warning. Please reread the spoiler policy. I consider this a formal warning. Any further violations of the spoiler policy will force me to block you for 1 week, with blocks of increasing duration for repeated violations.--Opark 77 17:54, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry for not responding I thought my continued communication implied that I read it. The Tyrion comment was not a real spoiler and meant as a joke. As for the blog comment, the comment you replaced it with was far better than what I said, and without spoilers, fully addressed the problem (looking up the actors and pointing out that an entirely different person plays that White Walker). Thank you for handling that better than I did.--The Dragon Demands 18:20, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

White Walkers
I've removed the speculative section about their naming. It is not for us to speculate why they were named differently in our articles. If we can find a source that discusses the renaming we should use it. Otherwise it would make for an interesting blog post.--Opark 77 18:23, May 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well okay I guess so. I do hope someday there's an official interview where they own up to why they changed it.  --The Dragon Demands 18:26, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Gaps
A lot of our articles with infoboxes have a misplaced gap at their beginning.

Character with a gap

Gives:

Character with a gap

What we should have is:

Character with no gap

Which gives:

Character with no gap

The reason I am telling you is that your recent edit to Faith of R'hllor introduced a gap. Please take care to make sure there is no empty space between the infobox and the start of the lead.--Opark 77 18:38, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Block
I've blocked you for 24 hours for incivility. Please assume good faith. It is unacceptable to insult another user no matter how you feel about their edits. e.g. this edit.--Opark 77 06:19, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize, it was late and I was frustrated and my patience had long since worn thin on this; I should not have given LovelyChrys this tongue-lashing (which is why I then started a forum post to ask for input on the problem; but I should have deleted my original complaints). You yourself have (more officially) just posted a warning on her talk page about the exact same issues; wacky choice of quotes and a lot of image rule violations. I was angered at the recidivism of it, as a persistent problem. I should have gone straight to the Admins. I'm sorry you think I need a cooldown period but okay. I'll come to you with these complaints next time....also, and this is kind of embarrassing...I'm sorry for my harsh choice of words. You see..."you know you're watching too much Farscape" when you start using Farscape swear words. You know, "dren", "harpooda", etc. So while I shouldn't have said anything...they say "trollop" so often on Farscape that I didn't realize it was an actual word (a synonym for "strumpet" or "harlot"). I thought it was like calling someone a scruffy nerf-herder. Ack. Well I should really leave it to the Admins to deal with this. I'm sorry but it was just that as someone who takes the whole "making a guide to Game of Thrones" thing seriously, the repeated requests to write fanfic or treat images like a private tumblr blog ("my lil dwarf"?) were really starting to grate on me.


 * I should probably also mention this, much to my chagrin: yesterday I was at a function preparing for my sister's upcoming wedding, to pick what food and drink the caterers would serve. Part of this involved sampling their wines...I'm actually a teetotaler, but I made an exception being that it was for a wedding and all. Needless to say I am "quite unaccustomed to wine" and came home after drinking something like 8 to 10 glasses in rapid succession. I fear it "went straight to my head" and I was more than a little tipsy while adding these comments last night, for which I received this warning. I'm sorry, I rarely if ever drink.


 * I hope this leaves no long term damage.--The Dragon Demands 17:51, June 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * No long term damage done. I understand. Thank you for the explanation and the apology. I have lifted the block.--Opark 77 18:34, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems a certain user get's to a lot of us. I will keep the name to myself, but I am sure you both know. Borrowed time. -- 18:39, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. By the way, what happened to all of my wiki badges and points? I had 1800 of them....also it seems I cannot edit pages or use the chatroom still (shrug) Probably it will all be back to normal once the original 24 hour block expires around noon tomorrow.--The Dragon Demands 20:17, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

I will check on the chat room ban thingy. Chrys has been re-blocked. 20:45, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * try now? QueenBuffy


 * That is strange and I can only apologize. I have tried to clear the block log a second time but I get an error message saying that the block has already been lifted. Maybe try one more time tonight but if it is still in effect then sorry again and thanks for your patience. I can still see you as having your badges and 1900 points so once the block resolves hopefully you will be able to see that too.--Opark 77 20:49, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Good evening.

I assume it was you who left the message on my talk? Thank you for this, it's always good to receive constructive criticism.

I understand it is an American series, but I wasn't certain at first on the American English policy; for example, House Greyjoy is Greyjoy, not Grayjoy, so I wasn't really sure. However, as a Briton, I automatically spell things in English (English/British English). I'll try to do this, but I can't promise anything.

Quotation marks I'll be sure to add in instead of apostrophies, were necessary.

I'm relativley sure that I have been putting all book-related information in the appropriate sections? However, thankyou for telling me, I'll be sure to amend this when I can.

As I said, I assume it was you who added the post on my talk detailing this, please tell me if it wasn't.

~

Good evening.

I assume it was you who left the message on my talk? Thank you for this, it's always good to receive constructive criticism.

I understand it is an American series, but I wasn't certain at first on the American English policy; for example, House Greyjoy is Greyjoy, not Grayjoy, so I wasn't really sure. However, as a Briton, I automatically spell things in English (English/British English). I'll try to do this, but I can't promise anything.

Quotation marks I'll be sure to add in instead of apostrophies, were necessary.

I'm relativley sure that I have been putting all book-related information in the appropriate sections? However, thankyou for telling me, I'll be sure to amend this when I can.

As I said, I assume it was you who added the post on my talk detailing this, please tell me if it wasn't.

Thedoucheinthenorth 21:09, June 3, 2012 (UTC) Thedoucheinthenorth (I don't how to link this bit back to me, sorry about that.)

(Ignore my previous two near identical messages, they are the result of publishing errors.)

Formatting
Good evening.

I assume it was you who left the message on my talk? Thank you for this, it's always good to receive constructive criticism.

I understand it is an American series, but I wasn't certain at first on the American English policy; for example, House Greyjoy is Greyjoy, not Grayjoy, so I wasn't really sure. However, as a Briton, I automatically spell things in English (English/British English). I'll try to do this, but I can't promise anything.

Quotation marks I'll be sure to add in instead of apostrophies, were necessary.

I'm relativley sure that I have been putting all book-related information in the appropriate sections? However, thankyou for telling me, I'll be sure to amend this when I can.

As I said, I assume it was you who added the post on my talk detailing this, please tell me if it wasn't.

Thedoucheinthenorth 21:09, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

(Ignore my previous three near identical messages, they are the result of publishing errors.) Re: Formatting
Good evening.

I assume it was you who left the message on my talk? Thank you for this, it's always good to receive constructive criticism.

I understand it is an American series, but I wasn't certain at first on the American English policy; for example, House Greyjoy is Greyjoy, not Grayjoy, so I wasn't really sure. However, as a Briton, I automatically spell things in English (English/British English). I'll try to do this, but I can't promise anything.

Quotation marks I'll be sure to add in instead of apostrophies, were necessary.

I'm relativley sure that I have been putting all book-related information in the appropriate sections? However, thankyou for telling me, I'll be sure to amend this when I can.

As I said, I assume it was you who added the post on my talk detailing this, please tell me if it wasn't.

Thedoucheinthenorth 21:09, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Just so you are aware, your source for "bad grammar" is a not a reliable source for proper style. I would suggest you consider something like Strunks Style Guide or The Chicago Manual of Style. These are more definitive sources for how to properly apply punctuation in the English language. In the hopes of being constructive, you might not want to change ALL single quote marks (apostrophes) with double quotation marks, as they are not universally required nor proper. In fact, a quote within a quote such as, Joffrey said, My father told me to 'always stand tall'", would in fact require both single and double quotations. Dragon831 01:04, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought I said that they should only be used for quotes within quotes, that is acceptable.--The Dragon Demands 01:07, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Lots of respect
Thank you for the templates which allow users to display a House Sigil. It was very thoughtful of you and a nice touch. Thanks :) Thedoucheinthenorth 22:52, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism 4 June
Thanks for the messages re: vandalism yesterday. I dealt with some of them and Gonzalo84 has blocked the others.

Also please remember that the spoiler policy applies to the whole site (including talk pages and the forum).--Opark 77 08:58, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I thought a forum post about "differences between the books and TV series" would inherently carry a warning of book spoilers.--173.2.197.76 15:41, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * It certainly does. Its just that the site as a whole presents itself to readers as being free of book spoilers beyond the point covered in the TV show. That is a firm policy. The post is really interesting and I didn't like having to edit it but those bits I cut are just not suitable for this site. Sorry.--Opark 77 15:46, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well so long as you read it, and the other regulars will just check the History tab to see the original.--The Dragon Demands 15:50, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for correcting my image format on the House Stark page. I was initally concerned at the fact I wasn't sure how to arrange the images correctly, but you sorted that out :)

Thedoucheinthenorth 19:12, June 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * We're going to run into problems whenever we have a lot of photos that go with relatively little text; the images get all jumbled up. There's no easy way around this. We need to keep refining stuff (the Stark page seems okay for now).--The Dragon Demands 19:20, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

English
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Canadian English. I am a Canadian, and that is the only type of English I am familiar with. Calling it "embarrassing" is bad taste and simply derogatory. --Punjabiknight

...I said there were too many "embarrassing cases of aluminium"....we've never mentioned "aluminium" on this wiki. That part was gentle sarcasm about my frustration with British English.

That being said; I'm surprised that there's even debate about using British English. In all the years I've edited on Tolkien wikis, or Tolkien pages on Wikipedia, or if you check out Harry Potter articles on wikipedia...they're all written in British English because the books themselves are British in origin.


 * I* put in the extra effort to write in British English when I'm editing on Tolkien wikis. Make no mistake I do not chafe under this; I write in British English without complaint when I use a Tolkien Wiki.  It is an accepted part of how things work:  If I visit France, I speak French.  If I visit a Tolkien wiki, I write in British English.  But the A Song of Ice and Fire book series is written in American English.  Thus, American English will be standard.

hey
What is going on with User:Punjabiknight?? Why is he snapping at you? -- 05:55, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was baffled by this as well. My running guess is that he's new to wikis in general -- he joined a day ago, seemed irate that I edited text he wrote in "Ygritte" that he wrote, then accused me of vandalizing his "Profile Page"....even though History pages confirm that I didn't edit it at all, I left a *note* in good faith on his *Talk* page about using footnotes instead of in-text citations.  Don't respond here:  I made a thorough writeup on his Talk page with links to the relevant History tabs highlighting which text got changed.  Please check it out.--The Dragon Demands 06:44, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism
Any vandalism like that, that I might miss, just send it to me- I will block them for you :) -- 05:13, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

American English and Ygritte article
I am not pouting, nor am I insulting you in any way. I am simply using the only English I know, and that is Canadian English. I am not an American, and I have no obligation to alter the way I'm use to typing/reading. I've done nothing wrong, and you have no right to threaten me by "taking it up with the admins". So go ahead, take it up with the admins, I've done nothing but contribute accurately to this wiki. Good day.
 * Most wiki's, like this one... go by "American" spelling- because it is an American show. The spelling should be "Color". Hope this settles it :) -- 16:57, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

First off, I've told you before that Profile pages and Talk pages are two different things; you're supposed to post stuff here, not vandalize my profile page (thank you QueenBuffy for moving it). But you're new to that.

Yes, you are obligated to use American English. That's what "it is standard to use American English on this wiki" *means*, that means its "obligated". Now of course, in practical terms, if you're unfamiliar with American English I don't expect you to keep to these standards all the time because you don't know them well, but *in theory* you're supposed to acknowledge that this is the "correct" version, when someone else fixes the spelling to match American English.

But you didn't do that, so you can't claim ignorance or unfamiliarity as quote "the only English I know". As evidenced by the edit History page on "Ygritte" -- http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ygritte?action=history -- you actually *changed it back* to "colour" TWO times, after I had already given the edit summary explanation that "it is the standard on this wiki to use American English spelling, as in the books".

After I gave that explanation, you couldn't claim ignorance anymore...not that I expect you to remember to post it as "color" in every page on the wiki, but that isn't the situation...you immediately engaged in a revert-edit war by directly changing the Ygritte article back to "colour" even after I'd informed you that this wasn't correct. Its not as if you went to the Wildling page next week and used "colour" because you forgot we don't use American English spelling. You actively changed the Ygritte page back to "colour" after I'd told you it wasn't correct. Actively. You put in extra effort to do that. So I changed it back with the warning that you should "stop pouting. Or I'll take this up with the Admins."....and AGAIN, you changed it back. You could have even asked one of the Admins for arbitration, you didn't. This was "pouting" by any definition.

Please stop engaging in petty edit wars. I won't harass you about spelling it as "colour" or other British Spellings....in the sense that I won't yell at you for doing it. But if I edit a page you've added to to *fix your spelling to standard American English*, it is inexcusable to simply revert my edits. George R.R. Martin is an American from New Jersey. He's not from London, he's not from Winnipeg, he's not a block-headed Bracegirdle from Hardbottle. We've already decided that American English is standard. *Actively changing things BACK to British English*, after being specifically warned, is quite disruptive. --The Dragon Demands 17:55, June 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've seen the talk you had with Admin Opark77 on your own Talk Page. I understand you're not familiar with stuff, and I'm not trying to attack you.  Please just don't take our your frustration with edits.  If you just stick to adding content and don't get upset when the spelling gets altered by others, all will be well.--The Dragon Demands 18:13, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

can you
Can you come speak to me privately in chat real quick- it's about another user.... 18:03, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Spelling
Could you please change your description of Canadian/British English as "embarrassing". It's not sarcastic to me at all, and is in fact quite degrading. Thanks.

Thank you. It may be incorrect for you, but American English is incorrect for me. Again, thanks for eradicating the insultive language used.

Adam Friedberg
I think that we should create a tag to mark it as parody.--Gonzalo84 02:28, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Well its half-parody, half-serious quotations about "sexposition" on the show. Yes, I think should make a tab or something, I just don't know how (I did make a linebreak and then a new subheader, "Behind the Scenes: Sexposition", Adam Friedberg is a parody skit from SNL." Other wikis for things like Star Trek, etc. have tongue-in-cheek articles which present extra-canon parodies as serious entries, then leave a note that they really aren't.--The Dragon Demands 02:44, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should present it as a serious entry. I'm not sure we should even have an article on it. We don't have an article on the snl parody or the Simpsons intro. The sexposition stuff should go in an article about sexposition.--Opark 77 09:32, June 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've nominated the article for deletion and have stated my reasoning at Talk:Adam Friedberg.--Opark 77 09:56, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

House Tyrell
Good job updating the house article and good catch with QueenBuffy adding it to the slider.--Opark 77 21:21, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I should have realized this sooner. I'm surprised at myself; for something like a week I'd see the slider "House Tyrell" and went "good that they've added focus on that by putting it on the front page for the new viewers", but the entire time I never checked in on it.  Simply did not make that mental connection.  Ack.--The Dragon Demands 21:25, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's and It is.
Hi. Just for future reference, you had "It's" and "Its" mixed up. "It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is" or "has", as it contains an apostrophe, the dead giveaway that it's a contraction. "Its" is possessive.

Examples...
The dog is playing with its ball.

It's a raining day today.

Categorizing images
At present we do not categorize our images very specifically by subject. We have Category:Image (Special Features) for images taken from the special features. I can see from Category_talk:Images_(Children_of_the_Forest) that there was some confusion over what it means to start a category. Tagging a page with a category that doesn't exist is not the same as starting a category; it is similar to putting a redlink into an article in that once it is done the database will start recording that category tag as part of a list at Special:WantedCategories but the category technically does not exist yet. To start a category you have to add something to the category page itself which is what User:Urbancowgurl777 did. So while you requested the category by tagging your images with it she was the one who actually started the category. I think it is worthwhile categorizing our images by subject but we need to be systematic about introducing that. Is that something you would be willing to devote time to? At present I am working on separating Category:Image (Season 1) and Category:Image (Season 2) by episode which is taking up a lot of my time, I then hope to look at Category:Image (Character).

While we are on the subject of images I should also note that I have nominated all 4 of the SNL sketch images you uploaded for deletion because none of them are compliant with our image policy. We can keep them if you can get them up to scratch. I will check back on them in about a week. Let me know if you need any help adding the required information to them.--Opark 77 16:51, June 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm just working through Special:UncategorizedFiles and I'm afraid that your SNL images are still not in compliance with the image policy. They need a description stating what they show (e.g. Adam Friedberg) and a category e.g. "Category:Image (Parody)". I have nominated them for deletion again.--Opark 77 12:21, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I put it as "Image (In Other Media)" so we have room to grow with future references, i.e. The Simpsons.--The Dragon Demands 02:48, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

oh I see! and THANKS! Sorry, just getting back to your messages now, I didn't realize you sent them. (on other Wikis, it takes to right to whoever msged you)

Books
General rule is that if it's based on the TV series, yes, if not, then no. That's why we have an article on the GoT RPG computer game (which is licensed from the TV series) but not on the strategy game (which is based on the books alone). We also have an article on the Making GoT book (which is based on the TV series) but not the board games or roleplaying games (which are based on the books alone). Beyond the Wall is a little bit of a grey area, because it is predominantly about the books but a couple of the essays do reference the TV series. There is also an argument for making articles for the first two novels, since the TV series has passed their events, and noting the TV tie-in editions and how they adapted them to the TV series, but that may be unnecessary due to the 'differences between books and TV series' page.--Werthead 16:58, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Remember
http://www.youtube.com/user/Balerion300/ --The Dragon Demands 01:25, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Complete Guide to Westeros
Level 1 headers are never, in any wiki because they are too large, even in long articles. This might be the longest article here but look at the Palpatine article in Wookiepedia, for example. I do think, however, that the article should be split and each featurette be given its own article.--Gonzalo84 17:04, June 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well in that case I'll revert the headers rather than split up the article.--The Dragon Demands 19:03, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Jaime image
Thanks for the heads up. I had messed that up, but not at the renaming stage. When I altered the image name in Template:Castportal I managed to duplicate the file extension, hence why it was not displaying; a marginally different careless mistake on my part.--Opark 77 21:18, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Split "The Long Night" and the War for the Dawn
One is the time period, "the night that lasted a generation", and another is the war that took place during it.--Gonzalo84 20:43, June 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Even A Wiki Of Ice and Fire keeps them as a single page. It isn't really worth dividing them into two things, because the war was in many ways synonymous with the event. I mean, objectively, even a single page about "The Long Night" wouldn't have that much content on it, and there would be an incredible amount of overlap between it and the "War for the Dawn".--The Dragon Demands 20:46, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Timeline
I'm not sure about the changes. As has been said many times before, the wiki is about the TV series, not the books, so the dates need to be reverted to the TV series dates (i.e. Robert's Rebellion ends in 281 AL in the TV show, not 283 as in the book). In addition, at no point has it been said that 'everyone is two years older than in the books'. Dany is three years older, Joffrey four and Eddard and Robert are ten years or more older, whilst Ser Vardis Egen is many years younger than in the books. The age differences vary by character and by the needs of the series. There is no set rule.--Werthead 00:18, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * It varies by the needs of the character? Yikes, I was not aware. Well thats why we need to get that sorted out. Actually, I am trying to make the dates match the TV series, that's the point -- I'm confused about what the new TV series dates and ages are, exactly.--The Dragon Demands 00:22, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * I saw your edit fixing up the "differences from the books" section on the Timeline page, thank you.--The Dragon Demands 01:38, June 27, 2012 (UTC)