User talk:Ser Shield McShield

Fanart heraldry
This wiki only uses the official heraldry designs established in the TV continuity (which includes even things which briefly appeared in the animated featurettes). Because there's more than one way to draw "a lion" or "a warhammer".

Please remove the ones you just added.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:45, January 6, 2016 (UTC)

Just saw this. Nuts. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:54, January 7, 2016 (UTC)Ser Shield McShield

Please get around to removing those.

Also House Marsh's heraldry actually hasn't been established in the TV continuity.

House Hollard's has appeared...though I think the crowns on his armor only have three points; so that needs to be updated. Righty.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:24, January 7, 2016 (UTC)

You need to get to removing all of the book only shields you added.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:08, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the ones I added a couple of weeks ago. Which ones are referring to? Have you noticed that there is a different person adding book only shields?

I do still need to update House Hollard's shield but I need to find the time. But I'll get around to it soon.

Anyway, I am confused on what you are now referring to. Please clarify. Thanks.Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:33, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Early Baratheon Heraldry
Ack, this is a mistake I made; you based it on my mistake so it's not your fault:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Steffon_Baratheon?diff=230356&oldid=217907

I updated the Heraldry to explain this:

House Durrandon had a crowned stag, because they're kings - though not really "because", other heraldry can have crowns in it without being kings, that's not a rule. It was a fan assumption for many years that the Baratheons starting with Orys stopped using the crown, but then re-added it after Robert became king - and thus it wouldn't have a crown in the Dunk and Egg era or for Robert's father Steffon.

The problem is that in the Tales of Dunk and Egg prequel novellas, Lyonel Baratheon is explicitly and repeatedly stated to use a crowned stag as his heraldry.

So apparently that was just a fan assumption. I asked Elio Garcia of Westeros.org about this and he said that (while not giving total confirmation) he thinks that in Steffon's day they still used the crowned stag.

....the problem is that because this was a widespread assumption, even the TV writers seem to have gotten it wrong. When Luwin quizzes Bran on heraldry back in Season 1, he explicitly says that it is a crowned stag now, because Robert is king -- implying they only added it back after Robert became king. But this may have just been the scriptwriters not paying close enough attention, or, because so many fans got it wrong (it was a widespread assumption) they may have even checked fansites - but the fansites were themselves in error.

So for the moment add the crown back...I think...this is officially on the "list of things I would ask the writers if ever allowed to do Q&A" (It's an actual running list). --The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:32, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused - you want me to add the crown back because it says so in the novellas but the only statement about it in the TV series is that it was added back when Robert became king? This looks to be against the overarching rule for this Wiki - that everything is how it is in the series. I have never read any of the books so the only thing I have actual knowledge of is the TV series, which said that the crown was added later. So it always bugged me that this Wiki used a crowned stag for Robert's ancestors when Bran said it was added after he became king. And now you're siding with the books - I think - by saying I should put the crowned versions back. I don't get the inconsistency. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:43, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

(Yes, I check the Recent Changes on a regular basis so respond on your own talk page if I leave a message, so the conversation doesn't get all broken up)

....yeah, the TV show made the mistake of having Bran Stark say that the Baratheons only recently started using a crowned stag.

Tell you what, leave the pages as they are don't waste time reworking it. I'll just remember this on the "list of questions we would ask the scriptwriters".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:33, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

Sigil of House Dayne
My update was based on this photo. What's the source of the version you reverted to? --CrappyScrap (talk) 07:22, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * EDIT: User:Xanderen just showed me the source, which I was unaware of. I don't know which one is more canon, so I'll leave it to you. I kept the tone of purple, however, as it's closer to the color in the screenshot. Best, --CrappyScrap (talk) 16:08, May 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the sigil in the White Book shown in the TV show is about as canon as you can get though there is always the possibly that the sigil shown in the TV series is Arhur Dayne's personal sigil and House Dayne's sigil is the one you found.


 * How about we table this issue and see if there any clarification when the TV show returns to the Tower of Joy and/or possibly shows Ned Stark going to Starfall to return their family's sword. Plus, that shade of purple you used can't be right - it's way too bright.


 * Anyway, we will get this finalized in the near future. Hold tight. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:30, May 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the current greyish pink color is even further away from the sigil in the book (which looks like dark, blue-ish purple). But I guess we can wait and see - hopefully, the Tower of Joy scene is not the last we get to see of House Dayne. --CrappyScrap (talk) 23:07, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Thanks for all your hard work removing bad edits. Please try not to rise to them in the edit summaries - sometimes vandals thrive in knowing they are being irritating and this encourages them. We have to rise above it and show that it means little and less to us to undo bad edits so there is no point making them.--Opark 77 (talk) 21:52, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

True but I don't think they are vandals - I just think they are idiots. Only in the past week, there have been a ton of just poorly written and/or factually incorrect edits by anonymous users. The vandals tend to just vandalize with nonsense. But, point taken.

On a different note, can you help me have the banners and older versions of the shields deleted from the wiki? While you have been gone, we have trying to get all shields as one version - the "main-shield" version - so that if a shield needs to be updated, it gets updated everywhere on the wiki. But the older versions keep popping-up since they still exist on the wiki. We also decided to get rid of all of the banners - just too much work creating them for each house.

All of the shields and banners that are no longer being used anywhere on the wiki have added to the "Candidates for deletion" but I have been trying to find an Admin to take the time to actually delete the files.

Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:09, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

Images for deletion
I've cleared the heraldry image files from this category as requested. Thanks for all your work on streamlining the heraldry and making it consistent. Please let me know if there is anything further I can do to help.--Opark 77 (talk) 14:17, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Much appreciated! I already found a few more to delete that I have added to the "Candidates for deletion" category.

On a bigger note, I have taken this work about as far as I can take it at this time. The older versions of the shields are still used in three groups: summary of battles, which I am slowly updating, family trees which are all locked, and a few character pages that remain locked such as Catelyn Stark.

Do you have a suggestion on how to tackle the family trees? You could do them yourself but that seems like a lot of work. Unlocking them for the general users also seems to be a non-solution - they were all locked for a reason in the first place. Is there a third way?

For the character pages, could you unlock or make the changes yourself to the following pages:

1. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Brynden_Rivers

2. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Aegon_Targaryen_(Son_of_Rhaegar)

3. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Wylla (Though for this one, I think the Heraldry should just be deleted given that she is supposedly just a commoner).

4. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Catelyn (I think you should just update this one since there is way too much potential for spoilers).

5. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Assault_on_the_Dreadfort

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 20:43, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Wolfschuller69
Why did you undo my edit to Ned Stark's page? I thought that the comparison between him and the wolf crest of his house based on his devotion to his family was quite fitting. Wolfschuller69 (talk) 19:17, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Because it is false connection you are trying to make. The Personality sections for these characters are to describe the personalties that the characters displayed on the show - not to try and match their personality to their particular house's sigil. So while your actual words were well-written, it is irrelevant to the overall show. Plus, George RR Martin has stated that a big theme of his writing is deconstructing these fantasy tropes - he thinks most fantasy writing is hogwash such as warriors having no remorse for who they kill, maidens just waiting around for their Prince Charming to rescue them, etc. Then you come along and start trying to connect things are not connected - Ned Stark is just like a wolf, Tyrion is just like a lion - no they aren't, they are people. So I removed your two edits to try to nip this line of thinking in the bud.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:32, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

New White Walker heraldry
The Dragon thinks we need a new sigil for the White Walkers. I'm afraid this goes beyond what I can do with my simple editing skills. Perhaps this is something for you to take on? --CrappyScrap (talk) 11:06, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing - but I'm swamped at work and have family visiting for the moment so I can't get to the design for each least a couple of weeks.

Maybe someone else will be able to take a stab at it in the meantime.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:59, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Redesigned Mormont heraldry
Are you up for it, good ser?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:25, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I am super busy with work and family at the moment so I can't get to it for at least a couple of weeks.

Maybe someone else can take a stab it in the meantime?

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:00, June 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm working on this as we speak. - 12:22, June 22, 2016 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear it! Ser Shield McShield (talk) 16:24, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Shields
Can you give me an example of the file? Are we using the same category for the new ones as the old ones? If so, I'll have to figure out how to find all of them. 01:33, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

All of the ready to delete shields are in the "Candidates for deletion" category in the media section.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:36, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh. Ok.. let me check on that. 01:49, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm? I've looked here, but don't see them. 01:56, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

That is the right page - scroll down further to "Media in category "Candidates for deletion" " and you will see the shields, most of them with the silver border that is being phased out.

Thanks! Ser Shield McShield (talk) 01:58, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * OK all done. It shows they are there, but they are indeed deleted. 02:22, July 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Awesome! Very much apperciated. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 02:24, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Way too distant?
I gotta say that I disagree when you say Drogo is way too distant a relative to Jon. I know they never met but he was married to his aunt. Shaneymike (talk) 20:37, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

No one on the entire planet - except maybe Howland Reed and Bran Stark - knows that they are related and they are related only by marriage and only for a short time. Jon could kill Drogo or vice-versa and no one would consider it kinslaying. Hence, too distant of a relation to include.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 03:22, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Lord Sandor
The House Clegane navbox lists him as Lord. Everyone who is at the head of their noble house is considered a Lord, even if he was not called so on screen. 10:35, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Admin
Would you like to be an Administrator?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:26, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but I have never been one before so I am not quite sure what would the expectations would be for me.

My "interests" are still working on getting a consistent set of shields used thoughout the wiki - pretty close to getting this accomplished. My next focus is getting the family tree icons updated to match the shields. A lot of them are similar but not quite the same while others, such as House Reed, have never been updated. Also, a lot of the portraits used are a bit out of date but I doubt you would want to unlock those given the amazing amount of times people want to update the profile pics on the character pages. Finally, we also need to figure out a way to better handle contentious issues such as: Is Jon Snow the head of House Stark? and What is the correct title for Sansa - Lady or Princess? Right now, it is just turns into an edit war, which is creating a tremendous amount of work for everyone involved. I think issues like these should be handled head-on - create some sort of disclaimer at the top of the page, note the controversy and the provisional decision made, with a note saying that information will be updated when it becomes available. Maybe that would tamp down some of these edits back and forth. Just a thought.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 17:34, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Basically you start out by working on the small non-controversial stuff; it lets you work on protected pages like family tree templates and infoboxes and such.

...given that Bran and Rickon were called "Princes" in Season 2, I think Sansa is indeed a Princess now, Lady of Winterfell, and as Princess is heiress to Jon as ruler of the new North/Vale/Riverlands kingdom he just made.

....so both "Princess" and "Lady of Winterfell", and I think we shouldn't stress too much over a situation which is in flux like that.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:38, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good - I am happy to stick to the non-controversial stuff. Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:41, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Admin Opportunity.
Hi Ser Shield,

After speaking with a couple of our admins, I suggested you as our possible next Admin. I know it is a hefty task at times, but the invite is there if you'd like to take it. We do trust you, and I hope you dn't let us down-- if you take this positition that is. Just feel free to send me a message on my page. Congrats! 17:29, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Congrats. :) 17:43, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Admin..while I think about it
Are you familiar with duties? Do you know how to block vandalism people or anyone else adding gibberish? We give 3 warnings to those who can't properly upload images. Those are under: {ImagePolicyFirstWarning} (except with two brackets) Then 'secondpolicy'.. then 'thirdpolicy', then finally block for 1 month. Vandalism is automatically infinite blocking. If you have any questions just ask 17:55, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Tywin Lannister
No problem. CorneliusAgrippa (talk) 19:46, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Idea
Just had an idea. What about making a category for pages that says "Image needs brightening"? I am going through so many, but I'd have a lot of help if people could add that category for me. That way I can brighten (or someone else can), the images so they are better seen. This could be infobox or images in the synopsis.. we'd be able to tell which it is. What do you think? Thanks. 23:32, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

I like this idea. I also think we should create a category or a tag on pages that need updating. I have read some pages and thought, "Wow, this page is a mess" but did not have the time to fix it right then and there. Then I forget to go back. Maybe even have a Top 5 list on the home page on pages that need updating - get the rest of the editors to revise pages that don't get a lot of love.

By the way, can you take a look at the City Watch page? I tried to update it recently but Janos Slynt's image is not quite right.

WillNet31's Rants
Dude what Edit Wars? The hell are you talking about? My friend warned me about freak shows on here. I don't know what kind of psychotic Loser. I'm dealing with but getva life pal. This isn't about providing accurate information to viewers who come to this wikia to get information this is about a small, infererior man trying to feel big somehow. Pal you're nothing. I used to torment guys like you to no end in school. Anyways you going back trying to mess with my edits shows a lack of maturity. What's the excuse? No animals can have heraldry? Are you going to take them from the Dragons too?


 * "I used to torment guys like you to no end in school"


 * "My friend warned me about freak shows on here"


 * "Pal you're nothing"


 * "I don't know what kind of psychotic loser. I'm dealing with but getva life pal."


 * "This isn't about providing accurate information to viewers who come to this wikia to get information this is about a small, infererior man trying to feel big somehow." (???)

Why isn't this guy on a temporary (or maybe permanent) ban again?

Lord Sharky ( talk )  22:19, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Read the profile CHUMP. Know to whom you speak. I have no enemies in life for a reason. TRUST THAT! Maybe a wouldn't be such a dick about if you didn't 100 percent rub me the wrong way. Especially when I take a few minutes of free time I have each day to contribute because I'm a huge fan of the show. TRUST me though you don't wanna message me again or start any stuff! Next time you do TRUST mE you'll WISH you HADN'T. My girlfriend is her so I need to jump off the net. Have a GooD day. CHUmp! 😉


 * Ser Shield, I think this is a good example of why WillNet31 should be banned. He constantly makes faulty edits which other users (including me) have to undo. He deliberately starts edit wars and when warned by an administrator, he ignores them. When confronted, he threatens administrators and others by saying he bullied people in the past and saying that "you wish you hadn't messaged me". I don't know how you want to deal with this, but I think a temporary ban should be a minimum for him. I'm not looking forward to participate into yet another edit war with him.


 * Thanks

Lord Sharky ( talk )  23:01, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

After his last message to you, I banned him for 99 years. There were several people that have left him cordial messages coaching him along and instead of taking the advice, he started leaving abusive messages in response. I was going to ban him for 1 month but after the messages today, that would have clearly done nothing to change his behavior. His whole thing about being a bully is just really bizarre - so he is warning us that he is going to bully us if he doesn't get his way? Well, that is the best reason I have ever heard to ban someone permanently.

Now let's stop wasting time on this guy.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 23:16, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Choose a means of execution to record this. You keep what you kill. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:19, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Haha. Got it. Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 00:34, July 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * Also a quote would be nice. Maybe something about Ser Terrence Toyne, who was drawn and quartered for sleeping with one of Aegon IV's mistresses.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:52, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Wanted sigil
Just to list the sigils that we still need. I have also given this list to Xanderen so you both can decide which ones you want to make.


 * House Hoare
 * House Botley
 * House Estermont (from the War of the Five Kings featurette in the Season 2 Bluray)
 * House Errol (from the War of the Five Kings featurette in the Season 2 Bluray)
 * House Grandison (seen in the Stormlands Histories & Lore)
 * House Beesbury
 * House Qoherys
 * House Harroway
 * House Towers
 * House Lothston

Thanks for your great work.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:30, July 14, 2016 (UTC)