Talk:Sansa Stark

Rename
Although Sansa's married name is Lannister now, shouldn't the page still be named Sansa Stark? It's what the audience knows her as. Or am I wrong? What's the policy on this? E.g.: Cersei Lannister's page isn't called Cersei Baratheon. Lionheartedcat (talk) 18:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * While it does seem odd seeing her called that, they are married, so it would be "Sansa Lannister nee' Stark". 20:49, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not what I meant. I mean the page should be called Sansa Stark. It does on the ASOIAF wiki, although I don't think they're affiliated with this wiki, I'm only using this as an example. Why should Sansa's page be named after her married name, when e.g. Cersei's isn't?Lionheartedcat (talk) 21:05, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * True, but then Catelyn, Lysa and Talisa's pages are all named after their married names. If anything Cersei's should be changed too...although 'Cersei Baratheon' does sound strange.

How bout' we take a poll and see what others think? That might be the best bet: DO YOU THINK SANSA'S PAGE SHOULD BE TITLED: Sansa Stark Sansa Lannister

Comment: Under that reasoning, Margaery should be Margaery Baratheon and Cersei should be Cersei Baratheon. Keep it as it is.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:04, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * We should keep to how the show itself credits the characters.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:07, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Cersei and Margaery are widowed, Sansa is not.

  TargaryenBlood  Talk Contribs  15:40, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * So is Catelyn Tully but she's still named Catelyn Stark. Lionheartedcat (talk) 15:42, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sansa's article and family tree will not be renamed
I asked Werthead a similar question a while ago: with the most powerful noble families, women tend to use their maiden name if their family is more powerful than their husband's. For example, "Genna Lannister" married into House Frey, trash who are lower than the Lannisters, so she retains the name "Genna Lannister". Similarly, Cersei rarely if ever gets referred to as "Cersei Baratheon", as House Lannister is considered more prestigious (despite the fact that she married into the royal line, her father was basically bankrolling her husband's new regime). Margaery Tyrell continues to be known as "Margaery Tyrell" more than "Margaery Baratheon" after her marriage to Renly, as they want to stress that she's "Margaery of House Tyrell". Eleanor of Aquitaine didn't suddenly turn into Eleanor of England. Catelyn is commonly known as Catelyn Stark, though at times Catelyn Tully gets thrown around, but this is because the Starks are a more prestigious family than the Tullys (the Starks were kings of an entire region once, the Tullys were elevated by the Targaryens).

Book usage, at any rate, continues to call her "Sansa Stark", and we've seen examples of that with other women whose original Houses are so famous that they continue to be referred to by it, again as Cersei is "of House Lannister".

That being said, if the TV show at any point refers to Sansa as "Sansa Lannister" or "Sansa of House Lannister", that would be the condition for considering a name change. Sansa herself of course doesn't consider herself a Lannister, but I mean if...for example, if Cersei stresses introducing Sansa to Olenna at a social gathering as "Sansa Lannister", in dialogue on the TV show, then we might consider changing it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:00, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

I know the books and the show are separate entities, but if this helps its right from the author's mouth. The show customs could be different, but in the books Westeros women aren't required to take their husband's last names. They can use the last names, as in the books where Catelyn is known as Stark formally while self-identifying as a Tully, or they can just go by their original house name, such as Cersei who is never known as a Baratheon. The SSM I linked confirms its not required, and that women don't do it if their family is higher born than their husbands. Stark and Lannister are about equal, at least in the book canon, so there's no reason for Sansa to go by Lannister. She's not required to and she doesn't want to. Hope this helps.

DennisStaples (talk) 04:40, October 18, 2013 (UTC)DennisStaples

In the new episode, when Brienne talks to Jaime, Jaime recalls Sansa as Sansa Lannister. Should we change? --Gladiatus (talk) 04:52, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, why in Sansa's allegiance, it's House Lannister, by forced allegiance. Almost every marriage in Westeros is forced, except in Dorne. Gladiatus (talk) 15:28, March 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Arranged marriage is not the same as 'forced'. Remember how Sansa was delighted at her arranged betrothal to Joffrey before she discovered how much of a monster he is?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:41, March 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Forced also in the more generalized sense that her family didn't even remotely support it, while other "arranged marriages" can be forced on people (i.e. Lysa was forced to marry Jon Arryn, a man old enough to be her father). It's not a simple matter of "all marriages are forced" - there's a line between "arranged" and "we basically kidnapped the heiress of a rival house and are holding her against her will and against the explicit will of the head of her family."--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:54, March 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Just saw the page was changed to Sansa Lannister. I still advocate to keeping it as Stark. I assume the reason for the change was Jaime calling her Lannister, but I don't think that's enough to make it "the rule," especially seeing as his sister was not Cersei Baratheon. The conversation he had was more mocking Brienne than being truth. Also, I don't know the full rules of spoilers on here but I am assuming the moderators have read the books or at least know the plot development and know where Sansa's story is going. With that in mind, it should still be Stark. DennisStaples (talk) 17:12, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox heraldry
I think we should keep both of Sansa's infobox heraldry icons as "House Stark" - yes, even AWOIAF keeps the right one as House Lannister, but it isn't really accurate anymore.

She isn't "within Lannister control" or affiliated with them, her marriage was unconsummated (very important) and BOTH she and her erstwhile husband were forced into it, so I don't think it should really count anymore. Or at least, that it would be needlessly confusing to list her under it in terms of faction alignment (if we had a good image of Baelish heraldry, we might use that).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:37, June 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * Legally, she's still married to Tyrion. The marriage, while unconsummated, hasn't been annulled yet.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:42, June 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * Given Tywin's death and Tyrion's abandonment of the other Lannisters, I think now it should be removed. No one will press that claim.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:28, June 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Then the House Baelish sigil is in order I think.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:49, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is her heraldry House Baelish? Sansa is not a member of House Baelish in any way. Her allegience to Littlefinger is nothing more than a "if you help me, I'll help you" kind of deal. She is no longer under the guise of Alayne and hasn't been since the end of season 4. If you think it's acceptable to abandon the Lannister heraldry then it should go back to Starkx2. (Godswood (talk) 13:27, May 2, 2015 (UTC))

...when she marries Ramsay we'll switch it to one Stark, one Bolton.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:56, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't really answer my question. She isn't a member of House Baelish in any capacity, so why is it reflected in her heraldry?. Her heraldry should be eithet 2 stark (seeing as she's not married to Ramsay yet and the show appears to be side stepping her marriage to Tyrion) or 1 stark 1 lannister. 1 stark 1 baelish makes no sense. (82.40.232.15 17:19, May 2, 2015 (UTC))

I did answer your question; yeah we removed the Baelish sigil.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:18, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

You actually didn't answer my question, but it doesn't matter now that it's been fixed. Thanks to whomever made the change. (82.40.232.15 20:18, May 3, 2015 (UTC))

The Surname debate, round two
In Westeros, noblewomen do not automatically take the family name of their husband, if their own House is considered more prestigious -- this is informal and often a matter of custom.

Hence Margaery Tyrell remains "Margaery Tyrell", "Cersei Lannister" remains "Cersei Lannister", etc.

To this end, we should keep referring to as "Sansa Stark" -- unless the TV show officially switches to calling her "Sansa Bolton" in all major guides and listings.

Hypothetically it would also conflict with her non-consummated but also non-annulled marriage to Tyrion Lannister.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:07, May 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed.

Rape in Season 5
So what is up with the user who edited the page to change rape into "roughly consummate"? 108.30.151.98 02:31, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Picture
Why is the head picture from Season 2 or 3 instead of 5? —ArticXiongmao (talk) 21:32, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Quote
I suggest this quote: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left." --Mesmermann (talk) 23:00, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

Culture
I know this is a stupid nit pick, but is there any need to specify an Andal influence? Sansa is just as much a Northmen as her siblings and she's not the only one who had fantasies of southern traditions (Bran wanted to be a knight, etc). I also think it's clear that given what she went through in King's Landing that she's 100% done with all of that nonsense now. 82.40.232.15 11:31, June 19, 2015 (UTC)

Status
Theon and Sansa's status should be "Alive". It has been confirmed in this interview, among other important topics, that they did survive the jump. Take a look. http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/ Mikividosevicgasparotti (talk) 12:06, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

Brackets in the InfoBox
Why do some of the names in "family" section of the infobox have curly brackets around them? what do they mean? 73.170.64.226 05:47, May 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * I've been told they're a "nod to book readers" and they mean that a character has died in the show. It is a bit odd that the policy is insisted upon but it's not mentioned in any guidelines, especially when non-book readers would have no idea what it means. Abonbon 07:26, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Sansa isn't Wardeness of the North
The title of Warden or Wardeness is awarded by the King on the Iron Throne to his allies, and it literally means 'someone who guards this place for the King.' The title isn't interchangeable with the lordship of a Great House. For example, Robin Arryn is Lord Paramount of the Vale, though the title 'Warden of the East' was denied to him because he wasn't of age. Typically, this title will stay amongst a house, but it belongs to the King to bestow- in this case, Tommen. I don't see any reason to assume that he granted Sansa- a rebel, outlaw, and alleged assassin- this title. I'm removing it It should be removed until there is on-screen confirmation of her receiving this title.184.75.148.90 20:47, June 20, 2016 (UTC)Fr3twork

I made an account to try and change it, but the page seems to be locked. Fr3twork (talk) 21:02, June 20, 2016 (UTC)Fr3twork

Don't bother, the admins are pricks they lock almost every single fucking page forever. It's getting pointless to even try and contribute to this wiki if you're not an admid cos you simply can't--199.212.87.83 21:29, June 20, 2016 (UTC)Ecker


 * The article is locked for new and unregistered users to avoid vandalism from anons and edit wars over stuff the show and the viewer's guide doesn't confirm.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:40, June 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * I've edited the Warden page to represent my objections here, and either this page should be updated accordingly or my edits there should be rolled back. Fr3twork (talk) 21:44, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Lady of the North
She is the Lady of Winterfell and Lady Paramount of the North. The long-term objective and reasoning behind the Battle of the Bastards was to re-establish House Stark as rulers of Winterfell and unite the entire North, and to prepare for the white walkers. In order to do that they had to overthrow Ramsay, the current lord of Winterfell and Lord Paramount of the North. With him dead, those titles are now Sansa's, through her marriage to Ramsay, as the last known legitimate heir to Ned Stark (former Lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North/Lord Paramount of the North), and conquest. Those titles will remain unless she is killed.--Kai200995 (talk) 13:19, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Lord Paramount of the North is a title granted by the King and King Tommen has not named Sansa his Lord Paramount of the North.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:54, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I missed that. For some reason I thought the title came with whoever was ruling Winterfell. --Kai200995 (talk) 22:07, June 21, 2016 (UTC)