User talk:Ser Shield McShield

Fanart heraldry
This wiki only uses the official heraldry designs established in the TV continuity (which includes even things which briefly appeared in the animated featurettes). Because there's more than one way to draw "a lion" or "a warhammer".

Please remove the ones you just added.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:45, January 6, 2016 (UTC)

Just saw this. Nuts. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:54, January 7, 2016 (UTC)Ser Shield McShield

Please get around to removing those.

Also House Marsh's heraldry actually hasn't been established in the TV continuity.

House Hollard's has appeared...though I think the crowns on his armor only have three points; so that needs to be updated. Righty.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:24, January 7, 2016 (UTC)

You need to get to removing all of the book only shields you added.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:08, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the ones I added a couple of weeks ago. Which ones are referring to? Have you noticed that there is a different person adding book only shields?

I do still need to update House Hollard's shield but I need to find the time. But I'll get around to it soon.

Anyway, I am confused on what you are now referring to. Please clarify. Thanks.Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:33, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Early Baratheon Heraldry
Ack, this is a mistake I made; you based it on my mistake so it's not your fault:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Steffon_Baratheon?diff=230356&oldid=217907

I updated the Heraldry to explain this:

House Durrandon had a crowned stag, because they're kings - though not really "because", other heraldry can have crowns in it without being kings, that's not a rule. It was a fan assumption for many years that the Baratheons starting with Orys stopped using the crown, but then re-added it after Robert became king - and thus it wouldn't have a crown in the Dunk and Egg era or for Robert's father Steffon.

The problem is that in the Tales of Dunk and Egg prequel novellas, Lyonel Baratheon is explicitly and repeatedly stated to use a crowned stag as his heraldry.

So apparently that was just a fan assumption. I asked Elio Garcia of Westeros.org about this and he said that (while not giving total confirmation) he thinks that in Steffon's day they still used the crowned stag.

....the problem is that because this was a widespread assumption, even the TV writers seem to have gotten it wrong. When Luwin quizzes Bran on heraldry back in Season 1, he explicitly says that it is a crowned stag now, because Robert is king -- implying they only added it back after Robert became king. But this may have just been the scriptwriters not paying close enough attention, or, because so many fans got it wrong (it was a widespread assumption) they may have even checked fansites - but the fansites were themselves in error.

So for the moment add the crown back...I think...this is officially on the "list of things I would ask the writers if ever allowed to do Q&A" (It's an actual running list). --The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:32, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused - you want me to add the crown back because it says so in the novellas but the only statement about it in the TV series is that it was added back when Robert became king? This looks to be against the overarching rule for this Wiki - that everything is how it is in the series. I have never read any of the books so the only thing I have actual knowledge of is the TV series, which said that the crown was added later. So it always bugged me that this Wiki used a crowned stag for Robert's ancestors when Bran said it was added after he became king. And now you're siding with the books - I think - by saying I should put the crowned versions back. I don't get the inconsistency. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:43, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

(Yes, I check the Recent Changes on a regular basis so respond on your own talk page if I leave a message, so the conversation doesn't get all broken up)

....yeah, the TV show made the mistake of having Bran Stark say that the Baratheons only recently started using a crowned stag.

Tell you what, leave the pages as they are don't waste time reworking it. I'll just remember this on the "list of questions we would ask the scriptwriters".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:33, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

Sigil of House Dayne
My update was based on this photo. What's the source of the version you reverted to? --CrappyScrap (talk) 07:22, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * EDIT: User:Xanderen just showed me the source, which I was unaware of. I don't know which one is more canon, so I'll leave it to you. I kept the tone of purple, however, as it's closer to the color in the screenshot. Best, --CrappyScrap (talk) 16:08, May 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the sigil in the White Book shown in the TV show is about as canon as you can get though there is always the possibly that the sigil shown in the TV series is Arhur Dayne's personal sigil and House Dayne's sigil is the one you found.


 * How about we table this issue and see if there any clarification when the TV show returns to the Tower of Joy and/or possibly shows Ned Stark going to Starfall to return their family's sword. Plus, that shade of purple you used can't be right - it's way too bright.


 * Anyway, we will get this finalized in the near future. Hold tight. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:30, May 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the current greyish pink color is even further away from the sigil in the book (which looks like dark, blue-ish purple). But I guess we can wait and see - hopefully, the Tower of Joy scene is not the last we get to see of House Dayne. --CrappyScrap (talk) 23:07, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Thanks for all your hard work removing bad edits. Please try not to rise to them in the edit summaries - sometimes vandals thrive in knowing they are being irritating and this encourages them. We have to rise above it and show that it means little and less to us to undo bad edits so there is no point making them.--Opark 77 (talk) 21:52, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

True but I don't think they are vandals - I just think they are idiots. Only in the past week, there have been a ton of just poorly written and/or factually incorrect edits by anonymous users. The vandals tend to just vandalize with nonsense. But, point taken.

On a different note, can you help me have the banners and older versions of the shields deleted from the wiki? While you have been gone, we have trying to get all shields as one version - the "main-shield" version - so that if a shield needs to be updated, it gets updated everywhere on the wiki. But the older versions keep popping-up since they still exist on the wiki. We also decided to get rid of all of the banners - just too much work creating them for each house.

All of the shields and banners that are no longer being used anywhere on the wiki have added to the "Candidates for deletion" but I have been trying to find an Admin to take the time to actually delete the files.

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:09, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

Images for deletion
I've cleared the heraldry image files from this category as requested. Thanks for all your work on streamlining the heraldry and making it consistent. Please let me know if there is anything further I can do to help.--Opark 77 (talk) 14:17, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Much appreciated! I already found a few more to delete that I have added to the "Candidates for deletion" category.

On a bigger note, I have taken this work about as far as I can take it at this time. The older versions of the shields are still used in three groups: summary of battles, which I am slowly updating, family trees which are all locked, and a few character pages that remain locked such as Catelyn Stark.

Do you have a suggestion on how to tackle the family trees? You could do them yourself but that seems like a lot of work. Unlocking them for the general users also seems to be a non-solution - they were all locked for a reason in the first place. Is there a third way?

For the character pages, could you unlock or make the changes yourself to the following pages:

1. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Brynden_Rivers

2. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Aegon_Targaryen_(Son_of_Rhaegar)

3. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Wylla (Though for this one, I think the Heraldry should just be deleted given that she is supposedly just a commoner).

4. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Catelyn (I think you should just update this one since there is way too much potential for spoilers).

5. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Assault_on_the_Dreadfort

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:43, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Wolfschuller69
Why did you undo my edit to Ned Stark's page? I thought that the comparison between him and the wolf crest of his house based on his devotion to his family was quite fitting. Wolfschuller69 (talk) 19:17, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Because it is false connection you are trying to make. The Personality sections for these characters are to describe the personalties that the characters displayed on the show - not to try and match their personality to their particular house's sigil. So while your actual words were well-written, it is irrelevant to the overall show. Plus, George RR Martin has stated that a big theme of his writing is deconstructing these fantasy tropes - he thinks most fantasy writing is hogwash such as warriors having no remorse for who they kill, maidens just waiting around for their Prince Charming to rescue them, etc. Then you come along and start trying to connect things are not connected - Ned Stark is just like a wolf, Tyrion is just like a lion - no they aren't, they are people. So I removed your two edits to try to nip this line of thinking in the bud.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:32, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

New White Walker heraldry
The Dragon thinks we need a new sigil for the White Walkers. I'm afraid this goes beyond what I can do with my simple editing skills. Perhaps this is something for you to take on? --CrappyScrap (talk) 11:06, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing - but I'm swamped at work and have family visiting for the moment so I can't get to the design for each least a couple of weeks.

Maybe someone else will be able to take a stab at it in the meantime.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:59, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry but no. The forming in the ground simply cannot be their sigil because the one worn by Night King on his chest template is the real one and judging by how other characters e.g. Littlefinger, Roose, Sansa wear clothing with their house symbol/sigil close to their chest/heart, it is implied that is the way they show their house sigil. Not by making corpses in spiral formation for some sort of ritual HAHA Ramsay 03:41, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

You speak with such authority on the meaning of the symbol on the Night King's breastplate but your only evidence to support your view is that because people wear their symbols, the symbol on the Night King's chest must be used in the same way. That's a really strong conclusion to make for such flimsy evidence.

What do you think the meaning is that each White Walker has its own symbol on its breastplate? How about your thought that the White Walkers did not start wearing armor until after Sam killed one of them? If the symbol was so important, why only show it on the armor? Maybe the symbol is more an insignia of rank, not of its "house". Plus the concept of having a coat of arms for a non-human weapon system created by other non-humans seems to immediately put all theories on what is "correct" on shaky ground. But at least the 7 tailed spiral is something that the White Walkers created themselves and has the added benefit of symbolizing its origin as a species - which is similar to what is shown on many coat of arms. On the other hand, the symbol on the Night King's breastplate seems to have no connection to any other design on the show. Maybe its meaning will be revealed later or maybe it has none at all. In the meantime, don't act like you actually know what it means - no one does except maybe the person who created it in the first.

Regards. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 08:19, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah but to make assumptions of new heraldry for White Walkers, when this was only briefly showed 3 years ago in Season 3 and hasn't been brought up since?? But then again Night King did first appear in Season 4 wearing his "coat of arms" on his breastplate - while spiral corpse in the ground hasn't since been used to mean anything. Just stating things as I see them as the Seasons of GoT go on. Ramsay 12:35, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

...what individual symbols on their armor? Screencaps? Was even the Night King's a "symbo" or just a shape in the armor?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:54, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I'm sure Littlefinger's mockingbird is just a shape in his armor as well. Anyway end of discussion. Have a nice day. Ramsay 14:48, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

As I was looking for a good screenshot of the Weirwood tree with the Three-Eyed Raven and the headstones around it to finally start creating a design from it, I found this discusson of the various White Walker symbols, with screen caps:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/383yok/s5e8_symbols_related_to_the_white_walkers/

Other White Walker symbols worn screencaps:

https://i.imgur.com/lXO4iAC.jpg%7C

https://i.imgur.com/LNqnGfu.jpg%7C

Some screencaps of other White Walker symbols (No Season 6):

https://imgur.com/a/9NqJW

https://i.imgur.com/KOvX0qx.jpg%7C

Finally, what I think is an especially good picture of three of the White Walkers - just for fun: http://i.imgur.com/PA7PYDD.jpg%7C

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:57, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Why would you cross out my comment above? If you don't like then just remove it, instead of putting a strikethrough it. Thank you. Ramsay 18:14, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Redesigned Mormont heraldry
Are you up for it, good ser?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:25, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I am super busy with work and family at the moment so I can't get to it for at least a couple of weeks.

Maybe someone else can take a stab it in the meantime?

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:00, June 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm working on this as we speak. - 12:22, June 22, 2016 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear it! Ser Shield McShield (talk) 16:24, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Shields
Can you give me an example of the file? Are we using the same category for the new ones as the old ones? If so, I'll have to figure out how to find all of them. 01:33, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

All of the ready to delete shields are in the "Candidates for deletion" category in the media section.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:36, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh. Ok.. let me check on that. 01:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm? I've looked here, but don't see them. 01:56, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

That is the right page - scroll down further to "Media in category "Candidates for deletion" " and you will see the shields, most of them with the silver border that is being phased out.

Thanks! Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:58, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * OK all done. It shows they are there, but they are indeed deleted. 02:22, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Awesome! Very much apperciated. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:24, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Way too distant?
I gotta say that I disagree when you say Drogo is way too distant a relative to Jon. I know they never met but he was married to his aunt. Shaneymike (talk) 20:37, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

No one on the entire planet - except maybe Howland Reed and Bran Stark - knows that they are related and they are related only by marriage and only for a short time. Jon could kill Drogo or vice-versa and no one would consider it kinslaying. Hence, too distant of a relation to include.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 03:22, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Admin
Would you like to be an Administrator?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:26, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but I have never been one before so I am not quite sure what would the expectations would be for me.

My "interests" are still working on getting a consistent set of shields used thoughout the wiki - pretty close to getting this accomplished. My next focus is getting the family tree icons updated to match the shields. A lot of them are similar but not quite the same while others, such as House Reed, have never been updated. Also, a lot of the portraits used are a bit out of date but I doubt you would want to unlock those given the amazing amount of times people want to update the profile pics on the character pages. Finally, we also need to figure out a way to better handle contentious issues such as: Is Jon Snow the head of House Stark? and What is the correct title for Sansa - Lady or Princess? Right now, it is just turns into an edit war, which is creating a tremendous amount of work for everyone involved. I think issues like these should be handled head-on - create some sort of disclaimer at the top of the page, note the controversy and the provisional decision made, with a note saying that information will be updated when it becomes available. Maybe that would tamp down some of these edits back and forth. Just a thought.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:34, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Basically you start out by working on the small non-controversial stuff; it lets you work on protected pages like family tree templates and infoboxes and such.

...given that Bran and Rickon were called "Princes" in Season 2, I think Sansa is indeed a Princess now, Lady of Winterfell, and as Princess is heiress to Jon as ruler of the new North/Vale/Riverlands kingdom he just made.

....so both "Princess" and "Lady of Winterfell", and I think we shouldn't stress too much over a situation which is in flux like that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:38, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good - I am happy to stick to the non-controversial stuff. Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:41, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Admin Opportunity.
Hi Ser Shield,

After speaking with a couple of our admins, I suggested you as our possible next Admin. I know it is a hefty task at times, but the invite is there if you'd like to take it. We do trust you, and I hope you dn't let us down-- if you take this positition that is. Just feel free to send me a message on my page. Congrats! 17:29, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Congrats. :) 17:43, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Admin..while I think about it
Are you familiar with duties? Do you know how to block vandalism people or anyone else adding gibberish? We give 3 warnings to those who can't properly upload images. Those are under: {ImagePolicyFirstWarning} (except with two brackets) Then 'secondpolicy'.. then 'thirdpolicy', then finally block for 1 month. Vandalism is automatically infinite blocking. If you have any questions just ask 17:55, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Tywin Lannister
No problem. CorneliusAgrippa (talk) 19:46, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Idea
Just had an idea. What about making a category for pages that says "Image needs brightening"? I am going through so many, but I'd have a lot of help if people could add that category for me. That way I can brighten (or someone else can), the images so they are better seen. This could be infobox or images in the synopsis.. we'd be able to tell which it is. What do you think? Thanks. 23:32, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

I like this idea. I also think we should create a category or a tag on pages that need updating. I have read some pages and thought, "Wow, this page is a mess" but did not have the time to fix it right then and there. Then I forget to go back. Maybe even have a Top 5 list on the home page on pages that need updating - get the rest of the editors to revise pages that don't get a lot of love.

By the way, can you take a look at the City Watch page? I tried to update it recently but Janos Slynt's image is not quite right.

WillNet31's Rants
Dude what Edit Wars? The hell are you talking about? My friend warned me about freak shows on here. I don't know what kind of psychotic Loser. I'm dealing with but getva life pal. This isn't about providing accurate information to viewers who come to this wikia to get information this is about a small, infererior man trying to feel big somehow. Pal you're nothing. I used to torment guys like you to no end in school. Anyways you going back trying to mess with my edits shows a lack of maturity. What's the excuse? No animals can have heraldry? Are you going to take them from the Dragons too?


 * "I used to torment guys like you to no end in school"


 * "My friend warned me about freak shows on here"


 * "Pal you're nothing"


 * "I don't know what kind of psychotic loser. I'm dealing with but getva life pal."


 * "This isn't about providing accurate information to viewers who come to this wikia to get information this is about a small, infererior man trying to feel big somehow." (???)

Why isn't this guy on a temporary (or maybe permanent) ban again?

Lord Sharky ( talk )  22:19, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Read the profile CHUMP. Know to whom you speak. I have no enemies in life for a reason. TRUST THAT! Maybe a wouldn't be such a dick about if you didn't 100 percent rub me the wrong way. Especially when I take a few minutes of free time I have each day to contribute because I'm a huge fan of the show. TRUST me though you don't wanna message me again or start any stuff! Next time you do TRUST mE you'll WISH you HADN'T. My girlfriend is her so I need to jump off the net. Have a GooD day. CHUmp! 😉


 * Ser Shield, I think this is a good example of why WillNet31 should be banned. He constantly makes faulty edits which other users (including me) have to undo. He deliberately starts edit wars and when warned by an administrator, he ignores them. When confronted, he threatens administrators and others by saying he bullied people in the past and saying that "you wish you hadn't messaged me". I don't know how you want to deal with this, but I think a temporary ban should be a minimum for him. I'm not looking forward to participate into yet another edit war with him.


 * Thanks

Lord Sharky ( talk )  23:01, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

After his last message to you, I banned him for 99 years. There were several people that have left him cordial messages coaching him along and instead of taking the advice, he started leaving abusive messages in response. I was going to ban him for 1 month but after the messages today, that would have clearly done nothing to change his behavior. His whole thing about being a bully is just really bizarre - so he is warning us that he is going to bully us if he doesn't get his way? Well, that is the best reason I have ever heard to ban someone permanently.

Now let's stop wasting time on this guy.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:16, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Choose a means of execution to record this. You keep what you kill. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:19, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Haha. Got it. Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:34, July 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * Also a quote would be nice. Maybe something about Ser Terrence Toyne, who was drawn and quartered for sleeping with one of Aegon IV's mistresses.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:52, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Wanted sigil
Just to list the sigils that we still need. I have also given this list to Xanderen so you both can decide which ones you want to make.


 * House Hoare
 * House Botley
 * House Estermont (from the War of the Five Kings featurette in the Season 2 Bluray)
 * House Errol (from the War of the Five Kings featurette in the Season 2 Bluray)
 * House Grandison (seen in the Stormlands Histories & Lore)
 * House Beesbury
 * House Harroway
 * House Towers
 * House Lothston

Thanks for your great work.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:30, July 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * How do you want to divide the labour good ser? - 08:57, July 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * Are you ready to get on this? - 17:08, August 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll be as ready as I'll ever be now that everyone visiting me or me visiting them is over for the time being.
 * By chance, do you have access to the Season 2 Blu-ray? I don't but if either of us did, we could knock out Estermont and Errol super quick. Same thing with Grandison. For the rest, what would be our reference?


 * On a related note, I am trying to revise Tarth's shield based on the offical HBO source but it is drawn with such a worn out look, it is a pain to work with. Plus, I am still only one step up from a beginner user so I've been teaching myself along the way.


 * I've also attempted an updated design for the White Walkers based on a the 7 armed spiral - nothing good enough to present yet.


 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:21, August 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * Just did House Grandison's shield. Let me know what you think.
 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 08:08, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Robin Arryn
You bet. I will work on it shortly. 00:47, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Done (infobox image on his page). Wasn't sure how to fix the family tree image, but here it is: Robin_Arryn_fam_tree_template.jpg. Was that all you need? 01:05, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, do WHAT now? lol I know that shouldn't have confused me as bad as it did, but I got lost. So you're saying all the family tree imags are outdated? Or are they all different sizes? or both? Do they need to be fixed/tweaked into new and shiny looking trees? lol 01:41, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Joshmazzo
Considering he created an account only to leave Cleganebowl messages, he should be blocked longer for vandalism.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:13, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Arys Oakheart image
Would this be sufficient image: Arys ? It's already being used by ASOIAF and iceandfire wikis Ramsay 00:51, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

That is some fan art. There has to be some pictures of Arys from the actual TV show. So no fan art when the real thing exists.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:55, July 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * The only moment that you can say "Thats Arys Oakheart!" is when he's on the boat with Myrcella's retinue, in which he's back to the camera.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:23, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Margaery Tyrell
She never faked being part of Faith Militant, the rose given to her grandmother Olenna was indication for her to leave King's Landing because Margaery as always was about 3 steps ahead of Cersei and she knew that she would be up to no good, also I think Margaery would step in like her father when Loras Tyrell had Faith Militant symbol carved on his forehead instead she willingly allowed it (at least a true and loyal Tyrell would). And also this "The Faith and The Crown are the two pillars" and since Margaery is seen with a crown during 2nd half of Season 6 it implies that she is part of Crown as well as Faith Militant. So there was no faking otherwise it would be her, destroying Sept or High Sparrow and Faith instead of Cersei. Ramsay 01:56, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

"She never faked being part of Faith Militant..." Sorry but you are the only one that thinks this.

I am not going to get into a discussion about the rest of your paragraph, but wow, I think you're really missing the point multiple times.

I don't mean to be insulting but no, you're just wrong. Sorry.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:04, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Then explain why was Olenna Tyrell wearing black gown during the finale and just exactly how did she find out that her son and grandchildren have been "KILLED" by "Cersei"?

And no I am not the only one who thinks this. Ramsay 03:34, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Is English a second language for you? I mean this a non-judgmental question - just some of word choices seem a little off. For example, you said that because Margaery is seen with a crown it "implies" she is part of the Crown. She's the Queen - she and Tommen together are the Crown. There is nothing implied by that. Another example, you use "KILLED" and "Cersei" in quotes - why the unneeded quotes?

In regards to your question about Olenna, you wrote it in such a way that it seems like you are saying that because Olenna is wearing black and knows Cersei killed her family that Margaery was a true believer in the Faith Militant. Is that what you are actually trying to say?

Plus, a lot of the leap of logics in your first paragraph, it just made me think English might not be your first language. If so, not an issue at all, but it would explain why I thought you were wrong on several points.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:45, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

A shield for the Faith of the Seven pre-Faith Militant
Do we have such a shield for those not of the Sparrows/Faith Militant, like the previous High Septons or the new Septon Eustace article?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:21, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

I really like this one: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/File:Seven_mini_star.png

I used it once on the page for High Septon (Before the riot of King's Landing) and started a discussion about it use in the rest of the wiki on the Talk page but nothing was decided.

I think shields should be reserved for houses so maybe this file for the Faith Militant:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/File:Faith_Militant_mini_brand.png

Plus, the added benefit is that these are already created. The list of shields to create is already a mile long.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:34, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you...
...for stepping in and offering your two cents with regards to my liitle disagreement with Eko. I understand what Eko is trying to say about Sansa and Baelish rescuing Jon fron certain defeat but to say Jon did nothing makes no sense to me hence the reason for my back and forth with him.--Shaneymike (talk) 18:33, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I had something similar with him - he has a point but then takes it to an extreme conclusion. What you are saying on the Ramsay Bolton article is so not controversial I don't see why he is so adamant you are wrong abd says things like, "You're making Jon like a GOD...". No, you're not - you're just saying Jon played an important role in Ramsay's downfall, which is not a controversial thing to say. Anyway, I'm going to let Gonzalo deal with him at this point since I am doing this at work and my boss is yelling about some deadlines. Haha. Have a good one.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:06, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

Shaneymike clearly expressed that since Jon was fighting the battle of the bastards with Ramsay, that he was the leader, main character and that he himself led a successful battle in order to retake Winterfell. Correct me if I'm wrong but that clearly does not say (even briefly) what really happened. We all know that that Jon fell into Ramsay's traps firsthand and then all his army followed him through into another trap. The only thing Jon did was beat Ramsay to a pulp and give his brother Rickon a burial in the crypt next to his father. Complete recapture of Winterfell was done by HIS forces + Sansa & Littlefinger's massive rescue party (KotV).

I think we all know what would have happened if Littlefinger and Sansa didn't arrive to save their King Jon. Also this battle fails in comparison to the battle of Castle Black that was also led by Jon midway through to the end - to outline what Jon did and what he didn't. I hope with this you can reflect on which battles Jon contributed to decide the outcome and on which he didn't. Ramsay 19:18, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

House Bolton family tree
Perhaps you can create a family tree for Boltons where

on the left from Roose line connecting to unnamed miller's wife, to the right line connecting to Unknown Lady Bolton and a line above Roose and going over one of his 2 previous spouses (miller's wife or Unnamed Lady Bolton) and leading to Walda Bolton which could be next to miller's wife or Lady Bolton.

Something like this:

|                              |                                        |

|                              ---                  |

Miller's Wife - - - - - - Roose - Lady Bolton       |      Walda Bolton

|                            |                                  |

SansaRamsay              Domeric            Newborn Bolton

I hear what you're saying but that doesn't follow the standard rules for creating family trees. As you know, family trees have been around for centuries and there are a huge set of rules on how to lay them out. One of these is that the husband is always on the left. Another rule is that mothers of his children are just lined-up next to each other on the right. Unfortunately, this wiki's family tree template does not provide for anything else besides solid and dashed lines. There is a huge set of standard symbols to go along with these lines that helps explain the relationship. For example, for wives that have died, an "x" is placed in the middle of a solid dashed line to let everyone know that she died while married. We don't have that option here at this time.

Anyway, I took a whack at the Bolton family tree because someone added a whole second tree just focused on Wanda and that was definetely not right. I'm going to leave it as-is for now, just because it does follow the rules for family trees and I've got about 100 things on my to-do list right now.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 03:27, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

Brightened Image
I have recently added this to our image policy:


 * Dark images need to be categorized with "Image (Brighter image needed)", yet ONLY admin's have the rights to actually brighten the image itself.

Just wanted to give you a heads up, if you see just any user trying to edit the images and tweak them. It could easily get out of hand. There is one user that has helped me and has done a good job. I will give her the opportunity to continue, since I've seen her work and trust her. Anyway, just wanted to past this on. 21:21, August 7, 2016 (UTC)

Cool. Good idea. Lily has been doing good.
 * Agreed, we're really trying to lighten them perfectly. Not too much so that it's obvious, but obvious enough so you can see details and what is going on in the image. lol. 03:26, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

Fiery Heart of the Lord of Light
I uploaded one, so check it out and whenever you can make any improvements you deem neccesssary.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:58, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Looks great! Nice work. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:11, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Free Folk heraldry
Hi! Any chance you could add transparency to this shield? I'd do it, but I don't know how... --CrappyScrap 12:18, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

I never noticed that it wasn't transparent. I can change that later tonight after work. But how did you put the shield together in the first place? Whatever software you used should have a clear or no color option that do it quickly.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:29, August 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * Like the amateur I am, I just used Microsoft Paint. --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 23:26, August 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks! :) --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 17:42, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

Sigil of Astapor
In S3E03, when Daenerys speaks with Kraznys mo Nakloz for the first time, there's a flag in the background. It is visually similar to a symbol that appears on one of the warships in S6E08 during the Second Siege of Meereen. Do you think this is the symbol of Astapor as a whole, just the Unsullied, or perhaps Slaver's Bay as a whole? Can it be made into a sigil? It's a shame there aren't that many Essosi sigils available, as they obviously do have national symbols and stuff. I would love to make a sigil myself, but my editing skills are sh**, so I was hoping someone would volunteer. --CrappyScrap 15:13, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

That's a good symbol to use but for who is still an open question. Maybe just for the Good Masters? I haven't read the books so I don't know exactly how each city is ruled - seems like a loose confederation instead of some sort of official alliance. So I would think that would mean each city gets its own symbol BUT given that we are only using one symbol for all of them now, using the one on the banner seems like a good upgrade from the one we are using now.

For the symbol on the ship, was that supposed to be the one for Volantis or all of these city-states?

Anyway, thanks for posting that scene - very good reference to use given we have only two symbols to work from and until you posted that, I thought we only had the symbol on the ship to use.

By chance, have you seen the ship's symbol on any screen captures? I haven't seen it posted anywhere on this wiki and wanted to compare it with the symbol you posted to see the differences.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:02, August 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * I found this one on Google, and as far as I can see, the symbols are identical.


 * The Slaver Cities are run by the "masters", but I don't know if they're citystates or connected somehow. Regardless, if the Good Masters have one universal symbol, we might as well make it easy for ourselves and use that as the symbol of the three Slaver Cities.


 * Just to make sure, I'll rewatch scenes from Yunkai and Meereen and keep an eye out for anything that looks like national symbols.


 * Best, --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 18:11, August 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * EDIT: Here's another screenshot I found. --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 18:21, August 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks - they all look exactly the same. Now just have to create it.


 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:51, August 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks a bunch! :) So who do you think the sigil represents? If the show confirmed the Slaver Cities were in some sort of confederation, that would be one thing, but... --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 21:39, August 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * My strongest suspicion is that the sigil is the chained harpy of Meereen and that it initially represents the Wise Masters & their fleets (also being the symbol of old Meereen). When Daenarys displays it for her proclamation, it is a show of solidarity so that she doesn't look like a foreign conquerer.  [ Speedit ] ♜  [ contribs ]  03:34, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Eko is Oke
Sorry to have to bother you with this but I'm having a problem with Eko again. I started a thread in the forum and right off the bat he said it was the most ridiculous thing he's ever read and it just kinda snowballed from there. I'll understand if that reply of mine that I deleted warrants a mini-block if not a permanent ban. At the same time though, I feel that Eko was arrogant, condescending, disrespectful and rude. Like Starcross said, Eko could have just ignored it if he thought it sounded ridiculous. Anyway, sorry to bother you with this. If you feel that me losing my temper with him warrants a block, I will accept your decision. At the same time though, I wish Eko would stop following me around everywhere I go on this wiki. It's starting to creep me out.--Shaneymike (talk) 21:16, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Ignore Eko. Don't return his insults. Don't get into any back and forths with him. Just ignore him completely. We all know how he acts and that there is zero chance of having a productive conversation with him so don't even make the attempt.

Also, there is no need to drag any others into this either. I don't know if he is purposely goading you into making a mistake in the hopes that it gets you banned or he is just as clueless as he is making himself sound - either way, it's not worth the time trying to figure out what he is doing.

Just wait him out. He is either going to stop contributing because he does not get any reaction from anyone or he is going to do something so egregious that gets him a permament ban. As it is today, he is sucking-up an inordinate amount of time, especially since he has turned into a tattle-tale. No one likes a tattle-tale so don't turn into one yourself. Most likely, he will eventually hang himself with his own rope (metaphorically speaking - not literally).

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:46, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Aye aye! --Shaneymike (talk) 22:18, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Issue
Hello there

We seem to have User:Darkassassinyt creating fanon pages on this wikia: and

please advise on the matter asap before more fanon pages are created. Thank you

Ramsay 23:15, August 28, 2016 (UTC)

Whenever you execute a permanent block
Don't forget to lock the talk page and user page of the blocked user. I also created a tag for the user page:.

Thanks for the great job keeping the vandals in line. I've been with some personal and work issues these last weeks and haven't been able to devote as much time to the wiki. --Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:36, September 3, 2016 (UTC)

Sigil of House Hoare
Hi! I was just wondering if I could import the ? While the sigil in the House Hoare article we have does not confirm the colors, the design itself is nearly identical. The lack of heraldry to represent House Hoare has annoyed me for a while. Best, --CrappyScrap 14:26, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

A couple of people have imported it before and it is always quickly removed. So I wouldn't import.

Plus, that design has some issues: the chains should have a circular link in the middle like the Umbers, the grapes should not be angeled, and the shape of the shield will need to be updated.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 15:52, September 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Who decides? You're an admin, right? Besides, I don't think the one from Histories & Lore is intended to be accurate. In any case, can't we just have an interim version until someone feels like changing it, or until it appears with colors on screen?


 * This is what it would look like (I finally worked out how to add transparency). I'd say it's better than nothing, but I won't upload it unless an admin greenlights it. Best, --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 17:24, September 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with SSMcS. If we have an "interim" shield for House Hoare, why not every other house that we don't currently have artwork for? I will create a HH shield eventually... have patience. - 19:41, September 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Awrightie. --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 13:19, September 6, 2016 (UTC)

Fanwank
Whoever added Gendry as the heir of House Baratheon should be dealt with as a fanwanker.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:37, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

I wanted to see if they added it again. If only once, I was going to let it slide as over-enthusiasm from the latest rumors. If they come back, then a ban is in order.

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 03:05, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

New canonical heraldry
From the new Histories & Lore:


 * House Blount (Tourney at Harrenhal)
 * House Selmy (War of the Ninepenny Kings)

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:02, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I saw the Blount one -- the Selmy sigil has actually appeared in the live-action one in the Book of Brothers, that's already established.

Moreover;

!!! Finally got House Harlaw and House Drumm heraldry in the ironborn videos. Picking through everything now...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:10, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Could you also do House Hoare and House Hightower?--Bovkaffe (talk) 16:50, November 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * Finally we have a better version of the House Hoare sigil.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:18, November 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * This is great news! Hoare is so complicated of a coat of arms and the previous "best" version was so poor, I have delayed in even starting to work on it.


 * In the meantime, what would be super helpful is if these new coat of arms are named to include the house's name separate, "Hoare" or "Drumm" so they can be found when searching. For instance, do NOT put "HouseHoare" because if you search for "Hoare", it won't show-up.


 * I have spent hours looking for some of the previous references and if I am spending hours looking for the references, that's hours not designing them.


 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:34, November 18, 2016 (UTC)

Okay I've finished watching all the videos now. New heraldry includes:


 * House Harlaw
 * House Drumm
 * House Blount
 * Improved House Hoare heraldry
 * House Hightower (vastly improved, didn't really have before).

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:53, November 18, 2016 (UTC)

We already have one for House Blount http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/File:House-Blount-Main-Shield.PNG --Bovkaffe (talk) 23:29, November 18, 2016 (UTC)

I have all the references to hand in a file on my laptop. - 07:37, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

House Manderly family tree
When you have some free time available, can you create a family tree for House Manderly? I tried but I couldn't figure how to make the character pics appear.--Shaneymike (talk) 14:27, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Is the family tree just Wyman, his wife, and their son Wendel?

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:38, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. Basically, I tried copying and pasting the text from the House Umber family tree and changing it those three. But when I did that the pictures for Wyman and Wendel wouldn't show.--Shaneymike (talk) 19:13, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

I see your problem. First, you have to make a separate template for each individual. Then you make a separate family tree template using the individual templates while "programming" the lines to connect the individuals. It is a bit of an unweidly system, especially because only straight lines are used and none of the standard family tree symbols are available. But it is what we have to work with.

I'll put together the House Manderly family tree together and see if I can explain it better with a real world example.

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:31, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah I kinda figured the part about individual templates but those symbols are tricky buggers.--19:54, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Did you create the individual templates because I just searched for them and didn't find anything? If the individual templates are already created, that will save some time. So if they are already created, what are the names of the templates?

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:03, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

I'm afraid I didn't. :( --Shaneymike (talk) 20:19, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

The House Manderly familytree is now complete. A few things I had to do - create a familytree pic for Wyman and Wendel and created a square for House Manderly. Then created the three individual templates - House Umber was great to just copy and paste - obviously changed the file names to the Manderly ones. Finally, created the House Manderly familytree template using the individual templates and then inserted it in the House Manderly page as well as for the individual pages. Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:33, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much!--Shaneymike (talk) 02:36, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Email?
You have an email address I can have? We need to discuss users and their lack of following the image policy. Thanks. 19:16, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry
Excellent work on the Hightower and Fossoway heraldry, ser.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:03, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks but Xanderen did Hightower - I just created the square version of it. Fossoway was tough because it was hard to not make the apple look cartooney.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:14, November 28, 2016 (UTC)

Fanwank on Meera Reed article
I just rolled back some obvious fanwank on the Meera Reed article by a newb. I had half a mind to blocking them but I figured that I'd let it slide just this once and see if they did it again. I visited your talk page to read what Dragon had to say and I read your response to Gonzalo when he posted a message about fanwank, and I just thought I'd mention that I'm following a similar policy. Also this morning I took the liberty of protecting the Drogo article because an anonymous user keeps adding Season 7 to the infobox. User:Jumperjumper also did that at least once. I'll double-check to see if they did it more than that.--Shaneymike (talk) 18:55, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

I feel like a lot of anonymous users are just clueless - not malicious - so they shouldn't get banned. I agree with protecting the Drogo article - people are already trying to add spoilers so it's only going to get worse from here on out.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:18, November 28, 2016 (UTC)

Heraldry aspect ratio
Hi! Quick question: I was just wondering if the aspect ratio 5:6 (or 400 × 480) is the "official" guideline for heraldry on this wiki? Regards, --CrappyScrap 22:16, November 30, 2016 (UTC)

It is sort of official though I haven't told anyone about it. The squares are 400 x 400 and so if the shields are exactly 400 x 480, then the designs look exactly the same when switching between the two. In other words, sometimes I create the square first and then convert into a shield and sometimes the other way around. By making the squares 400 x 400 and the shields exactly 400 x 480, there is zero difference when converting between the two. If not, then my "OCD" kicks in and I notice the very slight difference between the two.

The other thing I have started to do on the shields is make the top and side black borders exactly 4 pixels wide in black. The earlier versions sometimes are 4 are the left and 3 on the right - almost always 3 on the top. As you can see, I am trying to make everything an even number since it makes it easier to divide.

If you want, I can upload the border for the shields that I have been using which is exactly 400 x 480. I can do that when I get home.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:46, November 30, 2016 (UTC)


 * So I'm not the only one with severe OCD after all ;) I wasn't referring to any shield in general, I was just wondering. Cheers! --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield.PNG 00:31, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

Beesbury and Estermont
How far along are you with the Beesbury shield? I've actually got one finished already... also what reference were you planning to use for Estermont? I wasn't aware we had a sufficient one yet. - 19:15, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I was just starting on Beesbury - glad I mentioned it to you since I'm sure yours will be good.

Estermont - I am using this super-low quality from the Season 2 Blu-Ray "The War of Five Kings" featurette:

I have a good image of the turtle with his front limbs in the forward position. I will work on this one and then move onto House Errol with the haystack.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:46, December 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Is there a clearer version of that image? - 20:05, December 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, no. My laptop doesn't play Blu Rays so I had to take a picture of it while on my TV. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:12, December 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Do you know which feature it's from? I might be able to find a better screencap. - 20:16, December 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's literally called the "The War of Five Kings" - basically, just some narration with maps showing how troops moved around Westeros.
 * Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:38, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Individual templates for Targaryen ancestors
I've started individual templates for the following Targaryen ancestors:

Aegon Targaryen (son of Aenys) - Template:Familytree/PrinceAegonTargaryen Rhaena Targaryen (daughter of Aenys) - Template:Familytree/RhaenaTargaryen2 Rhaenys Targaryen (Queen Who Never Was) - Template:Familytree/RhaenysTargaryenDotD Laenor Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Laenor Velaryon Jacaerys Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Jacaerys Velaryon Lucerys Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Lucerys Velaryon Joffrey Velaryon - Template:Familytree/Joffrey Velaryon Helaena Targaryen - Template:Familytree/Helaena Targaryen

When you have a moment, feel free to check and see if I did them right. I took a gander to see about adding Helaena where she would be on the tree but stayed myself because it looked tricky. I'm going to start working on templates for the children of Helaena and Aegon II.--Shaneymike (talk) 03:21, December 3, 2016 (UTC)