Talk:Mother's Mercy

LS?
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/game-of-thrones-finale-mothers-mercy-lady-stoneheart?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_555211&mbid=synd_zergnet

Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things.

D&D said that writing Season 5 "gave them nightmares" because, originally, they were going to end in the middle of books 4 and 5, and it just doesn't have a climax on the scale of the Red Wedding, Battle of Castle Black, or Tyrion killing his father.

While they have shifted gears to instead adapt most of both books into one season...logically, what else could provide such a shocking climax as they need? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:00, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Reports of a "Hooded Woman" in the finale from IMDB were later vehemently denied as a hoax.

...and most curiously of all, a Wikia Staff member (Mighty No.9) some months ago contacted me directly on here and said to add an actress named "Mary Jordan" to the season finale credits....never contacted me again. Was this a hoax, or misinformed? Recasting? Fake name to hide identity?

...maybe we should check for credits for side characters like the BWB and Freys.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:07, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

"What else could provide such a shocking climax as they need?" Come on... For the Watch, for once, and not only that. But that's the main one, probably, the big cliffhanger.

LSH is gone. People should've really accepted it by now... —ArticXiongmao (talk) 14:44, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

'NOTHING IS OVER! *NOTHING*! YOU JUST DON'T TURN IT OFF!'

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:10, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Leaks
The morons over at WICnet have reached a new low - spoiler pics from the episode leaked out on the internet and they posted it as a news item. Not just book spoilers, TV show-only death spoilers. Yikes.

WICnet's revolving door of editors-in-chief continued this season; after the original writing staff revolved last July after Season 4 ended, they went through about two head editors before Christmas. The new editor in chief apparently quit the site after around episode 3 "High Sparrow". Chaos over there, pure chaos.

Delete these photos if they are posted, block any info from them. WICnet remains blacklisted as a news source due to plagiarism.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:59, June 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * That's unfortunate. Then again, WiC is in decline... not surprising that they're resorting to shock tactics to draw in readers.--The White Winged Fury 14:51, June 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well "WICnet" just became WatchersOnTheWall.com (the entire original writing staff mutinied en masse, eight or so people, to make WOTW), and is separate entirely from "Fansided's WinterIsComing.net". Oh god they even still do the beer-flavor testing. I mean...soundtracks are one thing guys, but I can't TASTE the beer through the computer screen! I have to rely on your word for it! I mean showcasing them is one thing, but why do I want to watch them making drink? Well they had recipes but...how the heck do you have a "Lannister-flavored beer" that is "inspired" by the show? Yet no one makes a knockoff brand of "Arbor Gold" or "Dornish Red" wine? I mean the Harry Potter franchise people knew to make "Butterbeer" knockoff root beer stuff. Crud.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:06, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

Here we go
Alright boys (and girls), here we go. The eyes of the world are on the Season 5 finale. We've been pulling in about 1 million daily site views as the day-after spike in ratings on Mondays (drops off a bit over the next week then roars back with each new episode). Last week we reached over 2 million again. Season 4 finale was 3.2 million.

The enemy is at the gates. Everyone will be pouring into the wiki for the finale.

Maintain no illusions that all of us are going to make it through the night alive.

Good luck, everyone. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:11, June 14, 2015 (UTC)


 * Brothers! Tonight we fight! And when the sun rises GoT Wiki will stand!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:14, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

What I think I'll do
...this episode has left me stunned at how ineptly Benioff and Weiss treated the adaptation. Retroactively, it reflects on what an awful decision it was to cram two books into a single season. Rather than "dragging out" the storyline, they are making it rushed and semi-coherent.

The first half of Season 4 was pretty good for Stannis at the Wall, and the Bolton storyline, even Sansa to a degree. Then from episode 6 onwards....they basically condensed an entire novel of storyline into only five episodes. "Stannis rallying the North" is an ongoing storyline. Instead the Manderlys, Mormonts, Glovers, they're all gone. The Boltons seem invincible in comparison.

Drastic changes would be one thing but they seem to just skip over things.

The "For the Watch" moment was worst of all - the Wall storyline was good, but when it overlaps with the Bolton storyline it was bad (same thing happened to Stannis's storyline when it left the Wall).

In the novels, the Watch grudgingly tolerates letting the wildlings through the Wall. Then Ramsay sends a letter to Jon at Castle Black assuming that his wife and his Reek fled there, demanding that he will attack Castle Black if Jon does not surrender them. Realizing he can't defend the Wall while the Boltons are tearing the North apart, Jon finally decides he needs to do something and outright break his oath of neutrality, and asks any who fill follow to ride with him south to war to defeat the Boltons. THEN and only then do they turn on him for explicitly wanting to break their oath of neutrality.

The TV show just has them stab him over the wildlings? WHY? This is dream logic, events just falling into place because they're out of sequence chunks from a different narrative. Why stab Jon NOW of all times? After they already let the wildlings in? After showing Jon reading through letters?

I strongly suspect that Jon's storyline was heavily rewritten. We have vague reports of this.

The Dorne plotline was an embarrassment. There's no sugar-coating that. It barely appeared, needlessly introduced new characters better held until next season, and what little time was devoted to it might have been better spent revisiting the already established plotlines more thoroughly.

....and on top of all of this, WHY have Ellaria kill Myrcella now? This makes no sense. Doran wants to ensure peace with the Lannisters for now, they've already wrecked Ellaria as a character, and storywise....why not just turn the ship around to get an antidote? Bad editing implies they're still close.

But all of these problems, "anything the Bolton plot touches which was hyper-condensed" and "what little we rushed in about Dorne at the last minute"...all stem from the stupid conviction that they could cram two books into one season. What did they think would happen?

I've been gaping at it for over four hours now, not editing anything.

I have lost what little remaining faith I had in Benioff and Weiss's writing abilities. Was this HBO forcing their hand?

And the pressure of being at the top of the wiki heap. When you're Number One, man, they're always gunning for ya, they're always gunning for ya.

The Greyjoys just haven't appeared since Season 2, did not appear at all this season, the Dorne storyline was hyped but turned out to be the weakest....the North storyline (which now includes not only the North, but Stannis, and the Wall, and the TV show added Sansa and Brienne into the mix)...no one understands. They wanted the "For the Watch" moment but didn't pause to think about setting it up well. No one understands.

....I'm not editing now and I don't know if I will for a while. The show now has massive problems which I can't easily overlook anymore. I'm going out, and may be some time.

I think what I'll do is, I'll pretend I'm one of those deaf-mutes.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:43, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

I think it was a great episode. I've also outlined many times how I believe it would be impossible to adapt those two books any other way (the only better alternative to what we got would be a longer season... which just wasn't going to happen.) —ArticXiongmao (talk) 10:41, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

I'm back. I remembered who I am. What is dead may never die.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:37, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Characters who apparently died in this episode?
Officially.

Yup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHMuqH7yOQc

"Behind the Episode" is pretty straightsforward.  DRAEVAN13  02:44, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

Is Myrcella dead? I don't think she is dead because Maggy also foreshadowed that she would wear a golden crown. She never wore a crown so...


 * I think she meant "crowns" as in hair colour, not that all of them will wear an actually crown. Up for interpretation though. I'm not sure the show even cares about this stuff anymore. - Son Of Fire (talk) 21:50, June 15, 2015 (UTC)


 * What a truly terrible storyline though. Spend an entire season on the plotline and the outcome is just for one character death that doesn't equate to anything. Just laughable. — Sharp Blades (talk) 21:55, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

Jon, Stannis and Myrcella are NOT dead.


 * Yup. They're officially dead as per the HBO Official Viewer's Guide and many interviews. Jon will probably come back, but he's, as of now, dead. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 11:48, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Myrcella isn't dead because Maggy's prophecy foreshadowed that Cersei's children will wear golden crown. Myrcella newer wore a crown yet, so she isn't dead. It willbecome clear in season 6 so, please wait and then write something certain about their fate.


 * Begone with you uncultured noob. — Sharp Blades (talk) 11:53, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * We need to get an Admin to lock these character pages, this is getting absurd.  DRAEVAN13 

11:54, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah no. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a literal crown, she could have been indicating her blonde hair. Or perhaps they've forgotten their own storyline, but either way, it's been confirmed by both the website and from the cast/creators' own mouths. Cast/crew/official source indication has priority over whatever canon may imply. Also please sign your comments so it doesn't look like someone else is saying it.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead

— Sharp Blades (talk) 12:05, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Cast and creators can say anything in order not to reveal spoilers so their information mustn't be belived. Especially about the season 6.

They're playing games with us but I think we should list like Myrcella as "apparently dead" unless proven otherwise. I don't know if they'd stoop so low as to lie in the Viewer's Guide but for the moment we should probably go along with that unless proven otherwise.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:35, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Old Town?
Some words are wrong. I know that i am not the best english speaker in the world, but i really want to change the name of Old town and Citedal in the summary of what happens at the wall 194.255.125.205 09:28, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

"Oldtown", spelled as one word. "The Citadel" is located in Oldtown.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:37, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

First appearance
There is Robert Strong listed as a first appearance. 1. There is no Robert Strong, it is ser Gregor Clegane who died in the books and was "zombified" as Robert (headless) but he never died in the TV series, and he is healed albeit weirdly. He is still Ser Gregor and that doesnt change, so delete that. 2. Even if it were to be Robert (which he is not) he wasnt named on screen and thus we shouldnt name him based on the books. Things change Dont edit if you dont know what you're doing5.170.40.242 18:55, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Firsts (and Ser Robert Strong), I don't think Qyburn ever mentioned his name being Robert Strong. Should we still assume it's him? I think for now it's more safe to assume that he's a "resurrected Gregor Clegane", not a separate knight (that is allegedly Gregor Clegane). Reddyredcp (talk) 18:57, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

Gregor Clegane never died in the TV Show (unlike in the novels where his head was sent to Dorne). This, it is safe to say that the "Robert Strong" character is cut (in the books it is really implied he is ser Gregor) therefore the Show probably didnt bother killing him and then resurrecting him to introduce the change, in order to keep things simple. Thus, we know its the mountain and there is no such thing as Robert Strong

Westeros.org speculation & wrong sections
I fixed the "Looking ahead to Season 6", which essentially was a copy & paste of Elio & Linda's remarks. It's just their opinion. Shall I include four paragraphs about my opinion? Or from every GoT critic? TDD, really, I insist, stop including your opinion articles into the wiki. This is how D&D wanted to tell the story, as they themselves have stated; thinking otherwise (and nothing it in an encyclopedia!) is at best speculation and, to be fair, essentially a conspiracy theory.

Cutting their subjective statements, what remains is nothing but a Note, so that's where I put it. As for "Adapting two books into one TV season: the Stannis/Bolton storyline in the North", the parts explaining the differences are now in the "Differences" page for the epidode (though most of them already were), and the rest is fine, but it's not about the episode at all, but about the whole season. The Season 5 page already has a section on adaptation, which was unfinished until the season ended; this text (about how many storylines were condesned due to the decision to adapt both books into a single season) completes that section. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 21:17, June 16, 2015 (UTC)